Police abuse

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  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,828
    tempo_n_groove said:
    pjl44 said: the
    PJNB said:
    I have asked what I consider good local police officers that are friends and family members of mine the same question as to what I am going to ask here and have never really gotten a good response. If there are only a few bad apples in the police force why are the good ones allowing the bad ones to tarnish their name and drag them in the mud too? Why are they not policing each other and calling the bad cops out more often? In my field of work if someone is not doing their job safely or putting someones else's life on the line that shit is called out immediately and the problem is fixed one way or another whether through retraining or suspension/being fired. Why are cops not able to control their own? It honestly baffles me. 
    I think the biggest part is the fraternity that comes from the union. It permeates everything - for example, I have an LEO buddy who has gotten out of drunk driving more than once by flashing his badge to the cop who pulled him over. That's the subtext behind the thin blue line iconography - from flags to bumper stickers.

    Reason published a good opinion piece on this topic today.

    https://reason.com/2020/06/03/its-time-to-bust-police-unions/?amp&__twitter_impression=true
    We call that "Professional Courtesy".  They get to park wherever, speed wherever, drink and drive.  I get it.

    Some states a cop will flash a badge and it means nothing though.  My cousin tried that in Virginia and still got a ticket.
    I don’t believe it’s that common. I think professional courtesy is common for a small speeding ticket, but that’s about it. For one, you can’t flash your badge in a parking ticket because you’re not there most of the time. While I know it does happen, I don’t think it’s the norm to excuse drunk driving, excessive speeding, etc. A rolling stop, going 73 in a 65 zone,  yeah you would almost always get off. I don’t see anything wrong with that, that’s a gray area where you have about a 50/50 chance of getting a warning anyway. 
    Letting a cop off on a wreckless driving or DUI  though, yeah that’s a bit much of a common courtesy for me.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    mace1229 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    pjl44 said: the
    PJNB said:
    I have asked what I consider good local police officers that are friends and family members of mine the same question as to what I am going to ask here and have never really gotten a good response. If there are only a few bad apples in the police force why are the good ones allowing the bad ones to tarnish their name and drag them in the mud too? Why are they not policing each other and calling the bad cops out more often? In my field of work if someone is not doing their job safely or putting someones else's life on the line that shit is called out immediately and the problem is fixed one way or another whether through retraining or suspension/being fired. Why are cops not able to control their own? It honestly baffles me. 
    I think the biggest part is the fraternity that comes from the union. It permeates everything - for example, I have an LEO buddy who has gotten out of drunk driving more than once by flashing his badge to the cop who pulled him over. That's the subtext behind the thin blue line iconography - from flags to bumper stickers.

    Reason published a good opinion piece on this topic today.

    https://reason.com/2020/06/03/its-time-to-bust-police-unions/?amp&__twitter_impression=true
    We call that "Professional Courtesy".  They get to park wherever, speed wherever, drink and drive.  I get it.

    Some states a cop will flash a badge and it means nothing though.  My cousin tried that in Virginia and still got a ticket.
    I don’t believe it’s that common. I think professional courtesy is common for a small speeding ticket, but that’s about it. For one, you can’t flash your badge in a parking ticket because you’re not there most of the time. While I know it does happen, I don’t think it’s the norm to excuse drunk driving, excessive speeding, etc. A rolling stop, going 73 in a 65 zone,  yeah you would almost always get off. I don’t see anything wrong with that, that’s a gray area where you have about a 50/50 chance of getting a warning anyway. 
    Letting a cop off on a wreckless driving or DUI  though, yeah that’s a bit much of a common courtesy for me.
    If a cop is drunk and crashes into someone else the odds of him getting help are reduced by whom was at the scene first, I know that.
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,809
    I'm very anti drunk driving but would think that cops let cops off a lot.
    That is based on nothing beyond what I know of about 5 cops/sheriffs I've known over the years.
    They would have done it 100 out of 100 times absent any injury or past history 
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  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,527
    tempo_n_groove said:
    pjl44 said:
    We have some cosponsors 


    You can sue for a wrongful death case, no?

    I hear about departments being sued all the time so I am not sure what difference this would bring about rather than people suing because they think their rights are being abused or were rather.

    What am I missing?
    You can sue but qualified immunity makes it nearly impossible to win, so few do. Here's a Forbes article that gets into it.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/06/03/new-bill-would-abolish-qualified-immunity-make-it-easier-to-sue-cops-who-violate-civil-rights/amp/?subId3=xid:fr1591220971806bbe&__twitter_impression=true
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    pjl44 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    pjl44 said:
    We have some cosponsors 


    You can sue for a wrongful death case, no?

    I hear about departments being sued all the time so I am not sure what difference this would bring about rather than people suing because they think their rights are being abused or were rather.

    What am I missing?
    You can sue but qualified immunity makes it nearly impossible to win, so few do. Here's a Forbes article that gets into it.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/06/03/new-bill-would-abolish-qualified-immunity-make-it-easier-to-sue-cops-who-violate-civil-rights/amp/?subId3=xid:fr1591220971806bbe&__twitter_impression=true
    Yes, this is about the officer and not about the department.  Individuals sue the department all the time.  I am wondering if the people fronting this bill want the onus on the officer and let him defend for himself and absorb all the financial responsibility.

    It would be a smart move by the government.  Get the people what they want and absolve themselves of any monetary penalties from defendants.

    Thoughts?
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Just about an hour ago, police officers shove man in Niagara Square to the ground (WARNING: Graphic). 


    https://mobile.twitter.com/WBFO/status/1268712530358292484?s=20
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    edited June 2020
    dignin said:
    Just about an hour ago, police officers shove man in Niagara Square to the ground (WARNING: Graphic). 


    https://mobile.twitter.com/WBFO/status/1268712530358292484?s=20

    WTF?  The cop who shoved him and several others just keep on walking by.  Business as usual? 

    Any word on if the guy is OK?

    According this this article, the cops who visibly shoved the man claims he "tripped and fell".    Liar.
    Post edited by brianlux on
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  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,809
    It didn't seem like that tough of a shove...but omg, that sound.
    I hope he is ok.  That is awful.  
    I'm sorry I watched that, yuck.


    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • cutz
    cutz Posts: 12,235
    dignin said:
    Just about an hour ago, police officers shove man in Niagara Square to the ground (WARNING: Graphic). 


    https://mobile.twitter.com/WBFO/status/1268712530358292484?s=20


    Tripped and fell?

    image

    https://mobile.twitter.com/BertDyster/status/1268716705980788740
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    brianlux said:
    dignin said:
    Just about an hour ago, police officers shove man in Niagara Square to the ground (WARNING: Graphic). 


    https://mobile.twitter.com/WBFO/status/1268712530358292484?s=20

    WTF?  The cop who shoved him and several others just keep on walking by.  Business as usual? 

    Any word on if the guy is OK?
    The cop who shoved him attempted to help and looked concerned but was pushed on.

    The cops were yelling that he was bleeding from his ears and it looked like a pool of blood was forming so I don't think he is well at all. Im searching around to find more info but nothing yet.

    Fucking scary.
  • Mike D88
    Mike D88 Tampa Posts: 767
    edited June 2020
    Here's police beating another journalist:


    And here's police shooting at cars stopped in traffic:

    Folks, we have serious a problem, and if you think it's "a few bad apples," kindly go fuck yourself.

    EDIT: I just keep finding these. It never stops. This is systemic.

    Post edited by Mike D88 on
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  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,527
    edited June 2020
    tempo_n_groove said:
    pjl44 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    pjl44 said:
    We have some cosponsors 


    You can sue for a wrongful death case, no?

    I hear about departments being sued all the time so I am not sure what difference this would bring about rather than people suing because they think their rights are being abused or were rather.

    What am I missing?
    You can sue but qualified immunity makes it nearly impossible to win, so few do. Here's a Forbes article that gets into it.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/06/03/new-bill-would-abolish-qualified-immunity-make-it-easier-to-sue-cops-who-violate-civil-rights/amp/?subId3=xid:fr1591220971806bbe&__twitter_impression=true
    Yes, this is about the officer and not about the department.  Individuals sue the department all the time.  I am wondering if the people fronting this bill want the onus on the officer and let him defend for himself and absorb all the financial responsibility.

    It would be a smart move by the government.  Get the people what they want and absolve themselves of any monetary penalties from defendants.

    Thoughts?
    If a bad cop violates someone's civil rights, I would much rather his assets be at risk than taxpayer dollars. Good cops should be in favor of that, too, right? Why would you want department resources at risk for the Derek Chauvins of the world? If it's the fraternity thing again, though, the union could always stick their neck out. Think that would happen?

    Seems like an opportunity for some kind of liability insurance if someone wants to offer it. Like doctors with malpractice insurance. 
    Post edited by pjl44 on
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    FYI some amount of blood in both the twitter video and pic in the spoiler. Nothing too gruesome but I hid it just in case some did not want to see it. 

    I wonder if the pic in the spoiler has more of a story where they homeless guy in the wheelchair was threatening the cops and deserved a "non lethal" round to the head. I also find it remarkable in the twitter vid that one cop had the decency to stop and check on the 75 year old  guy that fell from the shove was pushed on by another cop. The police issued a statement before they knew the video existed that this man tripped and fell. Now two cops are suspended. It seems to me he was being kind bringing a riot helmet back to the force and was mad they had their batons ready and he pointed at it. 




  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    PJNB said:
    FYI some amount of blood in both the twitter video and pic in the spoiler. Nothing too gruesome but I hid it just in case some did not want to see it. 

    I wonder if the pic in the spoiler has more of a story where they homeless guy in the wheelchair was threatening the cops and deserved a "non lethal" round to the head. I also find it remarkable in the twitter vid that one cop had the decency to stop and check on the 75 year old  guy that fell from the shove was pushed on by another cop. The police issued a statement before they knew the video existed that this man tripped and fell. Now two cops are suspended. It seems to me he was being kind bringing a riot helmet back to the force and was mad they had their batons ready and he pointed at it. 




    I just noticed the old guy that got pushed had his cell phone out and was most likely filming the whole time.

    release that audio.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    The guy w the baton gave him a push and was by no means bad, the end result is bad though.

    I have a hard time with this one.
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    tempo_n_groove said:
    The guy w the baton gave him a push and was by no means bad, the end result is bad though.

    I have a hard time with this one.
    Ya they probably do not want any up close interaction with any protesters like this since they want to ensure the safety of all of the officers. This one is a no brainer though with buddy just coming up to give a helmet back. Interested to see how someone lost a helmet like that and why someone from the back needed to come to the front and make a shove. I would guess if that shove was against you or I we would not even have fallen over but all actions have consequences and if I did a shove like this to someone and they unfortunately passed away (this guy did not) or was seriously hurt I would be held accountable for the result not just the action. I have seen it happen a handful of times in my area where small scraps have killed people or severely from head injuries and falls. Some of those people are still in jail. 
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    tempo_n_groove said:
    The guy w the baton gave him a push and was by no means bad, the end result is bad though.

    I have a hard time with this one.
    It was more the dude in the back of baton guy who didn't want baton guy to help either.

    Regardless it doesn't take much to knock over an old man

  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,145
    Smellyman said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    The guy w the baton gave him a push and was by no means bad, the end result is bad though.

    I have a hard time with this one.
    It was more the dude in the back of baton guy who didn't want baton guy to help either.

    Regardless it doesn't take much to knock over an old man

    There’s reasons why the elderly are a protected class when it comes to crime. They’re more vulnerable but since when do we care about the vulnerable and least fortunate amongst us?
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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,055
    the buffalo cop film gave me nightmares.

    they are reporting that he will likely make a full recovery. knowing what i know about medicine, a TBI, depending on the type, can be a death sentence for a 75 year old. if he recovers he will probably spend the rest of his life learning how to walk again. he had blood coming from his ear and his left side immediately went into decorticate posturing, which is an objective sign of severe brain injury. this guy will most likely be disabled for life if he does not die. that cop should be arrested for attempted murder and never work again.
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Smellyman said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    The guy w the baton gave him a push and was by no means bad, the end result is bad though.

    I have a hard time with this one.
    It was more the dude in the back of baton guy who didn't want baton guy to help either.

    Regardless it doesn't take much to knock over an old man

    There’s reasons why the elderly are a protected class when it comes to crime. They’re more vulnerable but since when do we care about the vulnerable and least fortunate amongst us?
    He's elderly.  Why the fuck are you out there in the front lines?  

    I get wanting to make a change but man, don't put yourself in a compromised situation.  Going to the front line of officers is just that.

    Also if you watch the video the baton guy pushes the old man, not the officer from the back.

    With all this being said I would think you'd have more compassion towards the elderly though.
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