Ongoing PG&E power outages

mickeyrat said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

real good arguement for solar etc at a residential level for sure and business as well.  All that roof space wasted.

I do think the execs at pge should not be getting bonuses year after year when the liabilty the company has faced in some of these fires from poor maintenance around certain trans lines, other aging infrastructure, etc.

ANY payout related to reasonably preventable causes by this company should negate any chance at bonuses.

Solar still requires a power grid to function for the near future. 

The equipment that is the "possible" cause of the Geyserville fires was inspected four times in the last two years.

So do all the inspectors not know how to identify faulty equipment?

Or is it more likely extreme weather conditions pushed equipment to operate dangerously very quickly?

So fierce 70mph hot winds are no longer to blame?

wind temperature is irrelevant. but the winds that do come , come regularly enough that there is a season for it no?

Do the inspector(s) ever get audited? checking on their work? ensuring all that needs checked is actually checked? may be the things TO inspect needs revised. thats a possibility. are the components found to be at fault autopsied to find the what and how? any changes need to happen there

its amazing to me how often utililties cry poor when it comes to maintenance and upgrades, yet post profit for shareholders and give multi-million dolkar bonuses year after year.

Fires will happen. Mitigating human causes as much as possible would be the goal. the roadblocks to inovation by these utilities is short sighted and only benefits the execs and shareholders..

not for nothing, your post comes across as if you are being defensive. are you employed by pge?

Utilities dont cry poor about costs paid for by ratepayers. If we are going to blame the risks of a desert climate and santa anna winds on the utility at least we can comment accurately as to how costs are approved and paid for?

Without a rate of return there is no utility. Without bonuses there are no executives. Without the utility there  are still dangerous conditions causing fire risk.

These fires are terrible, but they are happening more frequently and with a lot of destruction.  After a while I am reminded of the parable of the person who built their house on a sand foundation and the one who built on a rock foundation.

tempo_n_groove said:

Jason P said:

My next door neighbor installed solar panels on his house this past year.  He received credits for the panels from the government, although it was still a substantial investment by him.  I think he said he got back around 30% - 40% in credits.  The energy collected by his panels cannot be used directly (i.e. he can never run his house on it in a blackout).   By law it has to be sold directly back to the power company (at night rates) and then re-sold back (at a higher day price of course).

My neighbor is doing it in hopes of making an environmental impact.  I don't think he will ever break even on the financial impact unless he retires in the house.  Ironically he had to cut down several mature maple trees in his front yard so he can get direct sunlight for a few hours a day as his roof is not situated ideally to the giant burning orb in the sky.

The only way for you to have solar and be off grid is to buy the panels yourself and to have a battery backup where the solar energy is stored.

The utility company get's the energy that comes off the panels.

It's a pipe dream for most people to be off grid, hopefully one day.

California hopes to move to 100% renewable by 2045, but the majority of energy will still be generated at central locations and distributed on the grid.

100% renewable is still well outside our current technology and significant progress in solar energy storage and bringing the cost down. 

Tgere are 2 main problems with wide scale solar: Daily solar generation starts to drop off by half at about 5pm just as people are getting home and turning up ACs and stoves to cook dinner. 

Also Dec to Feb generation drops off about 50% from summer highs. So it's easy to get renewables to a theoretical 50 to 60% of all generation but it's that last ~ 40% when the inherent drop offs in generation occur that are projected to be prohibitively expensive. 

Lerxst1992 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Jason P said:

My next door neighbor installed solar panels on his house this past year.  He received credits for the panels from the government, although it was still a substantial investment by him.  I think he said he got back around 30% - 40% in credits.  The energy collected by his panels cannot be used directly (i.e. he can never run his house on it in a blackout).   By law it has to be sold directly back to the power company (at night rates) and then re-sold back (at a higher day price of course).

My neighbor is doing it in hopes of making an environmental impact.  I don't think he will ever break even on the financial impact unless he retires in the house.  Ironically he had to cut down several mature maple trees in his front yard so he can get direct sunlight for a few hours a day as his roof is not situated ideally to the giant burning orb in the sky.

The only way for you to have solar and be off grid is to buy the panels yourself and to have a battery backup where the solar energy is stored.

The utility company get's the energy that comes off the panels.

It's a pipe dream for most people to be off grid, hopefully one day.

California hopes to move to 100% renewable by 2045, but the majority of energy will still be generated at central locations and distributed on the grid.

100% renewable is still well outside our current technology and significant progress in solar energy storage and bringing the cost down. 

Tgere are 2 main problems with wide scale solar: Daily solar generation starts to drop off by half at about 5pm just as people are getting home and turning up ACs and stoves to cook dinner. 

Also Dec to Feb generation drops off about 50% from summer highs. So it's easy to get renewables to a theoretical 50 to 60% of all generation but it's that last ~ 40% when the inherent drop offs in generation occur that are projected to be prohibitively expensive. 

First, thanks to @tempo_n_groove for inviting me to this conversation -- otherwise, not sure I would have known it was here.  This has been a crazy couple of weeks in California.  I live in a heavily forested area in the foothills between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe.  My county has been identified as "the next Paradise" by some.  We have now had three power outages by PG&E.  It's been a total of 9 days of no power.  On top of that, my wife and I are both in education at the school my three kids attend -- no power means no school.  This new normal is not only affecting people's home life, it's affecting local businesses and all schools in my county.  I consider myself pretty lucky given the circumstances.  We have a gas stove, gas water heater, county water, and a trailer we use all the time for camping that has a propane refrigerator.  So when the power is out we can still make coffee on the stove top (most thankful for that), take a hot shower, and put our essential cold items in the trailer fridge.  We use a generator to keep our chest freezer going as that holds our locally raised beef.  There are many who have electric stoves, water from a well, and no way to keep items refrigerated.  Those folks are struggling during this time, or they need a generator powerful enough to operate all those things.  We're told this is the new normal for the next 10 years, yet there are nearby towns that use independent power companies and they don't lose power.  I think the future of California is either more independent power companies or... something that resembles a madmax movie.  The first time our power was out for three days there was one grocery store and one gas station open in my town (size approx 7, 500 people).  The scene at those two was apocalyptic like.  Since then, people prepare a little better.  That said, generators still have to be locked away or they disappear during the night.  I truly believe this is PG&E's "answer" to not being held accountable for another Paradise fire.  It feels like a little more CYA than a solid plan. 
We're expecting another outage tomorrow.  Our school may have to move the "summer" break to September/October if this is indeed the new normal.    

Lerxst1992 said:

vogonpoetbythelake said:

Oh no power means no shower?

Unless you want it ice cold.

During Sandy power was out about five days (we were very lucky). It was late october and warm before the storm but cold after. The house probably dropped below 60 in the week after the storm

 ...the best 5 minutes of my life that week was the one hot shower I was able to take at a friends job that had a workout room with a few showers.

We lost power for 11 days during Sandy.  I can’t beliebe it was Sven years ago today.