Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

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  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Biden
    https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1267278651583848448

    Good one...it is about time someone spelled this out clearly.  The confederate flag represents treason and the enemy of the US
    They're doing good work. 


    www.myspace.com
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Biden

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/after-minneapolis-can-trumps-law-and-order-strategy-work/


    Trump Has Returned To His 2016 Law-And-Order Rhetoric, But It Might Not Sit So Well In 2020

    President Trump Holds Press Conference In White House Rose Garden

    WIN MCNAMEE / GETTY IMAGES

    When President Trump delivered his inaugural address in 2017, it was in an unfamiliar style. Gone was the jokey off-handedness of Trump-on-the-trail. In a stilted, elegiac tone the freshly-minted president spoke of “rusted-out factories scattered like tombstones” and “young and beautiful students deprived of knowledge.” The content of the speech was familiar, though: Trump would bring America back from the brink. “This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.” President George W. Bush called it “some weird shit.”

    Trump ran on law and order — “I am the law and order candidate” he helpfully explained — even if empirical evidence suggested nothing was wrong with the law and order Americans were already living under. The country’s rates of violent crime were trending downward when he ran — falling 51 percent between 1993 and 2018 — and the economy was churning along, but Trump tapped into some Americans’ dissatisfaction with the status quo. Law and order was about the restoration of a certain social configuration favorable to white Americans as much as it was a concern with crime.

    As the strange election year that is 2020 marches on, Trump has returned to his 2016 rhetoric, but it may register differently. Late Thursday night, Minneapolis residents burned down a police station after the death of George Floyd, a black man in police custody. The president tweeted in response that, “These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Thank you!”

    It was a familiar law and order message from Trump. But he tweeted it into an unfamiliar America: Over 100,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 in the past few months. One out of every four workers has filed for unemployment. As the country lives through actual American carnage, will Trump’s law and order message resonate as it once did? Or will the bleak realities of 2020 prove inhospitable to the man who once proclaimed, “I alone can fix it”?


    In 2016, voters seemed excited by Trump’s verbal promiscuity, the lurid way that he painted the state of the nation. In his telling, America had descended into disarray thanks to porous borders that allowed in terrorists and job-stealing immigrants. He was engaging, if not accurate (the economy was doing well in many parts of the country and President Obama had actually deported more immigrants who were living in the country illegally than previous administrations). Pew Research surveys show that 2016 Trump supporters ranked the economy, terrorism, and immigration, along with foreign policy, as the most pressing issues of the election. And according to another Pew survey, 78 percent of voters who supported Trump in 2016 felt crime had gotten worse since 2008.

    Trump’s law and order framework was a sturdy way for him to talk about a more elusive idea — nostalgia for a mid century America with robust domestic manufacturing and a clearly-defined, if racist, social order. While Trump is no wonk and couldn’t talk particularly compellingly about globalization, the consolidation of industry and the widening gap between CEO and worker pay, he could talk about “the good old days” when you could smack someone around. It evoked something deep, that call for everything and everyone in their proper place.

    The law and order message might not sit so well in 2020. The country has now lived through years of controversies over video-taped killings by police, and the pandemic makes the world feel more chaotic day by day. We’ll have to wait to see the social and political reaction to the demonstrations in Minnesota, but there might be more sympathy for the turbulent feelings that make people riot or protest. While many will still roundly condemn looting, it’s perhaps easier for a greater number of us to imagine the kind of jagged anger — grief, if we’re being concise about it — that causes it than it was four years ago.

    Understanding the catharsis of looting — if not approving of the act — is something that has long eluded the understanding of white America, including liberal white America. “Shoot to kill arsonists and shoot to maim looters” was the order from Chicago’s white, Democratic Mayor Richard Daley during the 1968 riots following Dr. Martin Luther King’s assassination. King, for his part, called riots, “the language of the unheard.” Even Obama struggled with his reaction to the Ferguson, Missouri riots of 2014, receiving criticism from voices on the black left when he said he had “no sympathy at all for destroying your own communities.” He later said he would have done some things differently in his response to the Ferguson crisis, writ large.

    Minnesota has also proven a difficult testing ground for Trump’s return to law and order rhetoric. Reaction to the violence in the state — and the killing of Floyd — has unfolded somewhat differently than past violent deaths in police custody. Police chiefs from around the country swiftly condemned the officer who killed Floyd. Even as police on the ground in Minneapolis arrested a black journalist on live TV, the mayor and governor — both Democrats — called for calm while saying they understood and were sympathetic to the anger behind the rioting. Fox News guests and analysts condemned the officer’s actions, though it remains to be seen how conservative media and the right will react to the ongoing protests and violence. In a YouGov poll, 78 percent of surveyed adults thought the officer in the Floyd case should be arrested (he was on Friday afternoon).

    It seems unlikely, though, that Trump will easily give up the race-baiting language of “thugs” and the like. For Trump, who is famously ideologically flexible, the idea of law and order is perhaps his deepest-held, most sincere political belief. In 1989, in the midst of the Central Park Five controversy, when five black and Latino men were accused of the brutal rape of a white jogger, he took out full-page advertisements in New York City newspapers to decry waffling over the punishment of the men. (Later, they were famously found to have been wrongly convicted). “What has happened to law and order, to the neighborhood cop we all trusted to safeguard our homes and families?” Trump wrote. “I am not looking to psychoanalyze them or understand them, I am looking to punish them,” he said of the alleged criminals. “I no longer want to understand their anger. I want them to understand our anger. I want them to be afraid.”

    In 2016, Trump was able to echo these sentiments from 1989 easily — he was on the outside looking in. But in 2020 it will take more dexterity to run a campaign angry at authority when he is the authority. Once you have promised to end an imagined carnage, only to encounter actual death and societal destruction, the misdirection of your talking points risks exposure. But on this point, Trump has always been true to himself: He is the law and order candidate once again.

    www.myspace.com
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,072
    Biden
    If what is happening now doesn’t get progressive voters out in droves to create that big blue wave we all dream of I don’t know what will.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    Biden
    static111 said:
    If what is happening now doesn’t get progressive voters out in droves to create that big blue wave we all dream of I don’t know what will.

    It's going to get the scarred white vote out. Trump needs to keep talking about law and order.  Keep dog-whistling.  White nationalism is is the most powerful force in this country.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,993
    Biden

    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    Biden
    Not that Joe's not creepy (he is)...but how he is the "creepy one" in this matchup is beyond comprehension. 
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,993
    edited June 2020
    Biden
    OnWis97 said:
    Not that Joe's not creepy (he is)...but how he is the "creepy one" in this matchup is beyond comprehension. 
    Exactly. And this a publicly available picture of his daughter grinding on him. I shudder to think what that family’s like behind closed doors. Yuck..
    Post edited by Ledbetterman10 on
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,853
    Back to Biden. 2 general comments.

    1. Although I have been saying Trump has an excellent chance, I am encouraged by what I have seen lately on reddit politics. That place usually has very strong support for sanders and warren, a lot of younger socialist leaning voters. And since March, there has been a lot of disappointment with Biden and many saying they are struggling to support him.

    But that has been changing lately. They have seen how dangerous trump can be with his incompetent handling of covid. And Biden connected in a huge way this week on the police brutality issue and trump seemingly glorifying violence.



    2. Polling article today. A lot of very encouraging news:

     (CNN)A new ABC News/Washington Post poll shows former Vice President Joe Biden clearly ahead of President Donald Trump. Biden's up by a 53% to 43% margin among registered voters in this survey. 

    But it's important to put individual polls into context, and that context continues to show Biden's in one of the best positions for any challenger since scientific polling began in the 1930s. 

    There were more than 40 national public polls taken at least partially in the month of May that asked about the Biden-Trump matchup. Biden led in every single one of them. He's the first challenger to be ahead of the incumbent in every May poll since Jimmy Carter did so in 1976. Carter, of course, won the 1976 election. Biden's the only challenger to have the advantage in every May poll over an elected incumbent in the polling era. 

    Biden remains the lone challenger to be up in the average of polls in every single month of the election year. His average lead in a monthly average of polls has never dipped below 4 points and has usually been above it.
    For the life of me I do not understand the "struggling to support him" crowd.  There are two fucking choices and we know how one governs/leads for sure.  

    I realize you refer to how some opinions are changing....I just don't understand how people can be on the fence given what happened in 2016.  
    Remember when Spiritual was on ATM alot supporting Sanders? Kinda like that but with enormous number of commenters. 
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Biden
    OnWis97 said:
    static111 said:
    If what is happening now doesn’t get progressive voters out in droves to create that big blue wave we all dream of I don’t know what will.

    It's going to get the scarred white vote out. Trump needs to keep talking about law and order.  Keep dog-whistling.  White nationalism is is the most powerful force in this country.
    It's also going to further turn away the folks who flipped the house blue 2 years ago. Advantage: Biden. 
    www.myspace.com
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,177
    Biden
    OnWis97 said:
    static111 said:
    If what is happening now doesn’t get progressive voters out in droves to create that big blue wave we all dream of I don’t know what will.

    It's going to get the scarred white vote out. Trump needs to keep talking about law and order.  Keep dog-whistling.  White nationalism is is the most powerful force in this country.
    It's also going to further turn away the folks who flipped the house blue 2 years ago. Advantage: Biden. 
    I don't think the racist vote will be any stronger than it was in 2016....he is just trying to make sure they show up in 2020.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
    Biden
    I'm not a Joe fan.  There is a lot to not like about him.  And yet, I cannot find one reason not to vote for him in this coming election.   It's bad and it's getting worse.  Joe isn't a savior.  Joe really isn't even that great.  He is creepy.  He is old and has certainly lost mental acuity.  And yet in this matchup, by comparison, he looks great, he barely registers as creepy, he still seems old, but he seems less senile!  Joe ain't a savior, but I'm hope he saves us anyhow.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,177
    Biden
    I'm not a Joe fan.  There is a lot to not like about him.  And yet, I cannot find one reason not to vote for him in this coming election.   It's bad and it's getting worse.  Joe isn't a savior.  Joe really isn't even that great.  He is creepy.  He is old and has certainly lost mental acuity.  And yet in this matchup, by comparison, he looks great, he barely registers as creepy, he still seems old, but he seems less senile!  Joe ain't a savior, but I'm hope he saves us anyhow.
    I have liked Biden even back when I was a republican.  I always thought he came across as honest and you could tell that he really cared about people.


    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
    Biden
    I'm not a Joe fan.  There is a lot to not like about him.  And yet, I cannot find one reason not to vote for him in this coming election.   It's bad and it's getting worse.  Joe isn't a savior.  Joe really isn't even that great.  He is creepy.  He is old and has certainly lost mental acuity.  And yet in this matchup, by comparison, he looks great, he barely registers as creepy, he still seems old, but he seems less senile!  Joe ain't a savior, but I'm hope he saves us anyhow.
    I have liked Biden even back when I was a republican.  I always thought he came across as honest and you could tell that he really cared about people.


    He's a lot of what I dislike about politicians.  And I never thought he came across as honest.  Just an idiot.  And a creep. Really creepy creep.  But then the republican party told me to hold their beer....
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,295
    I'm guessing Kamala and Amy have been eliminated from VP consideration based on circumstances in the last week.  
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Biden
    Jason P said:
    I'm guessing Kamala and Amy have been eliminated from VP consideration based on circumstances in the last week.  
    Amy probably. Kamala's stock appears higher in my opinion. ?
    www.myspace.com
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    Biden
    yeah amy is done. i was not super excited about her anyway. i do like kamala, and warren, and abrams. glad i am not the one having to pick, especially in this current climate.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,295
    Jason P said:
    I'm guessing Kamala and Amy have been eliminated from VP consideration based on circumstances in the last week.  
    Amy probably. Kamala's stock appears higher in my opinion. ?
    I'm thinking her previous job is not the first thing she list on her resume these day.  District attorney that increased conviction rates seems to be a liability these days.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Biden
    Jason P said:
    Jason P said:
    I'm guessing Kamala and Amy have been eliminated from VP consideration based on circumstances in the last week.  
    Amy probably. Kamala's stock appears higher in my opinion. ?
    I'm thinking her previous job is not the first thing she list on her resume these day.  District attorney that increased conviction rates seems to be a liability these days.
    I'm thinking the color of her skin supersedes that. 
    www.myspace.com
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    Biden
    i think people are willing to forgive if they feel like you are on their side. just my hunch.  but i think that is politics 101.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    Biden
    Jason P said:
    Jason P said:
    I'm guessing Kamala and Amy have been eliminated from VP consideration based on circumstances in the last week.  
    Amy probably. Kamala's stock appears higher in my opinion. ?
    I'm thinking her previous job is not the first thing she list on her resume these day.  District attorney that increased conviction rates seems to be a liability these days.

    Yeah, a lot of justice-reform minded pundits have disliked her this entire time for that reason.  Given that Biden isn't great in this area, historically, she might be a bad match.  And Amy has to be done.  He connection to Chauvin is to be the end of her shot.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley