The Democratic Presidential Debates

mrussel1 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mrussel1 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

The Juggler said:

F Me In The Brain said:

The Juggler said:

Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad. 

Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost. 

Praising Fidel Castro. 

Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER. 

This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh. 

That he doesn't know what his plan will cost is frightful.  What a joke 😂

The scarier thing is that the extremist supporters don't care - it doesn't matter to them. (sound like another group?)

I don't think it mattered, overall, but Bernie is the worst option from this group to have a shot at beating Trump.

It also pains me to think I would ever vote for this guy, buy I prefer a change from Trump....even if it has to be the other extremist group in our country.

For sure. I would vote for Spiritual Chaos over Trump. Haha. 

But yeah, man. I never thought I’d vote for Hillary and now...this. Really sucks. 

I follow a lot of the Never Trumper people on Twitter. They’re coming out and saying they can’t vote for Bernie. 

It should be simple. Look how you flipped the house a year and a half ago. Just fucking do that again. You put up a democratic socialist against an authoritarian populist, it’s only going to divide the country further and leave even more people in the middle without a home. 

Yep.  I don't go on Twitter, nor give too many shits about the opinions of others when it comes to how I feel about this despicable orange human filth we have sitting as POTUS...

Last time around I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary, and I sure as shit wasn't voting for Trump.

Like many, I thought Hillary would win and I would be able to settle in and find someone to support who was more in line with my likes to support in 2020.  (I was a Rubio fan most before Donnie Darko took over.)

Instead I voted for the pothead from NM, Johnson, and tossed my vote away.  Felt very secure that Trump was not winning in NJ...which turned out to be the case.

This time, based on how many fucking idiots I see around me blindly supporting the racist wreck, I cannot make that bet, and I will (big, big, big, gulp) vote for a person who I disagree with on a huge percentage of his stances, but who I feel is a very decent human being.

As you point out from your Twitter research, my guess would also be that many Never Trumpers walk back that label and cannot support a socialist and vote for Donnie or at least do not vote, or vote 3rd party, which at this point is a vote for Donnie...knowing what we know.

As you stated many times, the Democratic party is a horrendous train wreck and seemingly want to lose to Donnie. 

Sad.

What will 2024 look like? 

I still say the majority of the part is center-left.  The problem is that we're splitting votes between candidates that are fundamentally offering the same policies, whereas Sanders has consolidated almost all of the 30% progressive vote.  

Could be, I don't know too much about it.  My wife, who has always been blue, is more center-left. 

So would that mean that everyone but 1-2 of the others need to drop out and leave the 2 extremist elderly folks and 1-2 of the other candidates (please not more elderly folks!) who represent the 'majority' of the party?

What does that look like?

Sanders

Warren

Which 1-2 do you pick?

Pete
Amy/Biden

mrussel1 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mrussel1 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

The Juggler said:

F Me In The Brain said:

The Juggler said:

Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad. 

Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost. 

Praising Fidel Castro. 

Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER. 

This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh. 

That he doesn't know what his plan will cost is frightful.  What a joke 😂

The scarier thing is that the extremist supporters don't care - it doesn't matter to them. (sound like another group?)

I don't think it mattered, overall, but Bernie is the worst option from this group to have a shot at beating Trump.

It also pains me to think I would ever vote for this guy, buy I prefer a change from Trump....even if it has to be the other extremist group in our country.

For sure. I would vote for Spiritual Chaos over Trump. Haha. 

But yeah, man. I never thought I’d vote for Hillary and now...this. Really sucks. 

I follow a lot of the Never Trumper people on Twitter. They’re coming out and saying they can’t vote for Bernie. 

It should be simple. Look how you flipped the house a year and a half ago. Just fucking do that again. You put up a democratic socialist against an authoritarian populist, it’s only going to divide the country further and leave even more people in the middle without a home. 

Yep.  I don't go on Twitter, nor give too many shits about the opinions of others when it comes to how I feel about this despicable orange human filth we have sitting as POTUS...

Last time around I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary, and I sure as shit wasn't voting for Trump.

Like many, I thought Hillary would win and I would be able to settle in and find someone to support who was more in line with my likes to support in 2020.  (I was a Rubio fan most before Donnie Darko took over.)

Instead I voted for the pothead from NM, Johnson, and tossed my vote away.  Felt very secure that Trump was not winning in NJ...which turned out to be the case.

This time, based on how many fucking idiots I see around me blindly supporting the racist wreck, I cannot make that bet, and I will (big, big, big, gulp) vote for a person who I disagree with on a huge percentage of his stances, but who I feel is a very decent human being.

As you point out from your Twitter research, my guess would also be that many Never Trumpers walk back that label and cannot support a socialist and vote for Donnie or at least do not vote, or vote 3rd party, which at this point is a vote for Donnie...knowing what we know.

As you stated many times, the Democratic party is a horrendous train wreck and seemingly want to lose to Donnie. 

Sad.

What will 2024 look like? 

I still say the majority of the part is center-left.  The problem is that we're splitting votes between candidates that are fundamentally offering the same policies, whereas Sanders has consolidated almost all of the 30% progressive vote.  

Could be, I don't know too much about it.  My wife, who has always been blue, is more center-left. 

So would that mean that everyone but 1-2 of the others need to drop out and leave the 2 extremist elderly folks and 1-2 of the other candidates (please not more elderly folks!) who represent the 'majority' of the party?

What does that look like?

Sanders

Warren

Which 1-2 do you pick?

Pete
Amy/Biden

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Obviously if you use the VA as the working model of gov't funded, and gov't provided medical care, it's doesn't really give any of us hope.  That has been terribly run, no matter who is the president.  And the Chair of VA Affairs at the time of the most controversial issues, that had to be undone by the Obama admin... that's right Bernie Sanders.

The VA is more of the British model and if that is what bernie is going for, he is being foolish.

I'd much prefer a blended system (but with an option for keeping status quo) that incorporates privately run facilities that are good enough for rand paul to travel to Canada for treatment 

I think the biggest issue is voting for trump is that would be voting for preexisting conditions and  privatizing traditional Medicare 

That's a gazillion times more important (to me) than figuring out if I'm losing 5 or 10 grand on bernies policies .

But not a single commenter here seems concerned. Oh well.

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Obviously if you use the VA as the working model of gov't funded, and gov't provided medical care, it's doesn't really give any of us hope.  That has been terribly run, no matter who is the president.  And the Chair of VA Affairs at the time of the most controversial issues, that had to be undone by the Obama admin... that's right Bernie Sanders.

The VA is more of the British model and if that is what bernie is going for, he is being foolish.

I'd much prefer a blended system (but with an option for keeping status quo) that incorporates privately run facilities that are good enough for rand paul to travel to Canada for treatment 

I think the biggest issue is voting for trump is that would be voting for preexisting conditions and  privatizing traditional Medicare 

That's a gazillion times more important (to me) than figuring out if I'm losing 5 or 10 grand on bernies policies .

But not a single commenter here seems concerned. Oh well.

I think we all understand the existential threat to care that Trump poses.  I feel like it's a given, and we're arguing of how much further we take Obamacare.  

But there are plenty of "traditional D voters " including a few on here, that are more nervous about Bernies  comparatively small cost annually vs potential financial ruin preexisting conditions or privatizing OA Medicare could bring

Even if bernie wins there are enough moderate D in congress that would bring his plan towards the center.

 But If trump wins vs Bernie, it will probably be a sweep of all DC like 2016 and we can kiss goodbye those bolded safety nets.

We are looking at the tree not the republican jungle. 

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Obviously if you use the VA as the working model of gov't funded, and gov't provided medical care, it's doesn't really give any of us hope.  That has been terribly run, no matter who is the president.  And the Chair of VA Affairs at the time of the most controversial issues, that had to be undone by the Obama admin... that's right Bernie Sanders.

The VA is more of the British model and if that is what bernie is going for, he is being foolish.

I'd much prefer a blended system (but with an option for keeping status quo) that incorporates privately run facilities that are good enough for rand paul to travel to Canada for treatment 

I think the biggest issue is voting for trump is that would be voting for preexisting conditions and  privatizing traditional Medicare 

That's a gazillion times more important (to me) than figuring out if I'm losing 5 or 10 grand on bernies policies .

But not a single commenter here seems concerned. Oh well.

I think we all understand the existential threat to care that Trump poses.  I feel like it's a given, and we're arguing of how much further we take Obamacare.  

But there are plenty of "traditional D voters " including a few on here, that are more nervous about Bernies  comparatively small cost annually vs potential financial ruin preexisting conditions or privatizing OA Medicare could bring

Even if bernie wins there are enough moderate D in congress that would bring his plan towards the center.

 But If trump wins vs Bernie, it will probably be a sweep of all DC like 2016 and we can kiss goodbye those bolded safety nets.

We are looking at the tree not the republican jungle. 

Yes, true for those few here that are contemplating crossing over.  I did make the same case to McGruff recently that there are checks in the Senate that would control Bernie.  There probably aren't 30 senators that would vote for M4A today.  Doesn't mean that won't change though.  Republicans have thrown their long held principles out the door. 

cincybearcat said:

pjl44 said:

cincybearcat said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

The Juggler said:

Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad. 

Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost. 

Praising Fidel Castro. 

Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER. 

This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh. 

In the end, hopefully it should cost the average person something like the blue bars in this graph instead of that winning red one. If you are lucky maybe people will live longer, and less babies will die when born also:

Changing the payor doesn't change the spending. How does he intend to reduce spending/costs?

Well I think part of it is removing a significant amount of administrative costs. They provide no value just wasted $. I certainly like that aspect. I also am fully on board with no pre-existing condition exclusions. And with people having access to heath care.

Im not an expert but my opinion is the move towards it at pace is better. Have it as an option, if it’s the best option more people will move to it.  

It certainly should be more of an unifying issue than it is really.  Now some of the other policies get pretty confrontational. 

What are "administrative costs" though, specifically? Where is money flowing today that it won't tomorrow? I agree with everything mrussel said, but also don't want to assume that you're interpreting it the same way as us.

The administrative staff at doctors offices...the administrators for every insurance company. Tracking all the different policies, what’s in what’s not, what need pre-approval, what % do we charge, where do we submit all this paperwork... all that non value added nonsense we get with the current system.