Ongoing PG&E power outages

brianlux

pearljammr78 said:

My wife and I went with Vivint a couple years ago. Living here in Fresno, the brutal summers wreck havoc on your being and the electric bill is scary. We thought of buying solar but like a house, anything that goes wrong your paying for. We buy the power back from Vivint at a much lower price than PG&E and if there are problems, Vivint monitors and fixes the problem. Are bills are so much lower than before and the one thing I worried about was the true up at the end of the year but our biggest one has been about 250 dollars. I’ve heard horror stories of the true up. Still a good decision on our part. 

What is Vivint?  The only thing I find on Google is a home security outfit.

pearljammr78

https://www.vivintsolar.com/state/california

Hope that is helpful. Definitely shop around but we like it. If you ever plan on selling they told us they make it really easy for the home buyer to switch. We plan on moving to Washington state in a few years so the ability to sell our home weighed huge on the choice. 

brianlux

pearljammr78 said:

https://www.vivintsolar.com/state/california

Hope that is helpful. Definitely shop around but we like it. If you ever plan on selling they told us they make it really easy for the home buyer to switch. We plan on moving to Washington state in a few years so the ability to sell our home weighed huge on the choice. 

I'll check it out.  Thank you!

brianlux

9 mph winds predicted tonight and tomorrow and PG&E is going to shut down power again probably around midnight tonight.

But hey, I get it.   NINE MILE PER HOUR WINDS!

I need to get going and board up the windows and nail down everything possible. The car isn't garaged- I hope it doesn't blow away. This is going to be worse than Katrina.

OMG, I am SO FREAKED OUT!!!

brianlux

Power outage cancelled.  WHOO HOO!

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

9 mph winds predicted tonight and tomorrow and PG&E is going to shut down power again probably around midnight tonight.

But hey, I get it.   NINE MILE PER HOUR WINDS!

I need to get going and board up the windows and nail down everything possible. The car isn't garaged- I hope it doesn't blow away. This is going to be worse than Katrina.

OMG, I am SO FREAKED OUT!!!

Be safe.  

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Power outage cancelled.  WHOO HOO!

The wind speed is now manageable???

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Power outage cancelled.  WHOO HOO!

The wind speed is now manageable???

The joke is that the power company warned of high winds but 9 MPH is just a breeze.  They don't know what they're doing. 

Even when they DON'T shut the power down, life is disrupted.  Places like the cheese shop two doors down had to bring in their whole crew early in the morning to set up generators to keep the cooling going to avoid loosing their inventory... and then when the shut down is called off, restock everything.  Any small food related business has to deal with similar problems and complications.  People with special needs (power to run oxygen, etc.) also have this on and off again induced stress.  A shut down is hardest on local and state economies, but false warnings are problematic as well.  The whole business is screwed up.

The ship called California is listing.  Are we a canary a the coal mine? 

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Power outage cancelled.  WHOO HOO!

The wind speed is now manageable???

The joke is that the power company warned of high winds but 9 MPH is just a breeze.  They don't know what they're doing. 

Even when they DON'T shut the power down, life is disrupted.  Places like the cheese shop two doors down had to bring in their whole crew early in the morning to set up generators to keep the cooling going to avoid loosing their inventory... and then when the shut down is called off, restock everything.  Any small food related business has to deal with similar problems and complications.  People with special needs (power to run oxygen, etc.) also have this on and off again induced stress.  A shut down is hardest on local and state economies, but false warnings are problematic as well.  The whole business is screwed up.

The ship called California is listing.  Are we a canary a the coal mine? 

idea, state goes all in on solar and wind.  pge becomes a nonprofit utility. excess power is given to pge for sale. profits from that goes into the grid upkeep and refurbishment.

perhaps eventually, excess gets sold nationally.....

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Power outage cancelled.  WHOO HOO!

The wind speed is now manageable???

The joke is that the power company warned of high winds but 9 MPH is just a breeze.  They don't know what they're doing. 

Even when they DON'T shut the power down, life is disrupted.  Places like the cheese shop two doors down had to bring in their whole crew early in the morning to set up generators to keep the cooling going to avoid loosing their inventory... and then when the shut down is called off, restock everything.  Any small food related business has to deal with similar problems and complications.  People with special needs (power to run oxygen, etc.) also have this on and off again induced stress.  A shut down is hardest on local and state economies, but false warnings are problematic as well.  The whole business is screwed up.

The ship called California is listing.  Are we a canary a the coal mine? 

idea, state goes all in on solar and wind.  pge becomes a nonprofit utility. excess power is given to pge for sale. profits from that goes into the grid upkeep and refurbishment.

perhaps eventually, excess gets sold nationally.....

Excellent idea!  Mickey Rat for the BIG PG&E TAKEOVER!

Theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPQpbm8j504

Meltdown99

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

Jason P

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

That would take years to complete, nobody would act on the recommendations, and most likely be another waste of money and time. 

There are smart people out there.  They are called engineers.  They know what to do.  Nature and the universe are governed by equations.  What is more universal then electricity and fire?

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

Not to my knowledge.

I did a quick search and, according to WSJ:

Over more than two decades, the California utility has at times misled regulators, withheld data and hindered investigations—accumulating fines and judgments of $2.6 billion

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-cat-and-mouse-game-pg-es-long-record-of-run-ins-with-regulators-and-courts-11567707731

Jason P said:

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

That would take years to complete, nobody would act on the recommendations, and most likely be another waste of money and time. 

There are smart people out there.  They are called engineers.  They know what to do.  Nature and the universe are governed by equations.  What is more universal then electricity and fire?

Yeah, I agree, I'm pretty sure they know what NEEDED to be done.  Needed, but would have cost money and PG&E has been all about making tons of money for it executives and keeping it's investors happy.  This company needs to go adios!

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

Not to my knowledge.

I did a quick search and, according to WSJ:

Over more than two decades, the California utility has at times misled regulators, withheld data and hindered investigations—accumulating fines and judgments of $2.6 billion

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-cat-and-mouse-game-pg-es-long-record-of-run-ins-with-regulators-and-courts-11567707731

Jason P said:

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

That would take years to complete, nobody would act on the recommendations, and most likely be another waste of money and time. 

There are smart people out there.  They are called engineers.  They know what to do.  Nature and the universe are governed by equations.  What is more universal then electricity and fire?

Yeah, I agree, I'm pretty sure they know what NEEDED to be done.  Needed, but would have cost money and PG&E has been all about making tons of money for it executives and keeping it's investors happy.  This company needs to go adios!

That's just wrong.  Something needs to be done.  The government needs to step up enforcement...or take over the utility company (somehow).  Billions lost in the economy is nothing to sneeze at...not to mention the inconvenience to everyone ... kind of sad.

mickeyrat

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

Not to my knowledge.

I did a quick search and, according to WSJ:

Over more than two decades, the California utility has at times misled regulators, withheld data and hindered investigations—accumulating fines and judgments of $2.6 billion

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-cat-and-mouse-game-pg-es-long-record-of-run-ins-with-regulators-and-courts-11567707731

Jason P said:

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

That would take years to complete, nobody would act on the recommendations, and most likely be another waste of money and time. 

There are smart people out there.  They are called engineers.  They know what to do.  Nature and the universe are governed by equations.  What is more universal then electricity and fire?

Yeah, I agree, I'm pretty sure they know what NEEDED to be done.  Needed, but would have cost money and PG&E has been all about making tons of money for it executives and keeping it's investors happy.  This company needs to go adios!

That's just wrong.  Something needs to be done.  The government needs to step up enforcement...or take over the utility company (somehow).  Billions lost in the economy is nothing to sneeze at...not to mention the inconvenience to everyone ... kind of sad.

the company is bankrupt. the governor went so far as to ask warren buffet to have berkshire hathaway buy it......

Lerxst1992

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

In America we do not pay for new infrastructure. Even if they completely rebuilt the grid in California, there is still some  danger having live wires in a dry and windy climate.

brianlux

Lerxst1992 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

In America we do not pay for new infrastructure. Even if they completely rebuilt the grid in California, there is still some  danger having live wires in a dry and windy climate.

What's frustrating to me is that when the opportunity arrives, power is not always placed underground.   Calif. Hwy 49, for example, is being re-routed slightly in Diamond Springs but they are going on the cheap and just putting in new wooden power poles and moving the lines instead of going underground.  It's always about what's cheap today.  In the long run, that means actually more expensive. 

1ThoughtKnown

mickeyrat said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

Not to my knowledge.

I did a quick search and, according to WSJ:

Over more than two decades, the California utility has at times misled regulators, withheld data and hindered investigations—accumulating fines and judgments of $2.6 billion

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-cat-and-mouse-game-pg-es-long-record-of-run-ins-with-regulators-and-courts-11567707731

Jason P said:

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

That would take years to complete, nobody would act on the recommendations, and most likely be another waste of money and time. 

There are smart people out there.  They are called engineers.  They know what to do.  Nature and the universe are governed by equations.  What is more universal then electricity and fire?

Yeah, I agree, I'm pretty sure they know what NEEDED to be done.  Needed, but would have cost money and PG&E has been all about making tons of money for it executives and keeping it's investors happy.  This company needs to go adios!

That's just wrong.  Something needs to be done.  The government needs to step up enforcement...or take over the utility company (somehow).  Billions lost in the economy is nothing to sneeze at...not to mention the inconvenience to everyone ... kind of sad.

the company is bankrupt. the governor went so far as to ask warren buffet to have

BHE would be interested if they found value in it. The future of the electrical grid in North America will rely on two things, reliability and customer service. These are two things BHE is very passionate about in their business model, along with sustainability, the environment and a safe workplace. 

In Alberta we have invested heavily in new construction on the electrical grid while performing maintenance activities on our existing infrastructure.  There are locations along the BC border where dry windy conditions can cause lines to be shut down to minimize fire risk but this is very rare as our line clearances are heavily regulated, both from the ground and from transmission or distribution lines running perpendicular or parallel.  Our maintenance program demonstrates the companies’ due diligence in preventing wildfires.

Government legislation in Alberta, the Alberta Forest and Prairie Protection Act, has strict fire prevention and response requirements and we (and contractors) supersede all of them.  The Act is very specific in that it holds company executives and the board of directors responsible for any negligence as it pertains to the Act.

Renewable energy projects such as wind and solar are currently under construction in Southern Alberta with many more in the planning stages. BHE itself is investing in a large wind project near Medicine Hat, 

Yes, I believe the grid is viable in the future.  I want so bad to buy a Rivian electric truck! I am hopeful BC, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Montana, Washington, Oregon and California can work together to provide energy where it is needed. The model exists between Manitoba and states south and between Quebec and New York. 

Canada has plenty of clean energy to provide our US friends. Economically, it is advantageous to Canadians to export our surplus electricity which would drive further investment in renewables such as wind and solar, but also untapped possibilities such as biofuels, thermal and others yet conceived. 

There truly is no need for rolling blackouts in North America in my opinion.  Some investment must be made to modernize the grid in California (I visited LA in April and was somewhat surprised by the crumbling infrastructure, particularly in the substations) and improve connectivity between states and provinces to provide electricity where it is required and minimize these rolling blackouts. 

1ThoughtKnown

brianlux said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

In America we do not pay for new infrastructure. Even if they completely rebuilt the grid in California, there is still some  danger having live wires in a dry and windy climate.

What's frustrating to me is that when the opportunity arrives, power is not always placed underground.   Calif. Hwy 49, for example, is being re-routed slightly in Diamond Springs but they are going on the cheap and just putting in new wooden power poles and moving the lines instead of going underground.  It's always about what's cheap today.  In the long run, that means actually more expensive. 

With all due respect, the cost to put high voltage transmission lines underground is extremely high. The lines must be encased in concrete with vaults at intermittent locations.  When one of the conductors of a three phase 138kV (or any other voltage) fails underground it is also more expensive to repair.
Anything is possible but those costs are passed to the ratepayer. Proper intermittent patrolling (by land or helicopter for deficiencies) of wood pole structures and the conductors, insulators, dampeners and other hardware can ensure those lines are safe and can last decades. Nothing is perfect of course. But it’s unlikely all new construction would go underground.  There is too much shit buried for people to hit as it is. 

brianlux

1ThoughtKnown said:

brianlux said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Has the state hired a 3rd party to audit the infrastructure?  If not.  Why have they not?  It seems to me that a comprehensive report needs to be done to identify the infrastructure that urgently needs to be done...most importantly in the high-risk areas.  Maybe this has been done?

In America we do not pay for new infrastructure. Even if they completely rebuilt the grid in California, there is still some  danger having live wires in a dry and windy climate.

What's frustrating to me is that when the opportunity arrives, power is not always placed underground.   Calif. Hwy 49, for example, is being re-routed slightly in Diamond Springs but they are going on the cheap and just putting in new wooden power poles and moving the lines instead of going underground.  It's always about what's cheap today.  In the long run, that means actually more expensive. 

With all due respect, the cost to put high voltage transmission lines underground is extremely high. The lines must be encased in concrete with vaults at intermittent locations.  When one of the conductors of a three phase 138kV (or any other voltage) fails underground it is also more expensive to repair.
Anything is possible but those costs are passed to the ratepayer. Proper intermittent patrolling (by land or helicopter for deficiencies) of wood pole structures and the conductors, insulators, dampeners and other hardware can ensure those lines are safe and can last decades. Nothing is perfect of course. But it’s unlikely all new construction would go underground.  There is too much shit buried for people to hit as it is. 

First of all, there are plenty of places where power is run underground.  This is nothing new or unusual.

Secondly, I don't really care about the cost up front.  I'm talking about long-term costs.  Above ground costs are cheaper up front but in the long run?  I don't think so.   What about the cost of repairing downed lines, poles hit by drunk drivers, lightning strikes, erosion and corrosion, etc.?   What about the cost of all the loss of life and property by the Camp Fire in Paradise California in 2018? 

Cheap is never better.  Cheap is one of the biggest things that will bring down civilization.  I know, this sounds exaggerated, histrionic even.  But not to me.  To me it sounds logical.