Listen....it LOOKS like it worked

ecdanc

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Triberjay25 said:

https://vipseats.com/search?q=pearl+jam

Starting to pop up on more major scalper sites.  VIP Seats is a pretty well known legit site, they have tickets to every show......

It's  the exact same software with the exact same ticket listings as the link provided above.

Honestly? Good. I have no other way of getting to these gigs. So I’m glad they’re showing up on these sites. 

Sigh. 

Sigh what? Did you get tickets through the lottery? I didn’t. So what? I shouldn’t buy on stubhub if I can’t score an extra pair from a fellow member,  who isn’t trying to trade an extra pair for another show? I don’t get the sigh 

Sigh because you're glad there's scalping so you can go to the show. That's shortsighted, selfish, and a big reason why scalping "works." We have, on one hand, the band trying to minimize (and, ideally, eliminate) scalping. On the other hand, we have fans saying "fuck that: I gotta get mine." So, yeah: sigh. 

ecdanc

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

Lerxst1992 said:

GreenDiseaseFree said:

Fellow 10Cs
while I share the anxiety, disappointment, frustration we all have gone through this last week or so regarding leg 1 of this tour: 10C request, verified fan sucking, public on sale with the goddamn blue man walking, or staying put, “2000+ in front of you”, and all the crap, I didn’t see anyone post something very interesting I noticed tonight:
As of this post, about 10 hours after the public on sale, ONLY New York and Denver are showing tickets on StubHub.
Specifically,  MSG only has 34 GA tickets posted, Denver only 4 tickets in GA
While there are over 300 total tickets for MSG listed (for now) that many or most of you deserve over the fucking dirtbags that steal and resell our much sought after tickets, can’t this be looked at as an actual overall victory?

339 total MSG tickets posted is a small number compared to the whole arena.
Zero postings for Baltimore
Zero postings for STL
Zero postings for Nashville (which I personally was shut out of in 10C, verified fan, and public sale)
Zero postings for OKC, Oakland
Anyway, while the resell market is not limited to StubHub, my point is, doesn’t this appear, at least at a first glance, this process worked for us all?

The majority of the tickets “look” to be in the hands of the Faithfull, and that, to me anyway, shows that this whole thing might just have worked the way it’s was intended. 

I have to obviously note to myself that in a week, this post may backfire on me, but I fucking hate scalpers, I hate TM even more for “feeing” the shit out of reasonable concert tickets, and just overall being dicks, but I cannot help but feel like the band and this process did in fact work more for us than against us.
Am I missing something at this time and ranted for no reason?

Their goal in ticketing life is to eliminate scalping.

but several decisions they made created the worst scalping situation in the history of concerts.

when you insist on your right to play where you want and not line up with demand, and in effect play zero shows in the east, and limit the power of fans to buy and sell, you get the MSG debacle of 2020. For the record books.

Serious question: wouldn't refusing to play in NY (and CO, and any other states with similar transferability laws) be a solution? Yes, playing more shows might ameliorate things, but adding another MSG show wouldn't eliminate the secondary market. So, setting aside the scalpers' efforts to find workarounds for the other shows (like we're seeing on Ebay), wouldn't playing only in states where they can restrict resale to the F2F system solve the problem you describe?

No way. Msg doesn’t need PJ to play that building. They’ll be fine without them. One band , no matter how big, will not make a dent. 

The problem Lerxst describes is jacked up Pearl Jam ticket prices, not ALL scalping. 

JimmyV

The solution is to play Boston, Hartford and Philly. High hopes for the fall.

Lerxst1992

ecdanc said:

Lerxst1992 said:

GreenDiseaseFree said:

Fellow 10Cs
while I share the anxiety, disappointment, frustration we all have gone through this last week or so regarding leg 1 of this tour: 10C request, verified fan sucking, public on sale with the goddamn blue man walking, or staying put, “2000+ in front of you”, and all the crap, I didn’t see anyone post something very interesting I noticed tonight:
As of this post, about 10 hours after the public on sale, ONLY New York and Denver are showing tickets on StubHub.
Specifically,  MSG only has 34 GA tickets posted, Denver only 4 tickets in GA
While there are over 300 total tickets for MSG listed (for now) that many or most of you deserve over the fucking dirtbags that steal and resell our much sought after tickets, can’t this be looked at as an actual overall victory?

339 total MSG tickets posted is a small number compared to the whole arena.
Zero postings for Baltimore
Zero postings for STL
Zero postings for Nashville (which I personally was shut out of in 10C, verified fan, and public sale)
Zero postings for OKC, Oakland
Anyway, while the resell market is not limited to StubHub, my point is, doesn’t this appear, at least at a first glance, this process worked for us all?

The majority of the tickets “look” to be in the hands of the Faithfull, and that, to me anyway, shows that this whole thing might just have worked the way it’s was intended. 

I have to obviously note to myself that in a week, this post may backfire on me, but I fucking hate scalpers, I hate TM even more for “feeing” the shit out of reasonable concert tickets, and just overall being dicks, but I cannot help but feel like the band and this process did in fact work more for us than against us.
Am I missing something at this time and ranted for no reason?

Their goal in ticketing life is to eliminate scalping.

but several decisions they made created the worst scalping situation in the history of concerts.

when you insist on your right to play where you want and not line up with demand, and in effect play zero shows in the east, and limit the power of fans to buy and sell, you get the MSG debacle of 2020. For the record books.

Serious question: wouldn't refusing to play in NY (and CO, and any other states with similar transferability laws) be a solution? Yes, playing more shows might ameliorate things, but adding another MSG show wouldn't eliminate the secondary market. So, setting aside the scalpers' efforts to find workarounds for the other shows (like we're seeing on Ebay), wouldn't playing only in states where they can restrict resale to the F2F system solve the problem you describe?

Excellent question. I hate scalping but 9 times out of 10 it offers reasonable options when I am not available or aware at the exact instant of a concert going on sale. Punishing fans in certain locations could backfire in a significant manner. It really stinks when they did that to NC.

their decisions create the perfect storm, They  tour on a comparatively limited basis, spread the shows out everywhere to see and interact with the world, limit distribution of a high % of seats directly to their fan club, and insist on one of the lowest prices for a prime act. These are all incredibly noble wants in life, but in its wake we get the toughest ticketing situation anywhere.


edit, I guess the solution I’d to play enough shows in the highest demand region to split the lottery into small enough pieces or skip the area entirely. And I won for Balt.

MickeyMouse

JimmyV said:

The solution is to play Boston, Hartford and Philly. High hopes for the fall.

When you break it down that really is a big part of the solution. I said it already - the system isn’t the problem. It’s that they knowingly chose to play 2 shows in the northeast for this leg. 

ejk1280

The fact that someone is willing to spend their own money which for all you know may be the last dime they own or may be .00000000000000000000001% of what they have in the bank isn’t anyone else’s business.  The mindset that these people are horrendous humans is frightening.  If someone values a Pearl Jam concert over their mortgage then fine it’s none of my business.  

Lerxst1992

Gern Blansten said:

I am really curious how the F2F works out.  Obviously in a restricted market the scalpers won't be scooping up these tickets for the same reasons mentioned above (i.e. who the hell is going to pay for a ticketmaster login) and it might just end up being perfect.

This might be the true solution to scalping.  If so I like it.

I like the F2F concept but my guess it will be just like the Ticketmaster drop yesterday late afternoon. By the time it’s there it’s gone for the East shows.

tdawe

ecdanc said:

MickeyMouse said:

Bentleyspop said:

Triberjay25 said:

https://vipseats.com/search?q=pearl+jam

Starting to pop up on more major scalper sites.  VIP Seats is a pretty well known legit site, they have tickets to every show......

It's  the exact same software with the exact same ticket listings as the link provided above.

Yea most professional scalpers/brokers will list their inventory across all platforms. 

Again, the system worked. The percentage of tickets on the secondary market is remarkably low, which is what they wanted. 

It sounds to me while reading this thread that some people are slowly realizing that scalpers are a necessary evil. For years all I read on this board were "bots and scalpers ruin it for everyone! Die!" and now all I see are "you know, this really hurts the people who didn't get tickets because now we have nowhere to go to get them..."

Necessary? In the sense that people with the funds/motivation to buy from scalpers need them to get into shows, I suppose you're right. But let's imagine a world without scalping. How do the shows/crowds themselves differ? Some people are shut out, but others get in. Who gets in might look marginally different (better? worse?). I think the "necessary evil" bit is implicit fatalism coupled with insidious classism.  

I’m not sure whether these questions were rhetorical or not, but to me at least the answers are not clear. Even if you try to set aside you own particular interests and view it objectively, I think how you look at it depends on both how you conceptualize the distribution of fans relative to their ability to avail themselves of the optionality offered by the scalping market (which, as @MickeyMouse points out, will differ depending not just on the distribution of cash among the fans but on what kind of markup we’re talking about, which depends on the supply/demand dynamics of the particular show) AND how you think about the fairness of the face value ticket price. If you set the face value as the “default” price and think of the scalping market as offering tickets at unfairly high rates, it looks one way. If you think about the secondary market as establishing the “fair” price based on supply and demand, and the initial “face value” sales as essentially a lottery for discounted tickets, it looks another way. 

The above paragraph is based on a process-oriented approach toward this question, but your questions also suggest a potential outcome-oriented approach (under which system would the shows be better?) that I’d prefer not to engage with, because to me it necessarily involves a level of insidious (if not invidious) classism (i.e. rich fans are somehow worse as fans). 

For what it’s worth, I think you and I tend to have the same sympathies and at least on an intellectual level I’d prefer a world with less or no scalping, and I support the band’s efforts in this regard and applaud their success. But also, as someone who could afford to do it if I wanted I sure wish I could hop on StubHub and grab some tickets for Baltimore. 

nicknyr15

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Triberjay25 said:

https://vipseats.com/search?q=pearl+jam

Starting to pop up on more major scalper sites.  VIP Seats is a pretty well known legit site, they have tickets to every show......

It's  the exact same software with the exact same ticket listings as the link provided above.

Honestly? Good. I have no other way of getting to these gigs. So I’m glad they’re showing up on these sites. 

Sigh. 

Sigh what? Did you get tickets through the lottery? I didn’t. So what? I shouldn’t buy on stubhub if I can’t score an extra pair from a fellow member,  who isn’t trying to trade an extra pair for another show? I don’t get the sigh 

Sigh because you're glad there's scalping so you can go to the show. That's shortsighted, selfish, and a big reason why scalping "works." We have, on one hand, the band trying to minimize (and, ideally, eliminate) scalping. On the other hand, we have fans saying "fuck that: I gotta get mine." So, yeah: sigh. 

So then I shouldn’t go? That’s what you’re saying. Don’t go to the show? It’s selfish to spend my money on a concert through the secondary market? Wow. Ok. Shortsighted? 

Lowlight

MickeyMouse said:

JimmyV said:

The solution is to play Boston, Hartford and Philly. High hopes for the fall.

When you break it down that really is a big part of the solution. I said it already - the system isn’t the problem. It’s that they knowingly chose to play 2 shows in the northeast for this leg. 

Great point.  Supply issue.  This creates a situation where some are willing to pay above face value.  They can’t do anything really right now about the supply issue, they know that, and so use fan to fan to control the secondary market and prevent, to the best they can, selling tickets above face.

JBob87

It’s so blatantly obvious that this is a supply issue more than anything else. If there were 3-4 more Northeast dates MSG and Baltimore would be more reasonable and more 10c would have spread their first priorities out across more shows meaning less people would be completely shut out. 

Im decently confident that the Fall will alleviate this issue.

Gern Blansten

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I am really curious how the F2F works out.  Obviously in a restricted market the scalpers won't be scooping up these tickets for the same reasons mentioned above (i.e. who the hell is going to pay for a ticketmaster login) and it might just end up being perfect.

This might be the true solution to scalping.  If so I like it.

I like the F2F concept but my guess it will be just like the Ticketmaster drop yesterday late afternoon. By the time it’s there it’s gone for the East shows.

Possibly....but remember tickets will be popping up all the time.  There will likely be a mad rush when it opens (people ditching 10c tix or TM tix that they doubled up on) then a random stream of postings, then another mad rush closer to the dates as people who have changed plans will start selling tix.

This could be really good.

igotid88

OceansJenny said:

https://events.ticketsmate.com/ResultsTicket.php?evtid=4358923&_ga=2.235722817.1934835916.1579934857-527558409.1579934857#open

Scalpers selling tickets by including the TM login in the sale.

Hope 10c finds them out. And releases those tickete

Gern Blansten

igotid88 said:

OceansJenny said:

https://events.ticketsmate.com/ResultsTicket.php?evtid=4358923&_ga=2.235722817.1934835916.1579934857-527558409.1579934857#open

Scalpers selling tickets by including the TM login in the sale.

Hope 10c finds them out. And releases those tickete

Those aren't 10c though....we don't know where we sit yet

Gern Blansten

That chart for Baltimore does make me wonder how those fuckers got the jump on us....when I logged in there wasn't shit after those 2000 fuckers in front of me

herogroundzero

MickeyMouse said:

Of course it worked. The silent majority agrees with you. The loudest people on this forum are the ones who aren't thinking logically or clearly and are acting like the band and Ticketmaster just killed their family and ate their dog.

Less than 2% of MSG tickets are on StubHub. The fans won. There is no debate or argument to be made against that. Numbers don't lie. Just because YOU didn't win, doesn't mean the new system is flawed.

MOST people who requested tickets in the lotto got them. Just like they said. They (reportedly) doubled the amount of tickets for 10C. That's incredible. This is above and beyond any other fan club I know of. 

The fan-to-fan exchange for the other shows deterred scalpers because there is no money to be made.

Ticket prices are marginally more than for the 2016 tour and in line (or less) than other major "legacy" touring bands.

The majority of complaints I've read on this board the past few weeks come from people who are uninformed, assume they know better, or are just entitled and self-centered beyond anything I've ever seen.

Had this been a traditional tour with 2 night in NY, 2 in Philly, Boston, etc., the praise on this forum would be near universal. The problem isn't the system, it's the lack of shows they chose to do on this first leg that led to demand far outweighing supply in VERY FEW cities. 

right on. i totally give credit where credit is due. pj have risen the occasion big time. single tickets for 10c included. makes me pretty fucking proud they go to such great lengths to make sure stubhub gets fucked over...

nicknyr15

Gern Blansten said:

That chart for Baltimore does make me wonder how those fuckers got the jump on us....when I logged in there wasn't shit after those 2000 fuckers in front of me

The absolute worst part about scalpers , imo, is that we are not on even playing fields. They constantly have technology that we cannot compete with. 

Gern Blansten

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

That chart for Baltimore does make me wonder how those fuckers got the jump on us....when I logged in there wasn't shit after those 2000 fuckers in front of me

The absolute worst part about scalpers , imo, is that we are not on even playing fields. They constantly have technology that we cannot compete with. 

yeah they clearly have multiple log ins, using veiled IP addresses to get by TM, etc.

fuckers

ecdanc

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

nicknyr15 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Triberjay25 said:

https://vipseats.com/search?q=pearl+jam

Starting to pop up on more major scalper sites.  VIP Seats is a pretty well known legit site, they have tickets to every show......

It's  the exact same software with the exact same ticket listings as the link provided above.

Honestly? Good. I have no other way of getting to these gigs. So I’m glad they’re showing up on these sites. 

Sigh. 

Sigh what? Did you get tickets through the lottery? I didn’t. So what? I shouldn’t buy on stubhub if I can’t score an extra pair from a fellow member,  who isn’t trying to trade an extra pair for another show? I don’t get the sigh 

Sigh because you're glad there's scalping so you can go to the show. That's shortsighted, selfish, and a big reason why scalping "works." We have, on one hand, the band trying to minimize (and, ideally, eliminate) scalping. On the other hand, we have fans saying "fuck that: I gotta get mine." So, yeah: sigh. 

So then I shouldn’t go? That’s what you’re saying. Don’t go to the show? It’s selfish to spend my money on a concert through the secondary market? Wow. Ok. Shortsighted? 

yes, yes, in most cases, and yes. 

ecdanc

tdawe said:

ecdanc said:

MickeyMouse said:

Bentleyspop said:

Triberjay25 said:

https://vipseats.com/search?q=pearl+jam

Starting to pop up on more major scalper sites.  VIP Seats is a pretty well known legit site, they have tickets to every show......

It's  the exact same software with the exact same ticket listings as the link provided above.

Yea most professional scalpers/brokers will list their inventory across all platforms. 

Again, the system worked. The percentage of tickets on the secondary market is remarkably low, which is what they wanted. 

It sounds to me while reading this thread that some people are slowly realizing that scalpers are a necessary evil. For years all I read on this board were "bots and scalpers ruin it for everyone! Die!" and now all I see are "you know, this really hurts the people who didn't get tickets because now we have nowhere to go to get them..."

Necessary? In the sense that people with the funds/motivation to buy from scalpers need them to get into shows, I suppose you're right. But let's imagine a world without scalping. How do the shows/crowds themselves differ? Some people are shut out, but others get in. Who gets in might look marginally different (better? worse?). I think the "necessary evil" bit is implicit fatalism coupled with insidious classism.  

I’m not sure whether these questions were rhetorical or not, but to me at least the answers are not clear. Even if you try to set aside you own particular interests and view it objectively, I think how you look at it depends on both how you conceptualize the distribution of fans relative to their ability to avail themselves of the optionality offered by the scalping market (which, as @MickeyMouse points out, will differ depending not just on the distribution of cash among the fans but on what kind of markup we’re talking about, which depends on the supply/demand dynamics of the particular show) AND how you think about the fairness of the face value ticket price. If you set the face value as the “default” price and think of the scalping market as offering tickets at unfairly high rates, it looks one way. If you think about the secondary market as establishing the “fair” price based on supply and demand, and the initial “face value” sales as essentially a lottery for discounted tickets, it looks another way. 

The above paragraph is based on a process-oriented approach toward this question, but your questions also suggest a potential outcome-oriented approach (under which system would the shows be better?) that I’d prefer not to engage with, because to me it necessarily involves a level of insidious (if not invidious) classism (i.e. rich fans are somehow worse as fans). 

For what it’s worth, I think you and I tend to have the same sympathies and at least on an intellectual level I’d prefer a world with less or no scalping, and I support the band’s efforts in this regard and applaud their success. But also, as someone who could afford to do it if I wanted I sure wish I could hop on StubHub and grab some tickets for Baltimore. 

I appreciate your response and ideas, but this curmudgeonly Leftist must say I'm not sure how much our sympathies align, because I'd never even entertain the notion that the market or supply and demand are reconcilable with fairness. Markets are, by definition, unfair. So, my disdain for the secondary market comes from creating an even less palatable market on top of another.