The coronavirus

PJNB · May 2020

bootlegger10 said:

PJNB said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

PJNB said:

The average number of pneumonia deaths in Florida up until May 25th is 918 since 2013 - 2018. This year they have a staggering 5185 deaths from pneumonia and only 1762 deaths from Covid so far when comparing the same time frame.

Texas had 973 deaths in 2018 up to this point due to pneumonia. This year they have 4622.

California had 6917 deaths in 2018 from flu/pneumonia. This year they are already up to 6935 deaths deaths this year. We are almost out of the flu season so this number seems close but we still have the fall season to account for.

US deaths by pneumonia in all of 2017 49,157
US deaths by pneumonia since Feb 1 2020 89,555

It seems to me that numbers from this virus, intentionally or not, are being misrepresented in a huge manner in some states. Whether it is for political or economic gain or just not the right means to test properly is anyones guess.

apples to oranges.

pneumonia can be viral or bacterial, so of course there will be a high number of pneumonia cases.

covid-19 is a virus.

I am not sure what your point is. Why is there an increase of pneumonia deaths this year in some states? 5 times more in Florida is a number that is not a bad year or a fluke. Something is going on with the testing.

Are you thinking that there are Covid deaths being reported as pneumonia instead?

I do. Whether it is intentional, lack of proper testing, or other reasons it seems something is going on. We are only as scared and careful as the numbers are telling us. If I am wrong with these numbers I will own it. I am having a BBQ with the family right now and if anyone wants to go deeper into them after send me a message. Again we are using numbers that we have no clue if they are accurate with Covid with so many tests being bad, lack of numbers to go around, dying of or with, and political and economic gain in play.

PJNB · May 2020

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/gqypwx/kentucky_has_had_913_more_pneumonia_deaths_than/

A more detailed summary on what is going on.

dignin · May 2020

PJNB said:

dignin said:

bootlegger10 said:

PJNB said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

PJNB said:

The average number of pneumonia deaths in Florida up until May 25th is 918 since 2013 - 2018. This year they have a staggering 5185 deaths from pneumonia and only 1762 deaths from Covid so far when comparing the same time frame.

Texas had 973 deaths in 2018 up to this point due to pneumonia. This year they have 4622.

California had 6917 deaths in 2018 from flu/pneumonia. This year they are already up to 6935 deaths deaths this year. We are almost out of the flu season so this number seems close but we still have the fall season to account for.

US deaths by pneumonia in all of 2017 49,157
US deaths by pneumonia since Feb 1 2020 89,555

It seems to me that numbers from this virus, intentionally or not, are being misrepresented in a huge manner in some states. Whether it is for political or economic gain or just not the right means to test properly is anyones guess.

apples to oranges.

pneumonia can be viral or bacterial, so of course there will be a high number of pneumonia cases.

covid-19 is a virus.

I am not sure what your point is. Why is there an increase of pneumonia deaths this year in some states? 5 times more in Florida is a number that is not a bad year or a fluke. Something is going on with the testing.

Are you thinking that there are Covid deaths being reported as pneumonia instead?

The numbers, if correct would indicate that.

Anyone have a source for those numbers?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

Thanks.

bbiggs · May 2020

I did not read through the CDC or Reddit links above, but am I hearing this correctly, that red states could potentially be calling Covid related deaths pneumonia deaths to lower the numbers? On the other hand, blue states are also being accused of calling all sorts of deaths Covid related to pump up the numbers. Top on the fact that the CDC has already shown a propensity to grossly mishandle testing data (virus and antibody tests intertwined) and this has the making of a royal shit show. Who knows what to believe anymore.

Mike D88 · May 2020

100,000.

That is likely a significant underestimate, owing to issues with testing and reporting. Some of which is simply systems being overwhelmed and a lack of testing capacity, especially earlier on, but some of it will likely turn out to be politically motivated.

PJNB · May 2020

So we have zones in our province. In Zone 5 a health care worker went to Quebec and did not self isolate or let anyone know when they came back and they continued to work. Now there are 3 people including the healthcare worker that are connected that tested positive. The province has decided that Zone 5 is now dialled back from phase 3 to phase 2. This is closing all businesses that were allowed to open a week ago effective immediately.

On one hand I am pissed that someone in healthcare could be this irresponsible. On the other hand I feel for these businesses that got some positive news last week and have to close down again this week. Knee jerk reaction from the government or the correct move? Going to be doing this for the next year I am afraid.

brianlux · May 2020

Much as I don't like going out, we needed some things from Home Depot. So off we went with masks and hand sanitizer, hoping others there were doing the same thing. Nope. Somewhere around 20%, besides us, had masks. Disappointing! Glad to be home and washed up. The things we got were either set out in the sun to kill germs or rubbed down with alcohol and brought in. Glad to have that job done.

jeffbr · May 2020

bbiggs said:

I did not read through the CDC or Reddit links above, but am I hearing this correctly, that red states could potentially be calling Covid related deaths pneumonia deaths to lower the numbers? On the other hand, blue states are also being accused of calling all sorts of deaths Covid related to pump up the numbers. Top on the fact that the CDC has already shown a propensity to grossly mishandle testing data (virus and antibody tests intertwined) and this has the making of a royal shit show. Who knows what to believe anymore.

The over-reporting is mostly a Fox accusation. It was levied against my state, so an investigation was done and it appears there may be about 30 questionable deaths that were counted as COVID and may not have been. On the flip side, they also said there could be 3,000 deaths that were not listed as COVID that likely are, only because we didn't know enough about it at the time of death. So even states that are accused of inflating the numbers are likely under-reporting. WaPo did a pretty good report on this last month.

elvistheking44 · May 2020

Oops

elvistheking44 · May 2020

mrussel1 said:

wndowpayne said:

bbiggs said:

wndowpayne said:

Mandatory masks inside now in Va..This is going to really piss off some idiots..

If it’s anything like IL, you’ll still get some tough guys that go mask free to prove a point.

With a pistol on the hip..

It's interesting where I live. Im in Henrico, right on the border with Hanover. If you know VA, you'll know henrico is urban and Hanover is mostly rural, but suburban where 295 and 95 meet on the north end.
I was in Lowes in Henrico on Sunday and masks were 85% easy. I drove to Home Depot in Hanover, right at 295 and 95 and it was probably 20% masks. It was amazing how different it was only 15 minutes apart, but the Hanover area draws in the rural residents.

I’m headed to Richmond to pick up my sons dorm room items from Chicago next week. I’m so curious how this road trip will go. Not real excited about finding hotels on the road but it is what it is I guess.

mickeyrat · May 2020

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/if-conservatives-want-a-less-intrusive-government-they-should-wear-masks/2020/05/27/50908ed8-9f90-11ea-b5c9-570a91917d8d_story.html

Conservatives who refuse to wear masks undercut a central claim of their beliefs
By Megan McArdle
May 27 at 3:50 PM ET
If you had asked me six months ago to predict which party would display extreme levels of concern about a deadly pandemic and which party would downplay the risk, I’d have thought you were tossing me a softball question.

A disease that makes China look bad for a hapless initial response that let a new virus get established, followed by a coverup that let it infect the world?

A disease that exposed the dangers of sourcing essential goods such as medical protective gear from a strategic rival?

A disease that has restored and hardened borders, halted migration, and demonstrated how toothless and ineffective transnational institutions are at dealing with mortal threats?

A disease that has killed almost 100,000 Americans — which is approximately 100,000 more than the 2014 Ebola outbreak that Republicans thought President Obama didn’t take seriously enough?

Republicans, I’d have said, will be the party of total war against the virus. How could it be otherwise?

Yes, well, I’m still trying to figure that out, too.

I am struggling to understand how the conservative movement got to this point. Even the most hard-core conservatives and libertarians have always recognized that all liberties have some limits — your right to roam ends at my property line. For years, conservatives have explained that public health efforts are a legitimate exercise of government power.

Sure, this was usually a prelude to complaining that public health authorities such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention were neglecting this vital mission in favor of paternalistic nannying. But given the CDC’s many boneheaded errors over the past six months, conservatives were in a position to score some political points by shouting: “CDC, you had one job!”

Instead, far too many Republicans are suddenly arguing that public health efforts are not a legitimate exercise of power. The government, they complain, has no right to tell them what they can do, even if what they plan to do comes with some risk that a deadly disease will spread.

I’m not talking about the people who simply make the reasonable, indeed indisputable, argument that we cannot shut down the whole economy until a vaccine is developed. I’m talking about the ones who refuse to make even small compromises for public safety, such as wearing a mask — and especially conservatives who complain when store owners exercise their right to require them on store property.

This doesn’t just eviscerate generations’ worth of arguments about public health. It also undercuts a more central claim of conservatism: that big, coercive government programs are unnecessary because private institutions could provide many benefits that we think of as “public goods.” For that to be true, the civic culture would have to be such that individuals are willing to make serious sacrifices for the common good, and especially to protect the most vulnerable among us.

If conservatives actually want a smaller, less-intrusive government, then they cannot talk only about liberty and rights; they also have to talk about duty and obligations.

Conservatism has always understood that duty without liberty is slavery, but liberty without duty is a Hobbesian war of all-against-all; indeed, this has been one of their major arguments against the steady relaxation of sexual mores and familial obligations. But this principal applies equally well to government, because people will always demand safety, predictability and security, and if the private sector isn’t providing them, they will turn to the state. That’s why shrinking the government leviathan requires citizens who worry more about the welfare of their fellow citizens and are more willing to sacrifice for strangers who share their flag than those who outsource those duties to a professional bureaucracy with enforcement powers.

Reasonable people can of course argue about how much economic sacrifice citizens can be asked to bear for the common good, or whether that good is best served by lockdowns. But I submit that if you are not willing to endure the minimal inconvenience of wearing a piece of cloth across your nose and mouth while shopping, you’re unlikely to make the really big sacrifices that a smaller government would require.

Conservatives would have many responses to this: that the fault really lies with the experts who have flip-flopped about the virtues of masks; and with the media, whose endless gotcha games have vaporized any credibility they had left with President Trump’s supporters; and with the social media hysterics who hurl obscene charges at anyone who questions the wisdom of lockdown. How could I expect conservatives to put on a mask just because those people say so?

I’d answer that conservatives have always insisted that it was a left-wing pathology to believe that people merely react mindlessly and helplessly to environmental stimuli, like amoeba. We of the right believe in small government and a robust civic society sustained by the private actions of free and equal individuals. So of course I thought that whatever the left might get up to, conservatives would take personal responsibility for doing what needs to be done to make America safe again. Thus far I’ve been unhappily surprised.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2020

F Me In The Brain said:

Why were you relieved to see people staying home when you went out?

Seems like a strange feeling to have?

I guess most of the feelings we have around this damn thing are strange.

i get why that could be confusing. we have been extremely careful since our daughter is immune compromised. we went with the intention of checking things out, seeing how many people, and if there were too many, we'd leave. i was happy to see that a usual hotspot of city activity wasn't packed like i expected. it made me think that a lot of people are still taking this seriously.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2020

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Refuting Bill Maher: "Chinese Virus" Is A Stupid, Bigoted Term

"I'm not referring to Chinese people." "That's where the virus came from." "You're being too sensitive." You may have heard these arguments and more from both liberals and conservatives oddly preoccupied with referring to coronavirus as the "Chinese virus" or "Wuhan virus" and defending others who do. Current Affairs editor Nathan Robinson offers some good reasons why you should refrain.

https://youtu.be/E_ajcLkthok

I saw the spot that Maher did on COVID-19 and it was excellent. The bit about the name was not at all a problem for me. The two lines that I think Maher said that puts this into perspective are, "Jesus fucking Christ, can't we even have a pandemic without getting offended?" and, "This isn't about vilifying the culture, it's about facts." And I would say that in this case, vilifying the culture would not necessarily be inappropriate- at least not the part of the culture that engages in foolish behaviors like fucking around with viruses in a labs (we do that too and I call us out on that) and having wet markets that include things like bats and other wildlife. That is fucking stupid and I'm not afraid to call the Chinese out on that, just like I'm not afraid to call out Americans for all the fucking stupid things we do. Maher also calls out the Chinese for quickly reopening their wet markets "where exotic animals are sold and consumed" opening up the wet markets and says the PC police thinks its inappropriate to attack any cultural practices that are different from ours. Really? I don't see any problem with doing that when those practices are dangerous or immoral.

I sometimes think political correctness is making it hard or even impossible to be able to simply be sensible. I don't have a problem with calling disease by their place of origin. Especially when that place of origin is doing stupid things. Why not hold the country of origin accountable? The members of the Chinese society that created this virus fucked up my life and yours. Do we not want to hold them accountable? I do. Does that make me racist against Chinese people? Oh, for Christ's sake, no.

And really, aren't there problems related to this disease that are far more important? Like, are you and I going to survive this whatever you want to call it disease?

For those who missed it, here's the Maher video we are talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfDwc2G2_8

in most cases, its HOW a word or phrase is used. what tone and inflection its said with. case in point. Jew. Acceptable in most every circumstance until it has some shit behind it then its antisemetic, racist, bigoted what have you.

at its heart I believe political correctness is really about decency and respect.

I agree with you there 100% .

I call the disease "COVID-19" and the virus "cornonavirus" because those are presently the common terms. If it were called "Wuhan Virus" I would have no issue with calling it that. When I was a kid, I had German Measles. I'm half Amish which mean that I'm somewhat part German. I don't know anyone who has a problem calling the illness "German Measles". I don't.

The proper name for that condition is rubella, though, not German measles, and the term "German measles" wasn't intended to blame Germans for the disease. The condition was widespread by that point but was formally described by German physicians.

OK.

I still stand by everything I said.

Sure, go ahead, but know that the two situations are not at all comparable.

Anyone who prefers to use the terms "Wuhan virus" or "Chinese virus" is doing so to stir up anger and ill feeling, and that includes Maher.

sorry, but you are claiming to know the intent behind every single person who utters these phrases, which is just downright silly.

bbiggs · May 2020

brianlux said:

Much as I don't like going out, we needed some things from Home Depot. So off we went with masks and hand sanitizer, hoping others there were doing the same thing. Nope. Somewhere around 20%, besides us, had masks. Disappointing! Glad to be home and washed up. The things we got were either set out in the sun to kill germs or rubbed down with alcohol and brought in. Glad to have that job done.

20%?! Damn. Why do people make it so hard? Just put the mask on when indoors in a public place. That's not so much to ask. Life has to go on with necessary precautions. Too bad a large handful of people can't just follow the rules, which increases risk for everyone who does. Put on a mask and a large percentage of the problems are solved.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2020

no new cases in manitoba in several days, 7 deaths total. phase two of opening back up june 1. bars and restaurants at 50% capacity, swimming pools and gyms, etc.

i'm probably still going to work from home until mid-fall, which is fucking fantastic. (serious). i love this. spinning vinyl while i work, having lunch with my kids on the patio. zero commute. roll out of bed 30 seconds before work. this is the best ever. no annoying corporate bullshit to deal with every day. no interruptions or drama. MY OWN BATHROOM.

i could really get used to this on a permanent basis.

brianlux · May 2020

bbiggs said:

brianlux said:

Much as I don't like going out, we needed some things from Home Depot. So off we went with masks and hand sanitizer, hoping others there were doing the same thing. Nope. Somewhere around 20%, besides us, had masks. Disappointing! Glad to be home and washed up. The things we got were either set out in the sun to kill germs or rubbed down with alcohol and brought in. Glad to have that job done.

20%?! Damn. Why do people make it so hard? Just put the mask on when indoors in a public place. That's not so much to ask. Life has to go on with necessary precautions. Too bad a large handful of people can't just follow the rules, which increases risk for everyone who does. Put on a mask and a large percentage of the problems are solved.

Exactly! I wasn't directly rude to any of these people but when I saw someone with a mask on I said out loud, "Smart man!" or "Smart lady!" and when I passed (but not close) someone without one (most people) I said very quietly, "Idiot". My wife didn't nudge me, so I know none of them heard me, but it sure is how I felt.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2020

buddy of mine had friends over on his deck last weekend. 8 people. he texts me and says "we're doing it again this saturday, you should come down".

a few texts later he spills that he's in montreal right now for business. um, yeah, you need to be self isolating for two weeks when you get back, pal, not having a fucking pool party.

fuck. told him no thanks. see you in a few weeks.

mickeyrat · May 2020

HughFreakingDillon said:

buddy of mine had friends over on his deck last weekend. 8 people. he texts me and says "we're doing it again this saturday, you should come down".

a few texts later he spills that he's in montreal right now for business. um, yeah, you need to be self isolating for two weeks when you get back, pal, not having a fucking pool party.

fuck. told him no thanks. see you in a few weeks.

that soon? given his seeming nonchalance about this , I'd say he continues with the inadvisable behaviors......

brianlux · May 2020

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

buddy of mine had friends over on his deck last weekend. 8 people. he texts me and says "we're doing it again this saturday, you should come down".

a few texts later he spills that he's in montreal right now for business. um, yeah, you need to be self isolating for two weeks when you get back, pal, not having a fucking pool party.

fuck. told him no thanks. see you in a few weeks.

that soon? given his seeming nonchalance about this , I'd say he continues with the inadvisable behaviors......

Yeah, I'd be saying, "Later dude. Much, much later, like maybe next year."

cincybearcat · May 2020

brianlux said:

Much as I don't like going out, we needed some things from Home Depot. So off we went with masks and hand sanitizer, hoping others there were doing the same thing. Nope. Somewhere around 20%, besides us, had masks. Disappointing! Glad to be home and washed up. The things we got were either set out in the sun to kill germs or rubbed down with alcohol and brought in. Glad to have that job done.

So I gotta ask, why off “we” went?

I only ask because as I am concerned we never go together. Only 1 person in and out

The coronavirus

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Refuting Bill Maher: "Chinese Virus" Is A Stupid, Bigoted Term

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