The coronavirus

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  • Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    what dreams said:
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    I heard a scholar from the Wilson Center on C-Span this morning (name?) state that China will probably beat the US at developing the vaccine, giving them another significant edge as the emerging world leader right now. He also reminded viewers that about 80% of all our pharmaceuticals and medical equipment already comes from China, putting us in a dependent role. His main point was that it's stupid for us to be at polticial odds with China right now, that scientists and doctors in our two countries have always enjoyed a positive relationship. Many Chinese doctors/scientists train in the US. 

    But yeah, I'm putting my money on China. 

    I think it would be great if the country of origin for this virus were also the country of origin for the vaccine.  But, what the heck, if it comes from Mars, I'm all for it!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    pjl44 said:
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    I'd be skeptical of Clay Travis. For starters, the study he's leaning on has been pretty heavily criticized. 

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/antibody-surveys-suggesting-vast-undercount-coronavirus-infections-may-be-unreliable#



    And he was one of those flu-is-more-dangerous guys.




    That dude in the video at the end of your post...

    biglaugh




    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Posts: 30,879
    what dreams said:
    show previous quotes
    I heard a scholar from the Wilson Center on C-Span this morning (name?) state that China will probably beat the US at developing the vaccine, giving them another significant edge as the emerging world leader right now. He also reminded viewers that about 80% of all our pharmaceuticals and medical equipment already comes from China, putting us in a dependent role. His main point was that it's stupid for us to be at polticial odds with China right now, that scientists and doctors in our two countries have always enjoyed a positive relationship. Many Chinese doctors/scientists train in the US. 

    But yeah, I'm putting my money on China. 
    They also own a good chunk of our debt,  so yeah for multiple reasons it's stupid for political leaders to vilify China.  You can be tough without toothless threats. 
  • Posts: 30,879
    Who the f is Clay Travis?  
  • Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    mrussel1 said:
    Who the f is Clay Travis?  

    Good question.  Sounds to me like blow hard who like to hear himself yell at people and call them "stupid".   Well, by now we all know what comparing COVID-19 to the flu makes someone.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Posts: 12,911
    Mike D88 said:
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    A couple issues I take with this, although perhaps not the general thrust (I do think we need to better understand the virus before we can go declaring certain age groups as safe):

    1) The Stanford study will be DOA in peer review. Wholly disqualifying procedures.

    2) These studies (including the Stanford one) that are playing in a range of zero to several percentage points are not rising above the noise floor for the antibody tests.

    for sure not bad to be skeptical at this point. i'd say ignore the blowhard wording from the guy but look at the numbers.  if the numbers are correct then this is quite interesting.  fact is you won't get a fully approved study in such a short period of time so you take what you can get.  with real leadership we can use the data we have to start to understand what we can do moving forward to get back to some sense of normalcy in our lives for us without underlying conditions.  i think we all can agree we want that
  • Posts: 12,911
    pjl44 said:
    show previous quotes
    I'd be skeptical of Clay Travis. For starters, the study he's leaning on has been pretty heavily criticized. 

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/antibody-surveys-suggesting-vast-undercount-coronavirus-infections-may-be-unreliable#



    And he was one of those flu-is-more-dangerous guys.




    for sure be skeptical of the person himself but if the numbers listed are correct, or close to correct it is quite interesting.  as we learn more about this we get closer to being able to return to some level of opening back up.  interesting numbers even if the guy is kind of a whack job
  • Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    oftenreading said:
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    Hard to know how to choose, but at least it's something.

    When we get to this in BC, I'm sure that my parents will want to link their "bubble" with mine, but I'm going to resist. Both are in their 80s, both have underlying health conditions, and I work in an area at higher risk for exposure. They already see me in person once a week when  I drop groceries at their door, then run away and talk to them from 20 feet away, plus we have a family zoom meeting each Sunday with my brother's family and I phone them. They'll just have to accept that for a while. 
    manitoba's top health doc says we won't be following the bubble model. it sounded interesting to me. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Posts: 1,761
    pjhawks said:
    Great article here.   Virus more common but less deadly than expected.   Should be able to open up for those healthy and those 45 and under almost anytime.

    https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/studies-coronavirus-less-deadly-more-common-than-experts-believed/
    Funny. I just read an article with the exact opposite headline. For fuck sake, the headlines 

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/antibody-tests-support-whats-been-obvious-covid-19-is-much-more-lethal-than-flu/2020/04/28/2fc215d8-87f7-11ea-ac8a-fe9b8088e101_story.html
  • Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,410
    mrussel1 said:
    Who the f is Clay Travis?  
    Sports talk radio host
    Definitely a virus and/or pandemic expert to be listened to.
  • St. Louis, MO USA Posts: 4,314
    edited April 2020
    pjhawks said:
    show previous quotes

    for sure be skeptical of the person himself but if the numbers listed are correct, or close to correct it is quite interesting.  as we learn more about this we get closer to being able to return to some level of opening back up.  interesting numbers even if the guy is kind of a whack job
    The problem with just "looking at the numbers" presented by a whack job is that he's cherry-picking the numbers that best support his previously stated point of view that the coronavirus is no more deadly than the flu. If it was someone more credible and objective than Clay Travis, it would be a different story... 
    Post edited by SHZA on
  • Posts: 1,761
    edited April 2020
    Here is the letter to the NEJM regarding the FIVE stroke patients at Mt Sinai.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2009787query=featured_coronavirus
    Edit: when you click on link, you will be redirected, letter is three links down at this writing. 

    It turns out three of them did have preexisting conditions: one had suffered another mild stroke previous to Co-Vid. One was discovered to have previously  undiagnosed diabetes while being treated for Covid, another had hypertension and hyperlipidemia.Two of them said what I suggested earlier, based on prior reading  -- they delayed going to hospital with stroke symptoms because of coVid fears.

    Remarkably, when interviewed on NPR this morning and asked about underlying conditions connected to these cases, the doctor flat out LIED and said NO. So, I go to the letter mentioned on NPR to read his report myself, simply out of curiosity, and see facts in his own report that counter the LIE he told on the radio. Unbelievable. 

    There is a footnote in the letter regarding a 5% incidence of related strokes in Wuhan. Makes me wonder about lies being told everywhere.
    Post edited by what dreams on
  • Posts: 13,576
    edited April 2020
    what dreams said:
    Here is the letter to the NEJM regarding the FIVE stroke patients at Mt Sinai.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2009787query=featured_coronavirus
    Edit: when you click on link, you will be redirected, letter is three links down at this writing. 

    It turns out three of them did have preexisting conditions: one had suffered another mild stroke previous to Co-Vid. One was discovered to have previously  undiagnosed diabetes while being treated for Covid, another had hypertension and hyperlipidemia.Two of them said what I suggested earlier, based on prior reading  -- they delayed going to hospital with stroke symptoms because of coVid fears.

    Remarkably, when interviewed on NPR this morning and asked about underlying conditions connected to these cases, the doctor flat out LIED and said NO. So, I go to the letter mentioned on NPR to read his report myself, simply out of curiosity, and see facts in his own report that counter the LIE he told on the radio. Unbelievable. 

    There is a footnote in the letter regarding a 5% incidence of related strokes in Wuhan. Makes me wonder about lies being told everywhere.
    That is untrue.  Dr Makko (spelling?) did not lie.
    He was speaking about the 7x increase in stroke occurance that's been observed, and making a general assessment that overall, they did not have the expected usual underlying conditions that would precede a severe stroke. 
    Your desire to see the media as inherently dishonest and alarmist is skewing your perception.
    It's one thing to distrust the media, but you should take a breathe and reassess before you throw medical professionals under the bus.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Posts: 13,576
    I'll add that you emphasize the FIVE patients in the letter, which was stated to just be an initial alarm, but seem to ignore the reported 7x increase that has been significantly correlated to COVID-19.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Posts: 16,831
    Mike D88 said:
    Well, there was that time Trump tried to secure the rights to a German vaccine for exclusive use in the US, in the far distant past known as March.

    That's a good point about being at political odds with China. They were already poised to take the lead this century, and this situation accelerates that. Unfortunately, the 2020 GOP playbook is here, and it's all about going at odds with China.
    Kinda nice to think about causing a pandemic leads to more power for China. Can't wait for the future!
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Posts: 7,855
    Renfield said:
    show previous quotes
    “I know why I usually keep away from AMT...“

    ...Shark infested waters
    This is nothing. Check out a libertarian or conservative forum. 
  • Posts: 13,576
    Lerxst1992 said:
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    This is nothing. Check out a libertarian or conservative forum. 
    Yeah, no shit.
    Or just hop on the comment section of any CBS/NBC article on Facebook.
    If you think these are shark infested waters, you're not even stuck in the reef, you're in the kiddie pool at the resort lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,808
    Why would anyone want to go to one of those sites?
    Fuck those people, at this point.  
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Posts: 11,432
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Why would anyone want to go to one of those sites?
    Fuck those people, at this point.  
    Confirmation bias, branded and bottled.
  • Posts: 1,761
    edited April 2020
    rgambs said:
    show previous quotes
    That is untrue.  Dr Makko (spelling?) did not lie.
    He was speaking about the 7x increase in stroke occurance that's been observed, and making a general assessment that overall, they did not have the expected usual underlying conditions that would precede a severe stroke. 
    Your desire to see the media as inherently dishonest and alarmist is skewing your perception.
    It's one thing to distrust the media, but you should take a breathe and reassess before you throw medical professionals under the bus.
    https://www.npr.org/2020/04/29/847732044/doctors-find-some-younger-covid-19-patients-suffer-serious-strokes

    40% = 5, not 4.8, remember?
    7x, he says (out of no baseline number provided)
    "About half" he says (of no total patients given)

    Statistics never tell the whole story, and they mostly serve to confuse average people who don't know how to question them. And to @oftenreading, you're right, I forgot to extrapolate to the population at large in my denominator in my original post on this issue. 

    If 3/5 in the report I link where preexisting conditions DO exist is extrapolated to the "about half" he discusses in this article -- does that equal the 5% Wuhan reports? Can we go there instead of confusing everyone?

    And it is absolutely true that he said NO on preexisting conditions when his own report refutes that. I'm not throwing him under the bus. He threw himself under the bus. 

     He could just tell America that there are unknown numbers of you walking around  with diabetes and don't even know it. If you had a stroke before, you might have another one. Get your blood pressure under control. Forget CoVid, and go to the emergency room at the first sign of a stroke. Instead, the discussion makes it seem like half the people who get CoVid will have a stroke, and it's just not fucking true.

    I have one doctor, one, whom I trust with my life. He helped me beat cancer, after a previous doctor ignored my reported, and well-known, obvious symptoms of it for years. She even missed the damned lump in my neck, for Chist sake, when she checked my lymph nodes on a routine exam.

    You know the first thing this trusted doctor told me every time I had to make a treatment decision? "There are no guarantees in medicine." 
    Post edited by what dreams on
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