PPP (Paycheck Protection Program)

rgambs said:

I don't remember annual revenue as a criteria in the application process at all?  It was all about payroll.

From the FAQ.. so it's tangible net worth.  I knew it wasn't about payroll only because my company only has 120 people and we are not eligible.  You have to qualify under the SBA definition: 

 Question: Are small business concerns (as defined in section 3 of the Small Business Act, 15 U.S.C. 632) required to have 500 or fewer employees to be eligible borrowers in the PPP?

Answer: No. Small business concerns can be eligible borrowers even if they have more than 500 employees, as long as they satisfy the existing statutory and regulatory definition of a “small business concern” under section 3 of the Small Business Act, 15 U.S.C. 632. A business can qualify if it meets the SBA employee-based or revenue- based size standard corresponding to its primary industry. Go to www.sba.gov/size for the industry size standards. Additionally, a business can qualify for the Paycheck Protection Program as a small business concern if it met both tests in SBA’s “alternative size standard” as of March 27, 2020: (1) maximum tangible net worth of the business is not more than $15 million; and (2) the average net income after Federal income taxes (excluding any carry-over losses) of the business for the two full fiscal years before the date of the application is not more than $5 million.

mrussel1 said:

vaggar99 said:

dudeman said:

vaggar99 said:

mrussel1 said:

vaggar99 said:

rgambs said:

Yeah this thing is fucked, not because of the design, but because people are greedy fucking losers.
It had to have few impediments in order to roll out fast and smooth enough to be effective, but those few impediments left the door open for people that deserve fates I'll not utter aloud.
If you didn't have to close or lay anyone off and you applied for this loan because it's free money or just because it's such a low interest loan, you are a bag of shit and I hope you choke on a bag of dicks.

The biggest recipient in our area is an owner of 6 fast food restaurants that are still busy as fuck.  Nobody, or almost nobody, is laid off on unemployment, but now payroll is covered for 2 months.  Awesome.

Yes, they put no fucking restrictions on the program.  Sounds like you are in the majority of honest businesses that were truly affected by this that didn't get funded.

We got 1 out of 3 of our loans approved.  So, we are covering 2/3 of our employees on our own dime.  The biggest shit show of my lifetime.

Were the other two denied or are you waiting for new funding?

We are waiting new funding.  Made the mistake of going with our main bank, Chase.

It seems like small lenders were far more aggressive in terms of getting applications submitted right away. 

With the number of candidates compared to the total of available funds, it's no surprise that the money ran out. 

Hopefully the program is funded again or another, better alternative is made available soon. 

Good luck to you!

Chase intentionally slowed the process.  Well documented on Youtube.  Now Jamie Dimon has egg all over his face.

All the big banks slowed down because they didn't have the answers or the systems to support something so massive in such a short period of time.  Why or what do you think they did to intentionally slow it down for nefarious reasons?

A good friend of mine is a business banker with a smaller bank. He prepared a bunch of various applications and worksheets in the weeks leading to the start of PPP. He said they did it that way so they would have a better chance of having an application ready to go when the government released their criteria. 

It seems to have worked for them. He put in a lot of long hours and barely slept during that time. He also explained that it was a risk for him and his bank to do that much leg work without having the final details of the loans. 

Ultimately, they were able to secure loans for some of the businesses in the community and that will hopefully keep them afloat. 

They knew from the beginning that the money would run out so they jumped right in. As explained above, large banks are much slower moving and less likely to take the risks that smaller, independent lenders can. 

vaggar99 said:

mrussel1 said:

vaggar99 said:

dudeman said:

vaggar99 said:

mrussel1 said:

vaggar99 said:

rgambs said:

Yeah this thing is fucked, not because of the design, but because people are greedy fucking losers.
It had to have few impediments in order to roll out fast and smooth enough to be effective, but those few impediments left the door open for people that deserve fates I'll not utter aloud.
If you didn't have to close or lay anyone off and you applied for this loan because it's free money or just because it's such a low interest loan, you are a bag of shit and I hope you choke on a bag of dicks.

The biggest recipient in our area is an owner of 6 fast food restaurants that are still busy as fuck.  Nobody, or almost nobody, is laid off on unemployment, but now payroll is covered for 2 months.  Awesome.

Yes, they put no fucking restrictions on the program.  Sounds like you are in the majority of honest businesses that were truly affected by this that didn't get funded.

We got 1 out of 3 of our loans approved.  So, we are covering 2/3 of our employees on our own dime.  The biggest shit show of my lifetime.

Were the other two denied or are you waiting for new funding?

We are waiting new funding.  Made the mistake of going with our main bank, Chase.

It seems like small lenders were far more aggressive in terms of getting applications submitted right away. 

With the number of candidates compared to the total of available funds, it's no surprise that the money ran out. 

Hopefully the program is funded again or another, better alternative is made available soon. 

Good luck to you!

Chase intentionally slowed the process.  Well documented on Youtube.  Now Jamie Dimon has egg all over his face.

All the big banks slowed down because they didn't have the answers or the systems to support something so massive in such a short period of time.  Why or what do you think they did to intentionally slow it down for nefarious reasons?

it wasn't nefarious, but they certainly were not ready to go to bat for their clients the way small banks were.

I agree with that.  

vaggar99 said:

Shake Shack is being untruthful here. The 500 employee rule was very clear. They saw an opportunity for free money and they took it. They and others got caught.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/shake-shack-returning-10-million-government-loan-meant-small-businesses-n1187541?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR3YFcfdNIgH4U-73lab0wGqZg7o68ODiiyr1-kuJpHouRMRutjLvflel2g

It’s easy to do the right thing after you get caught

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

vaggar99 said:

Shake Shack is being untruthful here. The 500 employee rule was very clear. They saw an opportunity for free money and they took it. They and others got caught.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/shake-shack-returning-10-million-government-loan-meant-small-businesses-n1187541?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR3YFcfdNIgH4U-73lab0wGqZg7o68ODiiyr1-kuJpHouRMRutjLvflel2g

It’s easy to do the right thing after you get caught

Did they get 'caught'?  The article doesn't read that way.  It reads like they were proactive about it.  

The program definitely wasn't made for corporate businesses like that.  But I bet a franchise model would appropriately receive the funds.  For midsize companies like mine, there is a new fed program that is rolling out that allows borrowing at basically the discount rate, with no P&I until next year.  None can be forgiven, but at that rate, businesses will take it all day.  It's basically free money compared to the coupon on normal business loans which are usually around 10%.  

I’m sure the bad publicity about their own firm and many other chain restaurants receiving millions in funding while actual small businesses failed to secure any money had nothing to do with their altruistic decision. 🙄

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

vaggar99 said:

Shake Shack is being untruthful here. The 500 employee rule was very clear. They saw an opportunity for free money and they took it. They and others got caught.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/shake-shack-returning-10-million-government-loan-meant-small-businesses-n1187541?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR3YFcfdNIgH4U-73lab0wGqZg7o68ODiiyr1-kuJpHouRMRutjLvflel2g

It’s easy to do the right thing after you get caught

Did they get 'caught'?  The article doesn't read that way.  It reads like they were proactive about it.  

The program definitely wasn't made for corporate businesses like that.  But I bet a franchise model would appropriately receive the funds.  For midsize companies like mine, there is a new fed program that is rolling out that allows borrowing at basically the discount rate, with no P&I until next year.  None can be forgiven, but at that rate, businesses will take it all day.  It's basically free money compared to the coupon on normal business loans which are usually around 10%.  

I’m sure the bad publicity about their own firm and many other chain restaurants receiving millions in funding while actual small businesses failed to secure any money had nothing to do with their altruistic decision. 🙄

I agree, it was in poor taste, but they also did not do anything illegal. This is one of those ethical dilemmas and obviously when money is involved, people often make poor choices that when they come to light, do not look good. So they then go, oh well, we're going to do the right thing now because we don't need it. I guess we can be thankful they are giving it back. Let's face it, there's plenty of people out there who wouldn't and would double down on why they need it just as much.

Yeah, on Friday evening I saw posts on LinkedIn from small business owners pissed off about this happening and RC was the main call out.
I didn't know of Shake Shack until the story this AM.
I'm glad they gave it back but I feel it is a publicity stunt.

F Me In The Brain said:

The anger about Ruth's Chris was already going on before Shit Shack decided to give back what they had no right to take.
Shame on them.  Ruths Chris can burn in hell - I'll never go there again and I used to eat there occasionally.  Fuck them in the steak hole.

For me the anger at Ruth’s Chris started with the name. The confusing grammar made it a foregone conclusion that it was never going to be a place I would eat

rgambs said:

static111 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

The anger about Ruth's Chris was already going on before Shit Shack decided to give back what they had no right to take.
Shame on them.  Ruths Chris can burn in hell - I'll never go there again and I used to eat there occasionally.  Fuck them in the steak hole.

For me the anger at Ruth’s Chris started with the name. The confusing grammar made it a foregone conclusion that it was never going to be a place I would eat

No doubt.  Also, no steak is worth $60.  Fuck, I could raise and butcher my own steer for cheaper, better steaks than that.

Undoubtedly... but do you have the equipment to cook them properly?  That's the trick for steak and why home steak is never as good as at a quality steakhouse.  I can't get a grill hot enough and even enough to do it perfectly.  I do agree that Ruth's is massively over priced.  There are worthwhile $60 steaks, but not there.  And the name is stupid.