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Ongoing PG&E power outages

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  • First, thanks to @tempo_n_groove for inviting me to this conversation -- otherwise, not sure I would have known it was here.  This has been a crazy couple of weeks in California.  I live in a heavily forested area in the foothills between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe.  My county has been identified as "the next Paradise" by some.  We have now had three power outages by PG&E.  It's been a total of 9 days of no power.  On top of that, my wife and I are both in education at the school my three kids attend -- no power means no school.  This new normal is not only affecting people's home life, it's affecting local businesses and all schools in my county.  I consider myself pretty lucky given the circumstances.  We have a gas stove, gas water heater, county water, and a trailer we use all the time for camping that has a propane refrigerator.  So when the power is out we can still make coffee on the stove top (most thankful for that), take a hot shower, and put our essential cold items in the trailer fridge.  We use a generator to keep our chest freezer going as that holds our locally raised beef.  There are many who have electric stoves, water from a well, and no way to keep items refrigerated.  Those folks are struggling during this time, or they need a generator powerful enough to operate all those things.  We're told this is the new normal for the next 10 years, yet there are nearby towns that use independent power companies and they don't lose power.  I think the future of California is either more independent power companies or... something that resembles a madmax movie.  The first time our power was out for three days there was one grocery store and one gas station open in my town (size approx 7, 500 people).  The scene at those two was apocalyptic like.  Since then, people prepare a little better.  That said, generators still have to be locked away or they disappear during the night.  I truly believe this is PG&E's "answer" to not being held accountable for another Paradise fire.  It feels like a little more CYA than a solid plan. 
    We're expecting another outage tomorrow.  Our school may have to move the "summer" break to September/October if this is indeed the new normal.    
    “I suppose our capacity for self-delusion is boundless.” ― John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley: In Search of America
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 3,947
    Oh no power means no shower?

    Unless you want it ice cold.

    During Sandy power was out about five days (we were very lucky). It was late october and warm before the storm but cold after. The house probably dropped below 60 in the week after the storm

     ...the best 5 minutes of my life that week was the one hot shower I was able to take at a friends job that had a workout room with a few showers.


  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 24,642
    Oh no power means no shower?

    Unless you want it ice cold.

    During Sandy power was out about five days (we were very lucky). It was late october and warm before the storm but cold after. The house probably dropped below 60 in the week after the storm

     ...the best 5 minutes of my life that week was the one hot shower I was able to take at a friends job that had a workout room with a few showers.


    We lost power for 11 days during Sandy.  I can’t beliebe it was Sven years ago today. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    First, thanks to @tempo_n_groove for inviting me to this conversation -- otherwise, not sure I would have known it was here.  This has been a crazy couple of weeks in California.  I live in a heavily forested area in the foothills between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe.  My county has been identified as "the next Paradise" by some.  We have now had three power outages by PG&E.  It's been a total of 9 days of no power.  On top of that, my wife and I are both in education at the school my three kids attend -- no power means no school.  This new normal is not only affecting people's home life, it's affecting local businesses and all schools in my county.  I consider myself pretty lucky given the circumstances.  We have a gas stove, gas water heater, county water, and a trailer we use all the time for camping that has a propane refrigerator.  So when the power is out we can still make coffee on the stove top (most thankful for that), take a hot shower, and put our essential cold items in the trailer fridge.  We use a generator to keep our chest freezer going as that holds our locally raised beef.  There are many who have electric stoves, water from a well, and no way to keep items refrigerated.  Those folks are struggling during this time, or they need a generator powerful enough to operate all those things.  We're told this is the new normal for the next 10 years, yet there are nearby towns that use independent power companies and they don't lose power.  I think the future of California is either more independent power companies or... something that resembles a madmax movie.  The first time our power was out for three days there was one grocery store and one gas station open in my town (size approx 7, 500 people).  The scene at those two was apocalyptic like.  Since then, people prepare a little better.  That said, generators still have to be locked away or they disappear during the night.  I truly believe this is PG&E's "answer" to not being held accountable for another Paradise fire.  It feels like a little more CYA than a solid plan. 
    We're expecting another outage tomorrow.  Our school may have to move the "summer" break to September/October if this is indeed the new normal.    
    Hey there, you must be near us.  We're in Placervville (at work at The Bookery where we had power restored a few hours ago.  Still none at home.)

    Yes, this area is a big concern regarding fire.  I find this time of year unnerving every year.  In all my 68 years in California, I've never seen it so bad- and every year seems worse. 

    These outages have been really hard on  small businesses.  Ours is doing OK but definitely down.  Others here on Main Street are hurting big-time, especially restaurants that have been closed for day.  I'm told that each of these outages is costing the state's economy about $2 billion.  Not good!

    Hope you get power back soon!
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    Oh no power means no shower?

    Unless you want it ice cold.

    During Sandy power was out about five days (we were very lucky). It was late october and warm before the storm but cold after. The house probably dropped below 60 in the week after the storm

     ...the best 5 minutes of my life that week was the one hot shower I was able to take at a friends job that had a workout room with a few showers.


    We're on a well.  No power mean no shower, no water.  Hoping to grab a shower in twon today.  Otherwise, PEEYOO!
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • brianlux said:
    Hey there, you must be near us.  We're in Placervville (at work at The Bookery where we had power restored a few hours ago.  Still none at home.)

    Yes, this area is a big concern regarding fire.  I find this time of year unnerving every year.  In all my 68 years in California, I've never seen it so bad- and every year seems worse. 

    These outages have been really hard on  small businesses.  Ours is doing OK but definitely down.  Others here on Main Street are hurting big-time, especially restaurants that have been closed for day.  I'm told that each of these outages is costing the state's economy about $2 billion.  Not good!

    Hope you get power back soon!
    @ brianlux, 
    I'm in Nevada City in Nevada County -- not too far away.  Stay safe!  
    “I suppose our capacity for self-delusion is boundless.” ― John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley: In Search of America
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    brianlux said:
    Hey there, you must be near us.  We're in Placervville (at work at The Bookery where we had power restored a few hours ago.  Still none at home.)

    Yes, this area is a big concern regarding fire.  I find this time of year unnerving every year.  In all my 68 years in California, I've never seen it so bad- and every year seems worse. 

    These outages have been really hard on  small businesses.  Ours is doing OK but definitely down.  Others here on Main Street are hurting big-time, especially restaurants that have been closed for day.  I'm told that each of these outages is costing the state's economy about $2 billion.  Not good!

    Hope you get power back soon!
    @ brianlux, 
    I'm in Nevada City in Nevada County -- not too far away.  Stay safe!  
    Nevada City!  Very nice, Travels With!  I haven't gotten up that way since pulling out of Booktown in Grass Valley (got to be too much driving from Placerville).   Is Toad Hall Books still around?  Great little town!

    We're back up and running with electricity as of last night.  Sure will feel better though when the rains come!

    You stay safe too!
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,660
    Jason P said:
    My next door neighbor installed solar panels on his house this past year.  He received credits for the panels from the government, although it was still a substantial investment by him.  I think he said he got back around 30% - 40% in credits.  The energy collected by his panels cannot be used directly (i.e. he can never run his house on it in a blackout).   By law it has to be sold directly back to the power company (at night rates) and then re-sold back (at a higher day price of course).

    My neighbor is doing it in hopes of making an environmental impact.  I don't think he will ever break even on the financial impact unless he retires in the house.  Ironically he had to cut down several mature maple trees in his front yard so he can get direct sunlight for a few hours a day as his roof is not situated ideally to the giant burning orb in the sky.
    My parents went solar about a year ago (near Sacramento actually), and it was the same thing. I had no idea, but that is exactly the way they are set up. They basically sell their power to the company in the form of free power up to a certain amount.  But still relies on a company to control it.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    mace1229 said:
    Jason P said:
    My next door neighbor installed solar panels on his house this past year.  He received credits for the panels from the government, although it was still a substantial investment by him.  I think he said he got back around 30% - 40% in credits.  The energy collected by his panels cannot be used directly (i.e. he can never run his house on it in a blackout).   By law it has to be sold directly back to the power company (at night rates) and then re-sold back (at a higher day price of course).

    My neighbor is doing it in hopes of making an environmental impact.  I don't think he will ever break even on the financial impact unless he retires in the house.  Ironically he had to cut down several mature maple trees in his front yard so he can get direct sunlight for a few hours a day as his roof is not situated ideally to the giant burning orb in the sky.
    My parents went solar about a year ago (near Sacramento actually), and it was the same thing. I had no idea, but that is exactly the way they are set up. They basically sell their power to the company in the form of free power up to a certain amount.  But still relies on a company to control it.
    It's a pretty screwed up system! 

    In a few places, I'm told that when solar panels are installed on a house, the cost of the solar is tied to the mortgage.  That way, the present owner makes the payments on the solar and if they move, the solar payments continue on attached to the new mortgage paid by the new owner.  This makes perfectly good sense to me but is not at all common.  If it were, I think more people (including me, especially considering my age) could afford to go solar. 
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • My wife and I went with Vivint a couple years ago. Living here in Fresno, the brutal summers wreck havoc on your being and the electric bill is scary. We thought of buying solar but like a house, anything that goes wrong your paying for. We buy the power back from Vivint at a much lower price than PG&E and if there are problems, Vivint monitors and fixes the problem. Are bills are so much lower than before and the one thing I worried about was the true up at the end of the year but our biggest one has been about 250 dollars. I’ve heard horror stories of the true up. Still a good decision on our part. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    My wife and I went with Vivint a couple years ago. Living here in Fresno, the brutal summers wreck havoc on your being and the electric bill is scary. We thought of buying solar but like a house, anything that goes wrong your paying for. We buy the power back from Vivint at a much lower price than PG&E and if there are problems, Vivint monitors and fixes the problem. Are bills are so much lower than before and the one thing I worried about was the true up at the end of the year but our biggest one has been about 250 dollars. I’ve heard horror stories of the true up. Still a good decision on our part. 
    What is Vivint?  The only thing I find on Google is a home security outfit.
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • https://www.vivintsolar.com/state/california

    Hope that is helpful. Definitely shop around but we like it. If you ever plan on selling they told us they make it really easy for the home buyer to switch. We plan on moving to Washington state in a few years so the ability to sell our home weighed huge on the choice. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    https://www.vivintsolar.com/state/california

    Hope that is helpful. Definitely shop around but we like it. If you ever plan on selling they told us they make it really easy for the home buyer to switch. We plan on moving to Washington state in a few years so the ability to sell our home weighed huge on the choice. 
    I'll check it out.  Thank you!
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    9 mph winds predicted tonight and tomorrow and PG&E is going to shut down power again probably around midnight tonight.

    But hey, I get it.   NINE MILE PER HOUR WINDS! yikes

    I need to get going and board up the windows and nail down everything possible. The car isn't garaged- I hope it doesn't blow away. This is going to be worse than Katrina.

    OMG, I am SO FREAKED OUT!!!
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    Power outage cancelled.  WHOO HOO!
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,123
    brianlux said:
    9 mph winds predicted tonight and tomorrow and PG&E is going to shut down power again probably around midnight tonight.

    But hey, I get it.   NINE MILE PER HOUR WINDS! yikes

    I need to get going and board up the windows and nail down everything possible. The car isn't garaged- I hope it doesn't blow away. This is going to be worse than Katrina.

    OMG, I am SO FREAKED OUT!!!
    Be safe.  
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,123
    brianlux said:
    Power outage cancelled.  WHOO HOO!
    The wind speed is now manageable???
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    brianlux said:
    Power outage cancelled.  WHOO HOO!
    The wind speed is now manageable???
    The joke is that the power company warned of high winds but 9 MPH is just a breeze.  They don't know what they're doing. 

    Even when they DON'T shut the power down, life is disrupted.  Places like the cheese shop two doors down had to bring in their whole crew early in the morning to set up generators to keep the cooling going to avoid loosing their inventory... and then when the shut down is called off, restock everything.  Any small food related business has to deal with similar problems and complications.  People with special needs (power to run oxygen, etc.) also have this on and off again induced stress.  A shut down is hardest on local and state economies, but false warnings are problematic as well.  The whole business is screwed up.

    The ship called California is listing.  Are we a canary a the coal mine? 
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,158
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Power outage cancelled.  WHOO HOO!
    The wind speed is now manageable???
    The joke is that the power company warned of high winds but 9 MPH is just a breeze.  They don't know what they're doing. 

    Even when they DON'T shut the power down, life is disrupted.  Places like the cheese shop two doors down had to bring in their whole crew early in the morning to set up generators to keep the cooling going to avoid loosing their inventory... and then when the shut down is called off, restock everything.  Any small food related business has to deal with similar problems and complications.  People with special needs (power to run oxygen, etc.) also have this on and off again induced stress.  A shut down is hardest on local and state economies, but false warnings are problematic as well.  The whole business is screwed up.

    The ship called California is listing.  Are we a canary a the coal mine? 
    idea, state goes all in on solar and wind.  pge becomes a nonprofit utility. excess power is given to pge for sale. profits from that goes into the grid upkeep and refurbishment.

    perhaps eventually, excess gets sold nationally.....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Power outage cancelled.  WHOO HOO!
    The wind speed is now manageable???
    The joke is that the power company warned of high winds but 9 MPH is just a breeze.  They don't know what they're doing. 

    Even when they DON'T shut the power down, life is disrupted.  Places like the cheese shop two doors down had to bring in their whole crew early in the morning to set up generators to keep the cooling going to avoid loosing their inventory... and then when the shut down is called off, restock everything.  Any small food related business has to deal with similar problems and complications.  People with special needs (power to run oxygen, etc.) also have this on and off again induced stress.  A shut down is hardest on local and state economies, but false warnings are problematic as well.  The whole business is screwed up.

    The ship called California is listing.  Are we a canary a the coal mine? 
    idea, state goes all in on solar and wind.  pge becomes a nonprofit utility. excess power is given to pge for sale. profits from that goes into the grid upkeep and refurbishment.

    perhaps eventually, excess gets sold nationally.....
    Excellent idea!  Mickey Rat for the BIG PG&E TAKEOVER!

    Theme song:



    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,123
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,777
    edited November 2019
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?
    That would take years to complete, nobody would act on the recommendations, and most likely be another waste of money and time. 

    There are smart people out there.  They are called engineers.  They know what to do.  Nature and the universe are governed by equations.  What is more universal then electricity and fire?
    Post edited by Jason P on
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?
    Not to my knowledge.

    I did a quick search and, according to WSJ:

    Over more than two decades, the California utility has at times misled regulators, withheld data and hindered investigations—accumulating fines and judgments of $2.6 billion

    Jason P said:
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?
    That would take years to complete, nobody would act on the recommendations, and most likely be another waste of money and time. 

    There are smart people out there.  They are called engineers.  They know what to do.  Nature and the universe are governed by equations.  What is more universal then electricity and fire?
    Yeah, I agree, I'm pretty sure they know what NEEDED to be done.  Needed, but would have cost money and PG&E has been all about making tons of money for it executives and keeping it's investors happy.  This company needs to go adios!



    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,123
    brianlux said:
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?
    Not to my knowledge.

    I did a quick search and, according to WSJ:

    Over more than two decades, the California utility has at times misled regulators, withheld data and hindered investigations—accumulating fines and judgments of $2.6 billion

    Jason P said:
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?
    That would take years to complete, nobody would act on the recommendations, and most likely be another waste of money and time. 

    There are smart people out there.  They are called engineers.  They know what to do.  Nature and the universe are governed by equations.  What is more universal then electricity and fire?
    Yeah, I agree, I'm pretty sure they know what NEEDED to be done.  Needed, but would have cost money and PG&E has been all about making tons of money for it executives and keeping it's investors happy.  This company needs to go adios!



    That's just wrong.  Something needs to be done.  The government needs to step up enforcement...or take over the utility company (somehow).  Billions lost in the economy is nothing to sneeze at...not to mention the inconvenience to everyone ... kind of sad.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,158
    brianlux said:
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?
    Not to my knowledge.

    I did a quick search and, according to WSJ:

    Over more than two decades, the California utility has at times misled regulators, withheld data and hindered investigations—accumulating fines and judgments of $2.6 billion

    Jason P said:
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?
    That would take years to complete, nobody would act on the recommendations, and most likely be another waste of money and time. 

    There are smart people out there.  They are called engineers.  They know what to do.  Nature and the universe are governed by equations.  What is more universal then electricity and fire?
    Yeah, I agree, I'm pretty sure they know what NEEDED to be done.  Needed, but would have cost money and PG&E has been all about making tons of money for it executives and keeping it's investors happy.  This company needs to go adios!



    That's just wrong.  Something needs to be done.  The government needs to step up enforcement...or take over the utility company (somehow).  Billions lost in the economy is nothing to sneeze at...not to mention the inconvenience to everyone ... kind of sad.
    the company is bankrupt. the governor went so far as to ask warren buffet to have berkshire hathaway buy it......
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 3,947
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?


    In America we do not pay for new infrastructure. Even if they completely rebuilt the grid in California, there is still some  danger having live wires in a dry and windy climate.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?


    In America we do not pay for new infrastructure. Even if they completely rebuilt the grid in California, there is still some  danger having live wires in a dry and windy climate.
    What's frustrating to me is that when the opportunity arrives, power is not always placed underground.   Calif. Hwy 49, for example, is being re-routed slightly in Diamond Springs but they are going on the cheap and just putting in new wooden power poles and moving the lines instead of going underground.  It's always about what's cheap today.  In the long run, that means actually more expensive. 
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • 1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Calgary ABPosts: 3,016
    edited November 2019
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?
    Not to my knowledge.

    I did a quick search and, according to WSJ:

    Over more than two decades, the California utility has at times misled regulators, withheld data and hindered investigations—accumulating fines and judgments of $2.6 billion

    Jason P said:
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?
    That would take years to complete, nobody would act on the recommendations, and most likely be another waste of money and time. 

    There are smart people out there.  They are called engineers.  They know what to do.  Nature and the universe are governed by equations.  What is more universal then electricity and fire?
    Yeah, I agree, I'm pretty sure they know what NEEDED to be done.  Needed, but would have cost money and PG&E has been all about making tons of money for it executives and keeping it's investors happy.  This company needs to go adios!



    That's just wrong.  Something needs to be done.  The government needs to step up enforcement...or take over the utility company (somehow).  Billions lost in the economy is nothing to sneeze at...not to mention the inconvenience to everyone ... kind of sad.
    the company is bankrupt. the governor went so far as to ask warren buffet to have

    BHE would be interested if they found value in it. The future of the electrical grid in North America will rely on two things, reliability and customer service. These are two things BHE is very passionate about in their business model, along with sustainability, the environment and a safe workplace. 

    In Alberta we have invested heavily in new construction on the electrical grid while performing maintenance activities on our existing infrastructure.  There are locations along the BC border where dry windy conditions can cause lines to be shut down to minimize fire risk but this is very rare as our line clearances are heavily regulated, both from the ground and from transmission or distribution lines running perpendicular or parallel.  Our maintenance program demonstrates the companies’ due diligence in preventing wildfires.

    Government legislation in Alberta, the Alberta Forest and Prairie Protection Act, has strict fire prevention and response requirements and we (and contractors) supersede all of them.  The Act is very specific in that it holds company executives and the board of directors responsible for any negligence as it pertains to the Act.

    Renewable energy projects such as wind and solar are currently under construction in Southern Alberta with many more in the planning stages. BHE itself is investing in a large wind project near Medicine Hat, 

    Yes, I believe the grid is viable in the future.  I want so bad to buy a Rivian electric truck! I am hopeful BC, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Montana, Washington, Oregon and California can work together to provide energy where it is needed. The model exists between Manitoba and states south and between Quebec and New York. 

    Canada has plenty of clean energy to provide our US friends. Economically, it is advantageous to Canadians to export our surplus electricity which would drive further investment in renewables such as wind and solar, but also untapped possibilities such as biofuels, thermal and others yet conceived. 

    There truly is no need for rolling blackouts in North America in my opinion.  Some investment must be made to modernize the grid in California (I visited LA in April and was somewhat surprised by the crumbling infrastructure, particularly in the substations) and improve connectivity between states and provinces to provide electricity where it is required and minimize these rolling blackouts. 




    Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on
  • 1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Calgary ABPosts: 3,016
    edited November 2019
    brianlux said:
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?


    In America we do not pay for new infrastructure. Even if they completely rebuilt the grid in California, there is still some  danger having live wires in a dry and windy climate.
    What's frustrating to me is that when the opportunity arrives, power is not always placed underground.   Calif. Hwy 49, for example, is being re-routed slightly in Diamond Springs but they are going on the cheap and just putting in new wooden power poles and moving the lines instead of going underground.  It's always about what's cheap today.  In the long run, that means actually more expensive. 
    With all due respect, the cost to put high voltage transmission lines underground is extremely high. The lines must be encased in concrete with vaults at intermittent locations.  When one of the conductors of a three phase 138kV (or any other voltage) fails underground it is also more expensive to repair.
    Anything is possible but those costs are passed to the ratepayer. Proper intermittent patrolling (by land or helicopter for deficiencies) of wood pole structures and the conductors, insulators, dampeners and other hardware can ensure those lines are safe and can last decades. Nothing is perfect of course. But it’s unlikely all new construction would go underground.  There is too much shit buried for people to hit as it is. 
    Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,520
    brianlux said:
    Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?


    In America we do not pay for new infrastructure. Even if they completely rebuilt the grid in California, there is still some  danger having live wires in a dry and windy climate.
    What's frustrating to me is that when the opportunity arrives, power is not always placed underground.   Calif. Hwy 49, for example, is being re-routed slightly in Diamond Springs but they are going on the cheap and just putting in new wooden power poles and moving the lines instead of going underground.  It's always about what's cheap today.  In the long run, that means actually more expensive. 
    With all due respect, the cost to put high voltage transmission lines underground is extremely high. The lines must be encased in concrete with vaults at intermittent locations.  When one of the conductors of a three phase 138kV (or any other voltage) fails underground it is also more expensive to repair.
    Anything is possible but those costs are passed to the ratepayer. Proper intermittent patrolling (by land or helicopter for deficiencies) of wood pole structures and the conductors, insulators, dampeners and other hardware can ensure those lines are safe and can last decades. Nothing is perfect of course. But it’s unlikely all new construction would go underground.  There is too much shit buried for people to hit as it is. 
    First of all, there are plenty of places where power is run underground.  This is nothing new or unusual.

    Secondly, I don't really care about the cost up front.  I'm talking about long-term costs.  Above ground costs are cheaper up front but in the long run?  I don't think so.   What about the cost of repairing downed lines, poles hit by drunk drivers, lightning strikes, erosion and corrosion, etc.?   What about the cost of all the loss of life and property by the Camp Fire in Paradise California in 2018? 

    Cheap is never better.  Cheap is one of the biggest things that will bring down civilization.  I know, this sounds exaggerated, histrionic even.  But not to me.  To me it sounds logical.
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










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