Listen....it LOOKS like it worked

Triberjay25 · January 2020

Gern Blansten said:

igotid88 said:

OceansJenny said:

https://events.ticketsmate.com/ResultsTicket.php?evtid=4358923&_ga=2.235722817.1934835916.1579934857-527558409.1579934857#open

Scalpers selling tickets by including the TM login in the sale.

Hope 10c finds them out. And releases those tickete

Those aren't 10c though....we don't know where we sit yet

I just wonder how they have pit tickets listed for the LA show?

Gern Blansten · January 2020

Triberjay25 said:

Gern Blansten said:

igotid88 said:

OceansJenny said:

https://events.ticketsmate.com/ResultsTicket.php?evtid=4358923&_ga=2.235722817.1934835916.1579934857-527558409.1579934857#open

Scalpers selling tickets by including the TM login in the sale.

Hope 10c finds them out. And releases those tickete

Those aren't 10c though....we don't know where we sit yet

I just wonder how they have pit tickets listed for the LA show?

I stand corrected....If a 10c member entered GA only and got tix then they would know for sure.

Yes those fuckers should be sought out and booted

ejk1280 · January 2020

People sell tickets they don’t have. Might be a scam or they are banking ticket prices today are more then they will be later and figure sell now and fill later when you purchase at a cheaper price.

Triberjay25 · January 2020

Gern Blansten said:

Triberjay25 said:
I just wonder how they have pit tickets listed for the LA show?

I stand corrected....If a 10c member entered GA only and got tix then they would know for sure.

Yes those fuckers should be sought out and booted

Agreed. I can only think whomever is the scalper is going as well and will walk these people in as the notes on the tickets say -
"Customer will meet rep at venue the night of the event"

MickeyMouse · January 2020

Triberjay25 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Triberjay25 said:
I just wonder how they have pit tickets listed for the LA show?

I stand corrected....If a 10c member entered GA only and got tix then they would know for sure.

Yes those fuckers should be sought out and booted

Agreed. I can only think whomever is the scalper is going as well and will walk these people in as the notes on the tickets say -
"Customer will meet rep at venue the night of the event"

Outside of NYC and CO that is the only way anyone would be able to sell that ticket.

ecdanc · January 2020

Triberjay25 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Triberjay25 said:
I just wonder how they have pit tickets listed for the LA show?

I stand corrected....If a 10c member entered GA only and got tix then they would know for sure.

Yes those fuckers should be sought out and booted

Agreed. I can only think whomever is the scalper is going as well and will walk these people in as the notes on the tickets say -
"Customer will meet rep at venue the night of the event"

How will this work? Wouldn't the scalper have to go into the show? So, we'd have one scalper attending the concert for each listing?

nicknyr15 · January 2020

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Triberjay25 said:

https://vipseats.com/search?q=pearl+jam

Starting to pop up on more major scalper sites. VIP Seats is a pretty well known legit site, they have tickets to every show......

It's the exact same software with the exact same ticket listings as the link provided above.

Honestly? Good. I have no other way of getting to these gigs. So I’m glad they’re showing up on these sites.

Sigh.

Sigh what? Did you get tickets through the lottery? I didn’t. So what? I shouldn’t buy on stubhub if I can’t score an extra pair from a fellow member, who isn’t trying to trade an extra pair for another show? I don’t get the sigh

Sigh because you're glad there's scalping so you can go to the show. That's shortsighted, selfish, and a big reason why scalping "works." We have, on one hand, the band trying to minimize (and, ideally, eliminate) scalping. On the other hand, we have fans saying "fuck that: I gotta get mine." So, yeah: sigh.

So then I shouldn’t go? That’s what you’re saying. Don’t go to the show? It’s selfish to spend my money on a concert through the secondary market? Wow. Ok. Shortsighted?

yes, yes, in most cases, and yes.

I’m actually blown away by this response. To each his own. I consciously didn’t go to a lot of concerts last year with the mindset that 2019 will be a big PJ year. Real balls to look down upon someone who is spending their hard earned money on something that brings them joy. No matter how frivolous it may seem to you. I feel sorry for you.

Gern Blansten · January 2020

ecdanc said:

Triberjay25 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Triberjay25 said:
I just wonder how they have pit tickets listed for the LA show?

I stand corrected....If a 10c member entered GA only and got tix then they would know for sure.

Yes those fuckers should be sought out and booted

Agreed. I can only think whomever is the scalper is going as well and will walk these people in as the notes on the tickets say -
"Customer will meet rep at venue the night of the event"

How will this work? Wouldn't the scalper have to go into the show? So, we'd have one scalper attending the concert for each listing?

If I'm a 10c member that won two GA tix then yes...I would enter the show with you and attend myself

I guess there is really no way to stop that type of scalping

ecdanc · January 2020

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Triberjay25 said:

https://vipseats.com/search?q=pearl+jam

Starting to pop up on more major scalper sites. VIP Seats is a pretty well known legit site, they have tickets to every show......

It's the exact same software with the exact same ticket listings as the link provided above.

Honestly? Good. I have no other way of getting to these gigs. So I’m glad they’re showing up on these sites.

Sigh.

Sigh what? Did you get tickets through the lottery? I didn’t. So what? I shouldn’t buy on stubhub if I can’t score an extra pair from a fellow member, who isn’t trying to trade an extra pair for another show? I don’t get the sigh

Sigh because you're glad there's scalping so you can go to the show. That's shortsighted, selfish, and a big reason why scalping "works." We have, on one hand, the band trying to minimize (and, ideally, eliminate) scalping. On the other hand, we have fans saying "fuck that: I gotta get mine." So, yeah: sigh.

So then I shouldn’t go? That’s what you’re saying. Don’t go to the show? It’s selfish to spend my money on a concert through the secondary market? Wow. Ok. Shortsighted?

yes, yes, in most cases, and yes.

I’m actually blown away by this response. To each his own. I consciously didn’t go to a lot of concerts last year with the mindset that 2019 will be a big PJ year. Real balls to look down upon someone who is spending their hard earned money on something that brings them joy. No matter how frivolous it may seem to you. I feel sorry for you.

It's nothing against you personally. I just don't think one can see scalping as bad in the aggregate (as I do) without also judging individual instances as bad.

ecdanc · January 2020

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

Triberjay25 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Triberjay25 said:
I just wonder how they have pit tickets listed for the LA show?

I stand corrected....If a 10c member entered GA only and got tix then they would know for sure.

Yes those fuckers should be sought out and booted

Agreed. I can only think whomever is the scalper is going as well and will walk these people in as the notes on the tickets say -
"Customer will meet rep at venue the night of the event"

How will this work? Wouldn't the scalper have to go into the show? So, we'd have one scalper attending the concert for each listing?

If I'm a 10c member that won two GA tix then yes...I would enter the show with you and attend myself

I guess there is really no way to stop that type of scalping

This requirement then would, at very least, seem to significantly hamper professional scalpers.

erocshifty · January 2020

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

Triberjay25 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Triberjay25 said:
I just wonder how they have pit tickets listed for the LA show?

I stand corrected....If a 10c member entered GA only and got tix then they would know for sure.

Yes those fuckers should be sought out and booted

Agreed. I can only think whomever is the scalper is going as well and will walk these people in as the notes on the tickets say -
"Customer will meet rep at venue the night of the event"

How will this work? Wouldn't the scalper have to go into the show? So, we'd have one scalper attending the concert for each listing?

If I'm a 10c member that won two GA tix then yes...I would enter the show with you and attend myself

I guess there is really no way to stop that type of scalping

Which is why I'm glad 10C still charges for a membership. MetClub became free in 2016. Granted, I got grandfathered in with "Legacy" status, but I imagine tons of people are creating accounts just to be able to scalp tickets & flip limited edition merch.

ejk1280 · January 2020

With all this leftist talk I would hope none of you are 10 club members. To be part of a paid society of privilege would be very very very hypocritical

ecdanc · January 2020

ejk1280 said:

With all this leftist talk I would hope none of you are 10 club members. To be part of a paid society of privilege would be very very very hypocritical

I don't think you understand Leftism very well...

ejk1280 · January 2020

ecdanc said:

ejk1280 said:

With all this leftist talk I would hope none of you are 10 club members. To be part of a paid society of privilege would be very very very hypocritical

I don't think you understand Leftism very well...

And for that I’m thankful

ecdanc · January 2020

ejk1280 said:

ecdanc said:

ejk1280 said:

With all this leftist talk I would hope none of you are 10 club members. To be part of a paid society of privilege would be very very very hypocritical

I don't think you understand Leftism very well...

And for that I’m thankful

I too revel in my own ignorance.

Lostpawn · January 2020

I said this yesterday to someone who called this concert drop an ”embarrassment”:

It hasn’t been an embarrassment. It’s been an unmitigated success. Scalping shut down for all but 2 shows. Sellouts for all shows, at face. What more do you want? I know the answer... tickets for yourself. But when demand exceeds supply, some folks miss out. I’m sad for those that do. But a little bit less sad for those who can’t find any other way to deal with it than to complain on this forum.

tdawe · January 2020

ecdanc said:

tdawe said:

ecdanc said:

MickeyMouse said:

Bentleyspop said:

Triberjay25 said:

https://vipseats.com/search?q=pearl+jam

Starting to pop up on more major scalper sites. VIP Seats is a pretty well known legit site, they have tickets to every show......

It's the exact same software with the exact same ticket listings as the link provided above.

Yea most professional scalpers/brokers will list their inventory across all platforms.

Again, the system worked. The percentage of tickets on the secondary market is remarkably low, which is what they wanted.

It sounds to me while reading this thread that some people are slowly realizing that scalpers are a necessary evil. For years all I read on this board were "bots and scalpers ruin it for everyone! Die!" and now all I see are "you know, this really hurts the people who didn't get tickets because now we have nowhere to go to get them..."

Necessary? In the sense that people with the funds/motivation to buy from scalpers need them to get into shows, I suppose you're right. But let's imagine a world without scalping. How do the shows/crowds themselves differ? Some people are shut out, but others get in. Who gets in might look marginally different (better? worse?). I think the "necessary evil" bit is implicit fatalism coupled with insidious classism.

I’m not sure whether these questions were rhetorical or not, but to me at least the answers are not clear. Even if you try to set aside you own particular interests and view it objectively, I think how you look at it depends on both how you conceptualize the distribution of fans relative to their ability to avail themselves of the optionality offered by the scalping market (which, as @MickeyMouse points out, will differ depending not just on the distribution of cash among the fans but on what kind of markup we’re talking about, which depends on the supply/demand dynamics of the particular show) AND how you think about the fairness of the face value ticket price. If you set the face value as the “default” price and think of the scalping market as offering tickets at unfairly high rates, it looks one way. If you think about the secondary market as establishing the “fair” price based on supply and demand, and the initial “face value” sales as essentially a lottery for discounted tickets, it looks another way.

The above paragraph is based on a process-oriented approach toward this question, but your questions also suggest a potential outcome-oriented approach (under which system would the shows be better?) that I’d prefer not to engage with, because to me it necessarily involves a level of insidious (if not invidious) classism (i.e. rich fans are somehow worse as fans).

For what it’s worth, I think you and I tend to have the same sympathies and at least on an intellectual level I’d prefer a world with less or no scalping, and I support the band’s efforts in this regard and applaud their success. But also, as someone who could afford to do it if I wanted I sure wish I could hop on StubHub and grab some tickets for Baltimore.

I appreciate your response and ideas, but this curmudgeonly Leftist must say I'm not sure how much our sympathies align, because I'd never even entertain the notion that the market or supply and demand are reconcilable with fairness. Markets are, by definition, unfair. So, my disdain for the secondary market comes from creating an even less palatable market on top of another.

Ok, so the questions were rhetorical. Sorry for wasting everyone’s time.

I tried to choose my words carefully and say we had similar sympathies (rather than “we agree”) because I think you and I both tend to think that the right criterion for judging the extent to which ticket systems are “fair” is the extent to which they result in the most face-value tickets ending up in the hands of people who want to attend the show. My point was that that is (obviously) not the only conception of fairness, and furthermore that there is space to adopt a different definition of fairness that doesn’t simply resolve to “economic might makes right,” and people of good faith could, under certain assumptions, conclude that the availability of a robust secondary market increases overall “fairness” for reasons other than “fuck you I want mine.”

Taken to the extreme, I think your comment here could be read as completely foreclosing the possibility that any ticket system that operates within the larger economic systems prevailing in the US (and I’d say at least the rest of the portions of the planet that Pearl Jam is likely to play) could be considered “fair” and that any further analysis is useless. Even a system where free, 100% non-transferable tickets were raffled off would privilege those of us who have computers with which to enter it, jobs that allow us to attend the show, access to child care, etc. On the one hand that’s kind of a non-sequiter, on the other once you admit the possibility of fairness within those constraints, were just haggling about the proverbial price.

Triberjay25 · January 2020

ecdanc said:

Triberjay25 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Triberjay25 said:
I just wonder how they have pit tickets listed for the LA show?

I stand corrected....If a 10c member entered GA only and got tix then they would know for sure.

Yes those fuckers should be sought out and booted

Agreed. I can only think whomever is the scalper is going as well and will walk these people in as the notes on the tickets say -
"Customer will meet rep at venue the night of the event"

How will this work? Wouldn't the scalper have to go into the show? So, we'd have one scalper attending the concert for each listing?

That, or there will be some shady character with 20 cell phones walking in with a crowd of people......

mace1229 · January 2020

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Triberjay25 said:

https://vipseats.com/search?q=pearl+jam

Starting to pop up on more major scalper sites. VIP Seats is a pretty well known legit site, they have tickets to every show......

It's the exact same software with the exact same ticket listings as the link provided above.

Honestly? Good. I have no other way of getting to these gigs. So I’m glad they’re showing up on these sites.

Sigh.

Sigh what? Did you get tickets through the lottery? I didn’t. So what? I shouldn’t buy on stubhub if I can’t score an extra pair from a fellow member, who isn’t trying to trade an extra pair for another show? I don’t get the sigh

Sigh because you're glad there's scalping so you can go to the show. That's shortsighted, selfish, and a big reason why scalping "works." We have, on one hand, the band trying to minimize (and, ideally, eliminate) scalping. On the other hand, we have fans saying "fuck that: I gotta get mine." So, yeah: sigh.

I don’t get calling him selfish. Have you never paid above face value for a show you couldn’t get tickets for?
You can apply that logic to anything, have you ever paid above face for a poster? Well that’s why people flip posters.
Now I’m glad the band does what they can to minimize scalping, but I’m not going to shame someone who’s willing to do what they have to.

But no matter what people will always be shut out of shows. If there’s 10,000 seats and 20,000 who want to go, people are going to miss out.

ecdanc · January 2020

tdawe said:

ecdanc said:

tdawe said:

ecdanc said:

MickeyMouse said:

Bentleyspop said:

Triberjay25 said:

https://vipseats.com/search?q=pearl+jam

Starting to pop up on more major scalper sites. VIP Seats is a pretty well known legit site, they have tickets to every show......

It's the exact same software with the exact same ticket listings as the link provided above.

Yea most professional scalpers/brokers will list their inventory across all platforms.

Again, the system worked. The percentage of tickets on the secondary market is remarkably low, which is what they wanted.

It sounds to me while reading this thread that some people are slowly realizing that scalpers are a necessary evil. For years all I read on this board were "bots and scalpers ruin it for everyone! Die!" and now all I see are "you know, this really hurts the people who didn't get tickets because now we have nowhere to go to get them..."

Necessary? In the sense that people with the funds/motivation to buy from scalpers need them to get into shows, I suppose you're right. But let's imagine a world without scalping. How do the shows/crowds themselves differ? Some people are shut out, but others get in. Who gets in might look marginally different (better? worse?). I think the "necessary evil" bit is implicit fatalism coupled with insidious classism.

I’m not sure whether these questions were rhetorical or not, but to me at least the answers are not clear. Even if you try to set aside you own particular interests and view it objectively, I think how you look at it depends on both how you conceptualize the distribution of fans relative to their ability to avail themselves of the optionality offered by the scalping market (which, as @MickeyMouse points out, will differ depending not just on the distribution of cash among the fans but on what kind of markup we’re talking about, which depends on the supply/demand dynamics of the particular show) AND how you think about the fairness of the face value ticket price. If you set the face value as the “default” price and think of the scalping market as offering tickets at unfairly high rates, it looks one way. If you think about the secondary market as establishing the “fair” price based on supply and demand, and the initial “face value” sales as essentially a lottery for discounted tickets, it looks another way.

The above paragraph is based on a process-oriented approach toward this question, but your questions also suggest a potential outcome-oriented approach (under which system would the shows be better?) that I’d prefer not to engage with, because to me it necessarily involves a level of insidious (if not invidious) classism (i.e. rich fans are somehow worse as fans).

For what it’s worth, I think you and I tend to have the same sympathies and at least on an intellectual level I’d prefer a world with less or no scalping, and I support the band’s efforts in this regard and applaud their success. But also, as someone who could afford to do it if I wanted I sure wish I could hop on StubHub and grab some tickets for Baltimore.

I appreciate your response and ideas, but this curmudgeonly Leftist must say I'm not sure how much our sympathies align, because I'd never even entertain the notion that the market or supply and demand are reconcilable with fairness. Markets are, by definition, unfair. So, my disdain for the secondary market comes from creating an even less palatable market on top of another.

Ok, so the questions were rhetorical. Sorry for wasting everyone’s time.

I tried to choose my words carefully and say we had similar sympathies (rather than “we agree”) because I think you and I both tend to think that the right criterion for judging the extent to which ticket systems are “fair” is the extent to which they result in the most face-value tickets ending up in the hands of people who want to attend the show. My point was that that is (obviously) not the only conception of fairness, and furthermore that there is space to adopt a different definition of fairness that doesn’t simply resolve to “economic might makes right,” and people of good faith could, under certain assumptions, conclude that the availability of a robust secondary market increases overall “fairness” for reasons other than “fuck you I want mine.”

Taken to the extreme, I think your comment here could be read as completely foreclosing the possibility that any ticket system that operates within the larger economic systems prevailing in the US (and I’d say at least the rest of the portions of the planet that Pearl Jam is likely to play) could be considered “fair” and that any further analysis is useless. Even a system where free, 100% non-transferable tickets were raffled off would privilege those of us who have computers with which to enter it, jobs that allow us to attend the show, access to child care, etc. On the one hand that’s kind of a non-sequiter, on the other once you admit the possibility of fairness within those constraints, were just haggling about the proverbial price.

I do sincerely appreciate thoughtful responses, so I apologize if I'm coming across as dickish (to you, at least--I'm happy to be dickish to some others). I imagine we're approaching the entire issue from fundamentally different starting points, because, yeah, "any ticket system that operates" under capitalism is unfair. I don't think that necessarily makes all further analysis useless. We can still say X is worse than Y, while recognizing that X and Y are both bad. I guess my point then--as my sleep-deprived mind struggles to recall it--is simply that the frame you offered for reconceptualizing fairness relied on underpinning notions of the market. From my perspective, if the market is fundamentally unfair, the creation of a secondary market that reproduces in magnified form the inequalities of the original market can only be...more unfair.

Listen....it LOOKS like it worked

Comments

Categories