Listen....it LOOKS like it worked

Gern Blansten

F Me In The Brain said:

pjhawks said:

is there any other product you buy but the seller has the right to deny what you get to do with said purchase after the transaction is complete? Why do tickets get this power? 

Bath salts?
Mattress tags?

health insurance

ecdanc

Gern Blansten said:

F Me In The Brain said:

pjhawks said:

is there any other product you buy but the seller has the right to deny what you get to do with said purchase after the transaction is complete? Why do tickets get this power? 

Bath salts?
Mattress tags?

health insurance

Airline tickets. 

oftenreading

nicknyr15 said:

ecdanc said:

tdawe said:

ecdanc said:

tdawe said:

ecdanc said:

  I see, so the relevant question is not who gets the tickets or why, but who is profiting from it. In that case I guess it’s true that our sympathies are not in alignment, residing as mine do with the workaday hustlers of the secondary market over the corporate fatcats at Ticketmaster. 

Apologies if I misunderstood: I assumed the extra money was going to the band, not to TM (which should be fired into the sun). I’m a little skeptical of your image of the proletarian scalpers, so in that case I’ll change my choice to equally shitty. 

I was making a joke, sorry if that didn’t come through. We’re pretty far afield of the original point I think. 

No worries. I can’t recall the original point, so you’re probably right. 

Actually wait, I don’t know if we’re done.

In my hypothetical, presumably the non-transferable shows would be played to small crowds composed exclusively of people who could pay $5K per ticket, while the other shows would be played to arenas full of a combination of people willing to pay $5K up front and people who paid let’s say $500 on the open market. If I’m understanding your responses right, in your eyes the two are basically equivalent in their “fairness”, rewarding as they both do people who were able to get into the show via an exercise of their economic might, and therefore we must move to some other criteria (like who’s profiting) in order to judge which one is more desirable. 

But if those two hypothetical cases are equivalent, doesn’t it follow that the two possibilities under actual consideration here (broadly speaking, A World With Scalpers and Face Value Only World) are also equivalent, rewarding as they both do people who were able to get into the show via an exercise of their economic might?

Baby is napping, so here goes:

You're using some logical sleight of hand here, which I appreciate (been known to do so myself), but I'm not buying. You've set up an exaggerated hypothetical with two unpalatable options, then claimed (since I don't like either option) that the hypothetical is homologous to the actual. It's not, except in the broadest terms--certainly not to the level of equivalency you suggest. 

I will grant, however, that your point about shifting the criteria is well made, which gestures toward a greater complexity than I was originally detailing (that's mostly laziness on my part: I usually don't give internet conversations the same attention I would in other venues). I was using "fairness" as a sort of catch-all term (I don't think I'm the first one who used the word, so I might have just been picking up others' language) for something more like "justness"--a broader view that might be labeled "how Dan thinks the world should work." That umbrella view contains both fairness as "who gets into the show" and who makes the profit (if there must be a profit--in my ideal world, there would be none), along with other things, I'm sure. 

So, to return to the hypothetical vs. the actual, let's pretend for a moment we have a 10-point unjustness scale. I can't choose in your hypothetical because both options are say, a 6. I score them a 6, because both contain elements of the "who gets in" fairness with the "who makes money" part. For the actual, the secondary market option might be a 5 or a 6 for precisely the same reasons as the hypothetical, while the everything-is-face-value world is like a 1, because it includes only the baseline injustice (that some people can't afford tickets regardless). 

I fear the ground of our conversation is becoming a little blurry at this point, but I do admit I wasn't entirely clear on how I was evaluating things from the outset. At the same time, your hypothetical does not perfectly align with the actual because the act of exaggeration shifts significantly the "who gets in" calculus, whilst you simultaneously ignoring a broader matrix of evaluation. At the risk of sounding harsh, I'd add--regarding this last point--that I wonder if you're not purposely oversimplifying in an effort to "win," so to speak, rather than to have a genuine conversation. 

Guys how about moving this to private messages. 

Why? I’m enjoying reading it, and I imagine others are too. If not, they can skip. It’s relevant to the discussion, not an unrelated personal chat. 

JB273578

I hope they do not sell GA to the public. 

mcrok

"Expecting perfection, leaves a lot to ignore" - says Eddie Vedder about the new ticket process.

i am a target

OceansJenny said:

Chr1spy said:

jimjam1982 said:

BennyLaRue said:

jimjam1982 said:

Just curious.. GA is 10C only. Cant they revoke those tickets if they are being sold above face per 10C rules? I mean they can be transferred in NY and CO per law but the law shouldnt trump the face value restrictions applied by 10C regulations. I could be wrong though I'm not well versed on the laws.

How do you trace a GA ticket without a seat# or 10C number?

Good point. I guess it wouldn't be worth the headache but I'm sure there is a way to identify whose it was once the ticket is issued and scanned in. Anything electronic can be traced to a source. 

You could buy a cheaper item from the seller to get name and address I guess.

This seller is actually selling the login to his/her Ticketmaster account to get around the safetix. Do we know if they’ also checking ID at the door to match the account? Cause if so, if so... this won’t work... (but I haven’t seen that anywhere so I’m guessing they’re not).

They’re not going to check IDs at the door. The venues don’t want to spend more hours than necessary getting everyone in.

Not in my experience. The times I've had this kind of security in place they've always checked.

Ninetytworules

tdawe said:

MF117973 said:

My friend saw this on eBay. Apparently there are tickets to multiple shows listed there. I can only assume this lister got GA tickets from 10C since I doubt anyone got them from the public sale. Someone should set up a sting operation to catch these guys and make sure they don’t win any more 10C lotteries. 

To me, this eBay listing is the exception that proves the rule (“the rule” being that the nontransferability rules are keeping the scalpers out). If the scalpers thought they could make their money off this “send me 3 grand and I’ll send you a Ticketmaster login in March” arrangement” there would be hundreds or thousands of these postings. I have no first hand knowledge of the business but my hunch is that if you’re a scalper it’s critical to have your listings up the day of the public sale, to capture all the people who strike out on TM and just want to get tickets any way they can. 

Where’s Artie Buco??

F Me In The Brain

pjhawks said:

F Me In The Brain said:

pjhawks said:

is there any other product you buy but the seller has the right to deny what you get to do with said purchase after the transaction is complete? Why do tickets get this power? 

Bath salts?
Mattress tags?

Wait I can’t resell a mattress? 

Lol.
You can't cut off the tag.

The retailers cannot resell any returned mattresses, that is a law.

apirk72

C’mon you don’t want the mattress police coming after you