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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,657
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
    To each his or her own.
    But There is a Black & White answer.
    One of these days we will all find out.


    I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

    I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.
    Kudos striving for good is always better than evil.
    But one of these days, we are all going to get a big time answer when this Mystery Train reaches the end of the line & we won't have to wonder anymore.

    If that happens, RYME, so be it.  And if it happens, I'll have a lot of explaining to do.  My best guess is that the afterlife is whatever radio waves emanate out into the universe from my brain.  A good reason to have more good thoughts than bad!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    edited December 2019
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
    To each his or her own.
    But There is a Black & White answer.
    One of these days we will all find out.


    I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

    I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.
    Kudos striving for good is always better than evil.
    But one of these days, we are all going to get a big time answer when this Mystery Train reaches the end of the line & we won't have to wonder anymore.

    If that happens, RYME, so be it.  And if it happens, I'll have a lot of explaining to do.  My best guess is that the afterlife is whatever radio waves emanate out into the universe from my brain.  A good reason to have more good thoughts than bad!
    Well I think you know that I believe in the God of the 10 Commandments.
    Even if you don't believe in any God.  I think that most reasonable people would agree that If everybody tried to obey the Ten commandments, God or No God the world would be a much place.
    1.  No arguments about God
    2.  Nobody worships a stick
    3.  Nobody curses the're maker
    4.  Remember the Passover
    5.  Honor your mom & dad
    6.  No criminal homicide
    7.  No cheating
    8.  Don't steal
    9.  No slander
    10.  Be satisfied with what you have.
    What I'm trying to say is God or no God these rules would work for everyone.

    If everyone would obey these 10 simple rules, there probably would not have have been 1 war.  Think about it.
    Post edited by RYME on
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    edited December 2019
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.
    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    Post edited by RYME on
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
    To each his or her own.
    But There is a Black & White answer.
    One of these days we will all find out.


    I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

    I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.
    Kudos striving for good is always better than evil.
    But one of these days, we are all going to get a big time answer when this Mystery Train reaches the end of the line & we won't have to wonder anymore.

    If that happens, RYME, so be it.  And if it happens, I'll have a lot of explaining to do.  My best guess is that the afterlife is whatever radio waves emanate out into the universe from my brain.  A good reason to have more good thoughts than bad!
    Well I think you know that I believe in the God of the 10 Commandments.
    Even if you don't believe in any God.  I think that most reasonable people would agree that If everybody tried to obey the Ten commandments, God or No God the world would be a much place.
    1.  No arguments about God
    2.  Nobody worships a stick
    3.  Nobody curses the're maker
    4.  Remember the Passover
    5.  Honor your mom & dad
    6.  No criminal homicide
    7.  No cheating
    8.  Don't steal
    9.  No slander
    10.  Be satisfied with what you have.
    What I'm trying to say is God or no God these rules would work for everyone.

    If everyone would obey these 10 simple rules, there probably would not have have been 1 war.  Think about it.
    There would still be an abundance of child molestation, slavery, and racism/hatred, since those aren't mentioned.

    Aaaaaand there's the fact that most of those commandments are broken, in the Bible, under God's orders or at least with His approval.  Lots of wars.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    edited December 2019
    DELETED because this thread went off the rails.  
    Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,657
    I've always resisted the notion of commandments and, right or wrong, that's a part of my nature that will not likely change in this life time but the Ten Commandments I think make a pretty good list of Ways to Live By.

    My own list of Ways to Live By would go something like this (things I would try do myself, not force on others):

    1. Remember to respect this amazing planet that sustains all life.
    2.  Extend that kind of respect to every living thing and be amazed by life itself.
    3.  Do something that is useful, creative, helpful and /or beneficial.
    4.  Never lie unless doing so harms no one, benefits someone, and leaves you with no guilt.  And be honest with yourself as well.
    5.  Treat others as well and respectfully as possible and when you do act like a prick or a bitch to someone, try to remember to offset that with a good deed or kind word.
    6. Give a part of your soul to the arts.  The linear and mechanical already have there due.  Strike a balance that way.
    7.  Be satisfied with what you have [good one RYME and Moses] and maybe even learn to live with less.
    8.  When you do need to be a consumer, don't be cheap.  Durable is better for you, better for the planet.
    9.  Never stop trying to learn and grow.
    10.  Have fun and have a good sense of humor, but also know when to be serious or contemplative.




    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
    To each his or her own.
    But There is a Black & White answer.
    One of these days we will all find out.


    I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

    I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.
    Kudos striving for good is always better than evil.
    But one of these days, we are all going to get a big time answer when this Mystery Train reaches the end of the line & we won't have to wonder anymore.

    If that happens, RYME, so be it.  And if it happens, I'll have a lot of explaining to do.  My best guess is that the afterlife is whatever radio waves emanate out into the universe from my brain.  A good reason to have more good thoughts than bad!
    Well I think you know that I believe in the God of the 10 Commandments.
    1 God.  I tried to casually sumerise it up above.  Probably not the right thing for me to do rgambs. 
    Here they are
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20&version=KJV
    The Ten Commandments are just the foundation for good living.  The Bible deals with the issues of child molestation, rape & murder just not there.
    Even if you don't believe in any God.  I think everybody tried to obey the Ten commandments, God or No God the world would be a much place.
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    rgambs said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
    To each his or her own.
    But There is a Black & White answer.
    One of these days we will all find out.


    I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

    I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.
    Kudos striving for good is always better than evil.
    But one of these days, we are all going to get a big time answer when this Mystery Train reaches the end of the line & we won't have to wonder anymore.

    If that happens, RYME, so be it.  And if it happens, I'll have a lot of explaining to do.  My best guess is that the afterlife is whatever radio waves emanate out into the universe from my brain.  A good reason to have more good thoughts than bad!
    Well I think you know that I believe in the God of the 10 Commandments.
    Even if you don't believe in any God.  I think that most reasonable people would agree that If everybody tried to obey the Ten commandments, God or No God the world would be a much place.
    1.  No arguments about God
    2.  Nobody worships a stick
    3.  Nobody curses the're maker
    4.  Remember the Passover
    5.  Honor your mom & dad
    6.  No criminal homicide
    7.  No cheating
    8.  Don't steal
    9.  No slander
    10.  Be satisfied with what you have.
    What I'm trying to say is God or no God these rules would work for everyone.

    If everyone would obey these 10 simple rules, there probably would not have have been 1 war.  Think about it.
    There would still be an abundance of child molestation, slavery, and racism/hatred, since those aren't mentioned.

    Aaaaaand there's the fact that most of those commandments are broken, in the Bible, under God's orders or at least with His approval.  Lots of wars.
    This was covered in the five that got dropped.


    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
    To each his or her own.
    But There is a Black & White answer.
    One of these days we will all find out.


    I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

    I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.
    Kudos striving for good is always better than evil.
    But one of these days, we are all going to get a big time answer when this Mystery Train reaches the end of the line & we won't have to wonder anymore.

    If that happens, RYME, so be it.  And if it happens, I'll have a lot of explaining to do.  My best guess is that the afterlife is whatever radio waves emanate out into the universe from my brain.  A good reason to have more good thoughts than bad!
    Well I think you know that I believe in the God of the 10 Commandments.
    1 God.  I tried to casually sumerise it up above.  Probably not the right thing for me to do rgambs. 
    Here they are
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20&version=KJV
    The Ten Commandments are just the foundation for good living.  The Bible deals with the issues of child molestation, rape & murder just not there.
    Even if you don't believe in any God.  I think everybody tried to obey the Ten commandments, God or No God the world would be a much place.
    Of course it does, if by "deals with" you mean "openly endorses".  The Bible openly endorses child rape and slavery.  Period. 
    Full stop.
    End of story.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    If you don't believe in God, then disregard the first 4.
    5 - 10 good advice for everyone, and would eliminate most problems in society.
    5.  Honor thy father and thy mother.
    6.  Thou shalt not commit murder.
    7.  Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    8.  Thou shalt not steal.
    9.  Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
    10.  Thou shalt not covet.
    Have a good day!
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    rgambs said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
    To each his or her own.
    But There is a Black & White answer.
    One of these days we will all find out.


    I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

    I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.
    Kudos striving for good is always better than evil.
    But one of these days, we are all going to get a big time answer when this Mystery Train reaches the end of the line & we won't have to wonder anymore.

    If that happens, RYME, so be it.  And if it happens, I'll have a lot of explaining to do.  My best guess is that the afterlife is whatever radio waves emanate out into the universe from my brain.  A good reason to have more good thoughts than bad!
    Well I think you know that I believe in the God of the 10 Commandments.
    1 God.  I tried to casually sumerise it up above.  Probably not the right thing for me to do rgambs. 
    Here they are
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20&version=KJV
    The Ten Commandments are just the foundation for good living.  The Bible deals with the issues of child molestation, rape & murder just not there.
    Even if you don't believe in any God.  I think everybody tried to obey the Ten commandments, God or No God the world would be a much place.
    Of course it does, if by "deals with" you mean "openly endorses".  The Bible openly endorses child rape and slavery.  Period. 
    Full stop.
    End of story.
    Prove it.
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    edited December 2019
    for rape murder and child molestation the God of the Bible calls for capital punishment don't tell me that it endorses it in any way shape or form You know we've been all through this at nausea in the concept of God thread.
    Round and round we go.
    To each his own believe what you want.

    Post edited by RYME on
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,449
    the bible is pure fiction. humans had morality prior to it being written. it was only written as a means to control. nothing more. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,144
    edited December 2019
    RYME said:
    for rape murder and child molestation the God of the Bible calls for capital punishment don't tell me that it endorses it in any way shape or form You know we've been all through this at nausea in the concept of God thread.
    Round and round we go.
    To each his own believe what you want.

    So the all powerful god calls for capital punishment yet allows it to happen?  How powerful is that?  

    He either isn't all powerful or he is and doesn't do anything about it.

    Not interested
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
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  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    edited December 2019
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Post edited by OnWis97 on
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  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,144
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,449
    Gern Blansten said:
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    my brother says animals don't have souls. god gave humans consciousness and therefore a soul to serve him, and he gave animals to serve us. 

    I think the theory goes that we will see all our loved ones in heaven, but not in the same earthly context you mean here. we may or may not even have earthly memories, only that our souls were attached and it isn't like we'll all sitting around chatting like we are here. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,144
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    my brother says animals don't have souls. god gave humans consciousness and therefore a soul to serve him, and he gave animals to serve us. 

    I think the theory goes that we will see all our loved ones in heaven, but not in the same earthly context you mean here. we may or may not even have earthly memories, only that our souls were attached and it isn't like we'll all sitting around chatting like we are here. 
    well that's not what my pamphlet said....it was a nice summer day with carnivores strolling with humans and not eating them
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,449
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    two things:

    1) when my wife and I were first married, we got into a discussion (fight) about me not going to church with her family on important christian holidays (I did it for a while just to not rock the boat, but then I said "fuck it"). Her take was "what do you care? you don't believe in anything". That's how she was taught. That just because I don't believe in a god that I don't have any beliefs at all. That's the arrogance of the religious community; the absence of religion = the absence of belief/position. 

    to quote Josh Homme/QOTSA: My God Is The Sun

    2) the existence of hell depends on the specific religion. some christians believe in it, some don't. but I don't think most christians consider it "winning" if they end up in heaven and the rest of us end up in hell. that's why they try to convert us, so we can be in heaven with them. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.
    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.

    I personally am in the camp of thinking there is nothing after death. If I understand you here, you’re saying that it’s either nothing or the Christian god. Why would you assume that if there is a god, then it’s the god as conceptualized by Christians? Why do the Christians “win”?  Given all the many faiths that have been espoused since the beginning of humanity, and all their variance, if there is a god I don’t know why anyone would assume it would be of the Christian flavour. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf

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