The Democratic Presidential Debates

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,535
    A very important conclusion from the Times..

    "The losses in Michigan and Missouri were especially ominous for Mr. Sanders, because they suggested his strength among rural Midwestern voters in 2016 largely owed to their opposition to Mrs. Clinton. Against Mr. Biden, Mr. Sanders was trounced across the countryside of both states and saw working-class white voters, a pillar of his campaign four years ago, shift markedly away from him."
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,681
    mrussel1 said:
    There's no data that supports that conclusion.  Turnout surged in the states that Biden won.  He won in the suburbs, he won with the black community, middle age.  He crushed with women and ran even with white men. The demographics support the results.  It wasn't the "establishment", it was the Democratic voters. 
    I'm still nervous about Joe because well he is creepy and sometimes incoherent.  But he seems to be getting the voters that hillary didn't and which cost her the election.  So it looks ok?  For now????  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    I'm still nervous about Joe because well he is creepy and sometimes incoherent.  
    you misspelled trump
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,398
    Biden isn't creepy and Barack Obama wasn't a boogieman. We see people as we want to and then we react to them as we want to. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,681
    CM189191 said:
    you misspelled trump
    No I didnt.  Cause trump is creepy and always incoherent.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,681
    JimmyV said:
    Biden isn't creepy and Barack Obama wasn't a boogieman. We see people as we want to and then we react to them as we want to. 
    What the hell does obama have to do with any of this? And Biden is a creepy dude for sure.  Just not as creepy as trump
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,535
    I don't think you can underestimate how poorly HIllary did with white men.  Sanders dominated that vote in the primary and Trump in the general.  Biden has flipped that switch.  It's sexist in my opinion, but I can't change that.  The fact of the matter is that Biden's negatives are better than Hillary, Sanders and Trump.  That's important.  
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,398
    What the hell does obama have to do with any of this? And Biden is a creepy dude for sure.  Just not as creepy as trump
    Not saying you think Obama was a boogieman. He just represents a clear example of people seeing what they want to and reacting accordingly. Biden is old and his communication skills might be slipping. But to call him creepy is a projection. It's just not there. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,473
    mrussel1 said:
    I don't think you can underestimate how poorly HIllary did with white men.  Sanders dominated that vote in the primary and Trump in the general.  Biden has flipped that switch.  It's sexist in my opinion, but I can't change that.  The fact of the matter is that Biden's negatives are better than Hillary, Sanders and Trump.  That's important.  
    How do you feel about Biden stating outright that he would only be a one term president? I personally think there is a lot of upside there.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,535
    dignin said:
    How do you feel about Biden stating outright that he would only be a one term president? I personally think there is a lot of upside there.
    I think it's the practical reality of the situation.  My guess is they will be polling that question or concerns about his age and let that inform the decision.  I confess to not knowing what the right strategy is here.  But I think he should only do one term. 
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,473
    mrussel1 said:
    I think it's the practical reality of the situation.  My guess is they will be polling that question or concerns about his age and let that inform the decision.  I confess to not knowing what the right strategy is here.  But I think he should only do one term. 
    Is there another case in American history of a candidate doing this? 

    I don't know if it's the smart thing do do either, but it could also be brilliant for all I know.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,398
    Announcing he would only serve one term would have Democrats soft launching campaigns to be next on Day 1. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,196
    JimmyV said:
    Announcing he would only serve one term would have Democrats soft launching campaigns to be next on Day 1. 
    Bernie would be first. Haha.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    CM189191 said:
    you misspelled trump
    Clip clop?
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,398
    Bernie would be first. Haha.
    This is true.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,473
    JimmyV said:
    Announcing he would only serve one term would have Democrats soft launching campaigns to be next on Day 1. 
    What's wrong with that? 
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,398
    dignin said:
    What's wrong with that? 
    Maybe nothing, but I am in the camp that this all takes too long already. And that said, just because Democrats might do that doesn't necessarily mean Biden shouldn't make a one-term pledge. It's just a likely side effect that instantly came to mind. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,473
    JimmyV said:
    Maybe nothing, but I am in the camp that this all takes too long already. And that said, just because Democrats might do that doesn't necessarily mean Biden shouldn't make a one-term pledge. It's just a likely side effect that instantly came to mind. 
    No doubt, neverending elections in the US are a pain in the ass.
    Im of the opinion to do whatever it takes to win in November and deal with the fallout after that. 
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 10,167
    Isn't pledging one term acknowledging your fragility? If he isn't up to a 2024 run, why not make that decision then? Doesn't all that run counter to the notion that he is perfectly fine mentally and physically?
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,196
    pjl44 said:
    Isn't pledging one term acknowledging your fragility? If he isn't up to a 2024 run, why not make that decision then? Doesn't all that run counter to the notion that he is perfectly fine mentally and physically?
    With a strong VP, and knowing that people vote for Biden to "bring back normal" and not because they are heads over heels. Maybe it could be a strength with a two person team...
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,398
    dignin said:
    No doubt, neverending elections in the US are a pain in the ass.
    Im of the opinion to do whatever it takes to win in November and deal with the fallout after that. 
    I can't argue that strategy. Whatever it takes. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,535
    With a strong VP, and knowing that people vote for Biden to "bring back normal" and not because they are heads over heels. Maybe it could be a strength with a two person team...
    Everyone is bringing up good points, pro and con.  That's why Jimmy is right, it's a complicated question and uncharted territory.  I don't recall any president who ever made such a pledge.  
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 10,167
    With a strong VP, and knowing that people vote for Biden to "bring back normal" and not because they are heads over heels. Maybe it could be a strength with a two person team...
    But I think he can do all that anyway without a one term pledge
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    pjl44 said:
    Isn't pledging one term acknowledging your fragility? If he isn't up to a 2024 run, why not make that decision then? Doesn't all that run counter to the notion that he is perfectly fine mentally and physically?
    Agreed.  A pledge like this would be self-defeating.  Even if it's made after winning the election it would make Biden essentially lame duck.  

    Biden can acknowledge the health concerns by running a VP who would be immediately qualified to take the Presidency if anything were to happen coughamycough Then Biden can wait until 2024 to announce he's stepping aside and endorsing Amy/Pete.  
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,196
    edited March 2020
    pjl44 said:
    But I think he can do all that anyway without a one term pledge
    yeah I guess. 

    And I doubt anyone would campaign on the promise of just one term. Even if Biden and his team are set on one term being realistic.

    And everybody who thinks that Biden is a bit slower than before (perhaps a bit 77 year old senile) will take the VP into account anyways. 

    BIDEN/BERNIE 2020
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 10,167
    CM189191 said:
    Agreed.  A pledge like this would be self-defeating.  Even if it's made after winning the election it would make Biden essentially lame duck.  

    Biden can acknowledge the health concerns by running a VP who would be immediately qualified to take the Presidency if anything were to happen coughamycough Then Biden can wait until 2024 to announce he's stepping aside and endorsing Amy/Pete.  
    Yeah, right, let the voters connect those dots if they must
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,473
    pjl44 said:
    Isn't pledging one term acknowledging your fragility? If he isn't up to a 2024 run, why not make that decision then? Doesn't all that run counter to the notion that he is perfectly fine mentally and physically?
    Possibly, and good points.

    I think running as a one term would possibly satisfy the more progressive Democrats and even moderate on the fence Republicans. Knowing they will be back and start with a fresh slate in 4 years.

    There is upside there. Is it enough to weigh out the cons though.

  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,535
    dignin said:
    Possibly, and good points.

    I think running as a one term would possibly satisfy the more progressive Democrats and even moderate on the fence Republicans. Knowing they will be back and start with a fresh slate in 4 years.

    There is upside there. Is it enough to weigh out the cons though.

    Biden would have to announce it after the first year in office though, to give his fellow Democrats appropriate time to ramp up the modern day campaign machine.
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,316
    Sanders 1pm presser from VT

    Better be to endorse biden.
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