The Democratic Presidential Debates
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Turnout in Michigan was up 33% from 2016, yet it was voter suppression
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/487383-ocasio-cortez-rampant-voter-suppression-contributed-to-sanderss-loss-in
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At this point I am for whatever candidate can get TP back on the shelves. It’s crazy out there I just went to get a snack at Randall’s and just out of morbid curiosity looked at the TP aisle....completely bare....Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
really want to know her definition of suppression...mrussel1 said:Turnout in Michigan was up 33% from 2016, yet it was voter suppression
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/487383-ocasio-cortez-rampant-voter-suppression-contributed-to-sanderss-loss-in
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
I’d say waiting in line for 3 hours is a form of suppression, particularly when you compare population density of registered voters by precincts and subsequent distribution of polling place employees and voting machines. It’s well documented. Whether AOC’s claim in this particular instance is accurate, I don’t know. But it’s worth investigating and if found to be true, there should be remedies.mickeyrat said:
really want to know her definition of suppression...mrussel1 said:Turnout in Michigan was up 33% from 2016, yet it was voter suppression
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/487383-ocasio-cortez-rampant-voter-suppression-contributed-to-sanderss-loss-in09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Halifax2TheMax said:
I’d say waiting in line for 3 hours is a form of suppression, particularly when you compare population density of registered voters by precincts and subsequent distribution of polling place employees and voting machines. It’s well documented. Whether AOC’s claim in this particular instance is accurate, I don’t know. But it’s worth investigating and if found to be true, there should be remedies.mickeyrat said:
really want to know her definition of suppression...mrussel1 said:Turnout in Michigan was up 33% from 2016, yet it was voter suppression
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/487383-ocasio-cortez-rampant-voter-suppression-contributed-to-sanderss-loss-inmy counter would be, despite a higher registered voter number, the election boards prepare based on historical turnout i.e. number of poll workers and machines at a given location.further, there is no way to predict, along with actual turnout, just what time a set of voters will actually appear.so the states either put up the cash to have enough machines in place for all eligible voters, registered or not. And have an equal number of volunteers on hand to meet that potential demand. or the voters put ul with the inconvenience consistantly to force states to to put up the cash to meet demand.this is driven by citizen apathy not sinister motives although that can also play a role._____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
I disagree.mickeyrat said:Halifax2TheMax said:
I’d say waiting in line for 3 hours is a form of suppression, particularly when you compare population density of registered voters by precincts and subsequent distribution of polling place employees and voting machines. It’s well documented. Whether AOC’s claim in this particular instance is accurate, I don’t know. But it’s worth investigating and if found to be true, there should be remedies.mickeyrat said:
really want to know her definition of suppression...mrussel1 said:Turnout in Michigan was up 33% from 2016, yet it was voter suppression
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/487383-ocasio-cortez-rampant-voter-suppression-contributed-to-sanderss-loss-inmy counter would be, despite a higher registered voter number, the election boards prepare based on historical turnout i.e. number of poll workers and machines at a given location.further, there is no way to predict, along with actual turnout, just what time a set of voters will actually appear.so the states either put up the cash to have enough machines in place for all eligible voters, registered or not. And have an equal number of volunteers on hand to meet that potential demand. or the voters put ul with the inconvenience consistantly to force states to to put up the cash to meet demand.this is driven by citizen apathy not sinister motives although that can also play a role.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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The charge of voter suppression carries the accusation that it was intentional and deliberate. Being poorly managed, underestimating the turnout, not having enough workers, these are examples of perhaps unpreparedness, but not a deliberate attempt to try and prevent one group of people from voting.Halifax2TheMax said:
I disagree.mickeyrat said:Halifax2TheMax said:
I’d say waiting in line for 3 hours is a form of suppression, particularly when you compare population density of registered voters by precincts and subsequent distribution of polling place employees and voting machines. It’s well documented. Whether AOC’s claim in this particular instance is accurate, I don’t know. But it’s worth investigating and if found to be true, there should be remedies.mickeyrat said:
really want to know her definition of suppression...mrussel1 said:Turnout in Michigan was up 33% from 2016, yet it was voter suppression
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/487383-ocasio-cortez-rampant-voter-suppression-contributed-to-sanderss-loss-inmy counter would be, despite a higher registered voter number, the election boards prepare based on historical turnout i.e. number of poll workers and machines at a given location.further, there is no way to predict, along with actual turnout, just what time a set of voters will actually appear.so the states either put up the cash to have enough machines in place for all eligible voters, registered or not. And have an equal number of volunteers on hand to meet that potential demand. or the voters put ul with the inconvenience consistantly to force states to to put up the cash to meet demand.this is driven by citizen apathy not sinister motives although that can also play a role.0 -
Incompetence and malice are so hard to tell apart sometimes, and these days I feel the blurred lines are used strategically.mrussel1 said:
The charge of voter suppression carries the accusation that it was intentional and deliberate. Being poorly managed, underestimating the turnout, not having enough workers, these are examples of perhaps unpreparedness, but not a deliberate attempt to try and prevent one group of people from voting.Halifax2TheMax said:
I disagree.mickeyrat said:Halifax2TheMax said:
I’d say waiting in line for 3 hours is a form of suppression, particularly when you compare population density of registered voters by precincts and subsequent distribution of polling place employees and voting machines. It’s well documented. Whether AOC’s claim in this particular instance is accurate, I don’t know. But it’s worth investigating and if found to be true, there should be remedies.mickeyrat said:
really want to know her definition of suppression...mrussel1 said:Turnout in Michigan was up 33% from 2016, yet it was voter suppression
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/487383-ocasio-cortez-rampant-voter-suppression-contributed-to-sanderss-loss-inmy counter would be, despite a higher registered voter number, the election boards prepare based on historical turnout i.e. number of poll workers and machines at a given location.further, there is no way to predict, along with actual turnout, just what time a set of voters will actually appear.so the states either put up the cash to have enough machines in place for all eligible voters, registered or not. And have an equal number of volunteers on hand to meet that potential demand. or the voters put ul with the inconvenience consistantly to force states to to put up the cash to meet demand.this is driven by citizen apathy not sinister motives although that can also play a role.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
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There has been a fair amount of crying wolf over voter fraud, rigged elections, voter suppression, etc. these last few years. We are inevitably going to have a no-bullshit case of one of the above and no one is going to believe it.0
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Michigan has mail in voting and same day voting. When voting surges 30%, you're going to have lines. While not perfect, it's not the reason Bernie didn't win one county. Not ONE county.benjs said:
Incompetence and malice are so hard to tell apart sometimes, and these days I feel the blurred lines are used strategically.mrussel1 said:
The charge of voter suppression carries the accusation that it was intentional and deliberate. Being poorly managed, underestimating the turnout, not having enough workers, these are examples of perhaps unpreparedness, but not a deliberate attempt to try and prevent one group of people from voting.Halifax2TheMax said:
I disagree.mickeyrat said:Halifax2TheMax said:
I’d say waiting in line for 3 hours is a form of suppression, particularly when you compare population density of registered voters by precincts and subsequent distribution of polling place employees and voting machines. It’s well documented. Whether AOC’s claim in this particular instance is accurate, I don’t know. But it’s worth investigating and if found to be true, there should be remedies.mickeyrat said:
really want to know her definition of suppression...mrussel1 said:Turnout in Michigan was up 33% from 2016, yet it was voter suppression
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/487383-ocasio-cortez-rampant-voter-suppression-contributed-to-sanderss-loss-inmy counter would be, despite a higher registered voter number, the election boards prepare based on historical turnout i.e. number of poll workers and machines at a given location.further, there is no way to predict, along with actual turnout, just what time a set of voters will actually appear.so the states either put up the cash to have enough machines in place for all eligible voters, registered or not. And have an equal number of volunteers on hand to meet that potential demand. or the voters put ul with the inconvenience consistantly to force states to to put up the cash to meet demand.this is driven by citizen apathy not sinister motives although that can also play a role.0 -
JimmyV said:
I don't disagree, but if the goal is to bring the party together, then let's dispense with the idea that this was of the people, by the people. This was orchestrated. Maybe for the best, but orchestrated nonetheless.Lerxst1992 said:JimmyV said:
I'm going to vote for Biden in the fall, but this is a bit of a spin on what happened. Biden won South Carolina and the party decided he was the choice. Pete and Amy getting out at the same time and endorsing him was smart politics, but it was also orchestrated. That happened before Super Tuesday, not after.mrussel1 said:
I'll say it a different way. The 50% of the country who dislike Trump and are generally members of the Democratic party were given a choice. Do we want to make this election about Trump or about democratic socialistic ideals. The people spoke clear and unequivocally and said they want to make it about Trump. And they decided Biden was the man to lead that fight. Respect the process.static111 said:
I'm starting to think you are a bot with intentions of actually turning people away from voting DCM189191 said:
Get it out now. Biden will still need your vote in November. You'll have to get over yourself before then.static111 said:
What an inspiring messageCM189191 said:static111 said:
That was pre shaming. Brought on by my view that beating Trump is the most important thing at this point. If the strategy is to shame people into supporting Biden I think Trump has already won. In fact for some people shaming may have the opposite effect. Why not give people positive reasons to support Biden outside of the tired “He’s not Trump” argument. Joe has a long way to go to unify the left before November. At least Bernie staying in the race will give Biden some debate practice.CM189191 said:
See? Shaming people does work.static111 said:
Did you not see where I said I will be voting for Biden or is your head way up in there admiring your own brand?CM189191 said:
Get it out now. Biden will still need your vote in November. You'll have to get over yourself before then.static111 said:
Because shaming people works....🤷♂️HughFreakingDillon said:https://twitter.com/oneminutecall/status/1237690798046695424
read this whole thread. especially bernie supporters.
Lets not forget lesser of two evils voting has gotten us to this point. For the R side Trump isn’t the lesser of two evils he is straight up their guy. I would prefer that Biden and co make the case that he is our guy and not just the best non Trump option we are gonna get.Focus. Stay on message. Don't get distracted by shiny objects and whataboutism.This election is a referendum on Trump.It's a referendum on Trump's policy.It's a referendum on Trump's nepotism.It's referendum on Trump's corruption.
Let's not forget the GOP 2016 hesitation is the only reason trump is president.
He was barely at 35% and the "normal" republicans combined would have beaten him by 30 points. At the time most GOP pundits were saying for months dont worry when its 1 on 1 we will beat trump. That never happened.
Having the major political parties nominate someone because there are fewer extremist candidates is dangerous.
I'm hoping most see trump and the toxic divisiveness as proof. Thankfully the dems acted quickly as to not give sanders this unfair advantage.
But please remember they didnt give Biden an unfair advantage. Super tuesday was 2 vs 2. Sanders had every chance to prove there were more progressives in the party.
If anything, Sanders proved much of his 2016 support was protest Hillary vote.0 -
no bullshitpjl44 said:There has been a fair amount of crying wolf over voter fraud, rigged elections, voter suppression, etc. these last few years. We are inevitably going to have a no-bullshit case of one of the above and no one is going to believe it.
Trump adviser tells Wisconsin Republicans that GOP has ‘traditionally’ relied on voter suppression but will ‘start playing offense’ in 2020
https://www.chicagotribune.com/midwest/ct-trump-gop-wisconsin-voter-suppression-20191221-wm6pi27zufctxmbe6gx4i2r4ce-story.html
“Traditionally it’s always been Republicans suppressing votes in places,” Justin Clark, a senior political adviser and senior counsel to Trump’s re-election campaign, said at the event. “Let’s start protecting our voters. We know where they are. ... Let’s start playing offense a little bit. That’s what you’re going to see in 2020. It’s going to be a much bigger program, a much more aggressive program, a much better-funded program.”Clark made the comments Nov. 21 in a meeting of the Republican National Lawyers Association’s Wisconsin chapter. Attendees included the state Senate's top Republican, Scott Fitzgerald, along with the executive director of the Wisconsin Republican Party.
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Ledbetterman10 said:This virus is going to get worse and it’s going to really hurt Trump politically. I thought around New Years that he couldn’t lose. But with this mishandled pandemic response, I think most reasonable undecided voters will have to think that Biden or Sanders would handle it better.
I agree but super tuesday showed... sorry m russ... enormous turnout in key areas that paralleled the 2018 blue wave.
If suburbs are sold blue zones now, the gop will need to maximize voter suppression to win national elections
But as you said covid is a game changer.0 -
Biden actually has been pulling closer. The late vote has gone to him. Under 7 points now. At first they were talking +20 sanders.mrussel1 said:
No, it wouldn't have helped. He won the state last Tuesday effectively, and it was baked into the narrative already.benjs said:
And if we weren't all collectively fixated on Covid19, that might've helped him bounce back, but it seems to be a hugely unimportant topic when the two are put side-by-side.Ledbetterman10 said:Sanders wins California0 -
mrussel1 said:
The charge of voter suppression carries the accusation that it was intentional and deliberate. Being poorly managed, underestimating the turnout, not having enough workers, these are examples of perhaps unpreparedness, but not a deliberate attempt to try and prevent one group of people from voting.Halifax2TheMax said:
I disagree.mickeyrat said:Halifax2TheMax said:
I’d say waiting in line for 3 hours is a form of suppression, particularly when you compare population density of registered voters by precincts and subsequent distribution of polling place employees and voting machines. It’s well documented. Whether AOC’s claim in this particular instance is accurate, I don’t know. But it’s worth investigating and if found to be true, there should be remedies.mickeyrat said:
really want to know her definition of suppression...mrussel1 said:Turnout in Michigan was up 33% from 2016, yet it was voter suppression
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/487383-ocasio-cortez-rampant-voter-suppression-contributed-to-sanderss-loss-inmy counter would be, despite a higher registered voter number, the election boards prepare based on historical turnout i.e. number of poll workers and machines at a given location.further, there is no way to predict, along with actual turnout, just what time a set of voters will actually appear.so the states either put up the cash to have enough machines in place for all eligible voters, registered or not. And have an equal number of volunteers on hand to meet that potential demand. or the voters put ul with the inconvenience consistantly to force states to to put up the cash to meet demand.this is driven by citizen apathy not sinister motives although that can also play a role.
If you poorly manage on purpose, say in minority neighborhoods?0 -
Do we really need to have a discussion about voter suppression?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Im not saying there's no such thing, I'm saying the charge in this case is specious.Lerxst1992 said:mrussel1 said:
The charge of voter suppression carries the accusation that it was intentional and deliberate. Being poorly managed, underestimating the turnout, not having enough workers, these are examples of perhaps unpreparedness, but not a deliberate attempt to try and prevent one group of people from voting.Halifax2TheMax said:
I disagree.mickeyrat said:Halifax2TheMax said:
I’d say waiting in line for 3 hours is a form of suppression, particularly when you compare population density of registered voters by precincts and subsequent distribution of polling place employees and voting machines. It’s well documented. Whether AOC’s claim in this particular instance is accurate, I don’t know. But it’s worth investigating and if found to be true, there should be remedies.mickeyrat said:
really want to know her definition of suppression...mrussel1 said:Turnout in Michigan was up 33% from 2016, yet it was voter suppression
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/487383-ocasio-cortez-rampant-voter-suppression-contributed-to-sanderss-loss-inmy counter would be, despite a higher registered voter number, the election boards prepare based on historical turnout i.e. number of poll workers and machines at a given location.further, there is no way to predict, along with actual turnout, just what time a set of voters will actually appear.so the states either put up the cash to have enough machines in place for all eligible voters, registered or not. And have an equal number of volunteers on hand to meet that potential demand. or the voters put ul with the inconvenience consistantly to force states to to put up the cash to meet demand.this is driven by citizen apathy not sinister motives although that can also play a role.
If you poorly manage on purpose, say in minority neighborhoods?0
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