Ongoing PG&E power outages

brianlux

Considering California has a bigger economy than several countries and considering this article only reflects the power outage of two weeks ago, not the one early again this week or the one expected this weekend or the fact that they are saying this is the new norm for the next ten years...  added all up, I can't see how this won't have far reaching affects.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/10/pge-power-outage-could-cost-the-california-economy-more-than-2-billion.html

tempo_n_groove

So I have 2 takes on this.

It reminds me of Enron almost 20 years ago.

2nd they say that the power lines are not up to snuff and cause these fires?!?

One of our own on here lives in an area that wa affected, I'll ask him if he would like to weigh in.

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

So I have 2 takes on this.

It reminds me of Enron almost 20 years ago.

2nd they say that the power lines are not up to snuff and cause these fires?!?

One of our own on here lives in an area that wa affected, I'll ask him if he would like to weigh in.

I'll be interested in hearing what he says!

Good question about the cause of fire.  Not all the fires are caused by PG&E but it's widely accepted that The Paradise Camp Fire and the one in Santa Rosa were due to faulty equipment.  But then a lot of fires have started by things like, careless camp fires, a car driving across dry grass and a hot catalytic converter starting the fire, a chain dragging behind a camper shooting off sparks started one, arson, lightening, etc.  So having faulty power lines just adds to an already bad situation. 

I think this state is headed for bad times (or worse) and the ripple affect-- well, who knows? 

josevolution

What a mess poor folks out there both my sister & brother in laws live in Frisco ..

Jason P

the new norm?  hmm.  

brianlux

Jason P said:

the new norm?  hmm.  

The tip of the iceberg... although ice isn't the best metaphor here.  Maybe "the first spark".

Jason P

Well if they started a fire trying to shut a portion down in hopes of preventing said fire, well maybe they should just keep power flowing as normal.  Might as well enjoy some air conditioning before the fires of Mordor come for you. 

brianlux

Jason P said:

Well if they started a fire trying to shut a portion down in hopes of preventing said fire, well maybe they should just keep power flowing as normal.  Might as well enjoy some air conditioning before the fires of Mordor come for you. 

It's like they're trying to cover their asses with Saran Wrap.  They appear to be without a clue these days.

brianlux

T-minus 8 hours until our next shut down.  What's ironic is that anyone who can afford one is buying a generator.  So when the power goes down, millions of generators across California are spewing noxious fumes into the air.  We should all just jump off a cliff and get it over with.

mickeyrat

real good arguement for solar etc at a residential level for sure and business as well.  All that roof space wasted.

I do think the execs at pge should not be getting bonuses year after year when the liabilty the company has faced in some of these fires from poor maintenance around certain trans lines, other aging infrastructure, etc.

ANY payout related to reasonably preventable causes by this company should negate any chance at bonuses.

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

real good arguement for solar etc at a residential level for sure and business as well.  All that roof space wasted.

I do think the execs at pge should not be getting bonuses year after year when the liabilty the company has faced in some of these fires from poor maintenance around certain trans lines, other aging infrastructure, etc.

ANY payout related to reasonably preventable causes by this company should negate any chance at bonuses.

Yes and no, Mickey.  The problem is that here in California it is very difficult to go off grid.  It's almost illegal.  And what going solar amounts to here is that you are still tied to PG&E.  My wife and her business partner had solar installed at The Bookery.  They had to jump hoops, get permits from the county, paid a lot of money, but PG&E still controls the power and when they shut the power down, the solar is shut down as well.  We have solar panels on the building but will be selling books by flashlight again tomorrow after the power is shut down again tonight.

More craziness in a world gone mad.

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

real good arguement for solar etc at a residential level for sure and business as well.  All that roof space wasted.

I do think the execs at pge should not be getting bonuses year after year when the liabilty the company has faced in some of these fires from poor maintenance around certain trans lines, other aging infrastructure, etc.

ANY payout related to reasonably preventable causes by this company should negate any chance at bonuses.

Yes and no, Mickey.  The problem is that here in California it is very difficult to go off grid.  It's almost illegal.  And what going solar amounts to here is that you are still tied to PG&E.  My wife and her business partner had solar installed at The Bookery.  They had to jump hoops, get permits from the county, paid a lot of money, but PG&E still controls the power and when they shut the power down, the solar is shut down as well.  We have solar panels on the building but will be selling books by flashlight again tomorrow after the power is shut down again tonight.

More craziness in a world gone mad.

How can they stop someone from installing solar and using batteries?  This seems a bit odd to me.  Maybe I just don't understand solar that well.  The viseos that I watch of off-gridders that use solar are not tied into the local electri comnpanies...

And California likes to lead people into believing they are so eco concerned when in reality they are just like most places...otherwise there would be no issues, or as you said "jumping through hoops".  Yup, big governement likes control.

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

real good arguement for solar etc at a residential level for sure and business as well.  All that roof space wasted.

I do think the execs at pge should not be getting bonuses year after year when the liabilty the company has faced in some of these fires from poor maintenance around certain trans lines, other aging infrastructure, etc.

ANY payout related to reasonably preventable causes by this company should negate any chance at bonuses.

Yes and no, Mickey.  The problem is that here in California it is very difficult to go off grid.  It's almost illegal.  And what going solar amounts to here is that you are still tied to PG&E.  My wife and her business partner had solar installed at The Bookery.  They had to jump hoops, get permits from the county, paid a lot of money, but PG&E still controls the power and when they shut the power down, the solar is shut down as well.  We have solar panels on the building but will be selling books by flashlight again tomorrow after the power is shut down again tonight.

More craziness in a world gone mad.

thats something Sacramento needs to change then.  Here you are still tied to thr grid but your excess goes into supply which AEP buys. But if power in general goes out, your shit still works as long as your panels are generating enough.

Given Elon Musks solar work out there(it IS in Cali no?) am surprised he isnt more vocal in that.

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

real good arguement for solar etc at a residential level for sure and business as well.  All that roof space wasted.

I do think the execs at pge should not be getting bonuses year after year when the liabilty the company has faced in some of these fires from poor maintenance around certain trans lines, other aging infrastructure, etc.

ANY payout related to reasonably preventable causes by this company should negate any chance at bonuses.

Yes and no, Mickey.  The problem is that here in California it is very difficult to go off grid.  It's almost illegal.  And what going solar amounts to here is that you are still tied to PG&E.  My wife and her business partner had solar installed at The Bookery.  They had to jump hoops, get permits from the county, paid a lot of money, but PG&E still controls the power and when they shut the power down, the solar is shut down as well.  We have solar panels on the building but will be selling books by flashlight again tomorrow after the power is shut down again tonight.

More craziness in a world gone mad.

How can they stop someone from installing solar and using batteries?  This seems a bit odd to me.  Maybe I just don't understand solar that well.  The viseos that I watch of off-gridders that use solar are not tied into the local electri comnpanies...

And California likes to lead people into believing they are so eco concerned when in reality they are just like most places...otherwise there would be no issues, or as you said "jumping through hoops".  Yup, big governement likes control.

Me too!  Everything is regulated. 

What to go for a walk?  Need to take a leak?  Fill out a request form!

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

real good arguement for solar etc at a residential level for sure and business as well.  All that roof space wasted.

I do think the execs at pge should not be getting bonuses year after year when the liabilty the company has faced in some of these fires from poor maintenance around certain trans lines, other aging infrastructure, etc.

ANY payout related to reasonably preventable causes by this company should negate any chance at bonuses.

Yes and no, Mickey.  The problem is that here in California it is very difficult to go off grid.  It's almost illegal.  And what going solar amounts to here is that you are still tied to PG&E.  My wife and her business partner had solar installed at The Bookery.  They had to jump hoops, get permits from the county, paid a lot of money, but PG&E still controls the power and when they shut the power down, the solar is shut down as well.  We have solar panels on the building but will be selling books by flashlight again tomorrow after the power is shut down again tonight.

More craziness in a world gone mad.

thats something Sacramento needs to change then.  Here you are still tied to thr grid but your excess goes into supply which AEP buys. But if power in general goes out, your shit still works as long as your panels are generating enough.

Given Elon Musks solar work out there(it IS in Cali no?) am surprised he isnt more vocal in that.

I think in the coming months there will be a lot lot more "more vocal" going on!

brianlux

By the time I get home from work (or sooner) we will probably be shut down again so ya'all a have a good weekend. 

If you hear a lonely howl to the west, don't worry- it's just me howling at the moon!

mickeyrat

so the risk suddenly is greater on the weekends?

Jason P

My next door neighbor installed solar panels on his house this past year.  He received credits for the panels from the government, although it was still a substantial investment by him.  I think he said he got back around 30% - 40% in credits.  The energy collected by his panels cannot be used directly (i.e. he can never run his house on it in a blackout).   By law it has to be sold directly back to the power company (at night rates) and then re-sold back (at a higher day price of course).

My neighbor is doing it in hopes of making an environmental impact.  I don't think he will ever break even on the financial impact unless he retires in the house.  Ironically he had to cut down several mature maple trees in his front yard so he can get direct sunlight for a few hours a day as his roof is not situated ideally to the giant burning orb in the sky.

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

so the risk suddenly is greater on the weekends?

No.  It's been different day.

Power is off at home, on at work for... who knows?  maybe in 5...4...3...2...

Lerxst1992

mickeyrat said:

real good arguement for solar etc at a residential level for sure and business as well.  All that roof space wasted.

I do think the execs at pge should not be getting bonuses year after year when the liabilty the company has faced in some of these fires from poor maintenance around certain trans lines, other aging infrastructure, etc.

ANY payout related to reasonably preventable causes by this company should negate any chance at bonuses.

Solar still requires a power grid to function for the near future. 

The equipment that is the "possible" cause of the Geyserville fires was inspected four times in the last two years.

So do all the inspectors not know how to identify faulty equipment?

Or is it more likely extreme weather conditions pushed equipment to operate dangerously very quickly?

So fierce 70mph hot winds are no longer to blame?

mickeyrat

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

real good arguement for solar etc at a residential level for sure and business as well.  All that roof space wasted.

I do think the execs at pge should not be getting bonuses year after year when the liabilty the company has faced in some of these fires from poor maintenance around certain trans lines, other aging infrastructure, etc.

ANY payout related to reasonably preventable causes by this company should negate any chance at bonuses.

Solar still requires a power grid to function for the near future. 

The equipment that is the "possible" cause of the Geyserville fires was inspected four times in the last two years.

So do all the inspectors not know how to identify faulty equipment?

Or is it more likely extreme weather conditions pushed equipment to operate dangerously very quickly?

So fierce 70mph hot winds are no longer to blame?

wind temperature is irrelevant. but the winds that do come , come regularly enough that there is a season for it no?

Do the inspector(s) ever get audited? checking on their work? ensuring all that needs checked is actually checked? may be the things TO inspect needs revised. thats a possibility. are the components found to be at fault autopsied to find the what and how? any changes need to happen there

its amazing to me how often utililties cry poor when it comes to maintenance and upgrades, yet post profit for shareholders and give multi-million dolkar bonuses year after year.

Fires will happen. Mitigating human causes as much as possible would be the goal. the roadblocks to inovation by these utilities is short sighted and only benefits the execs and shareholders..

not for nothing, your post comes across as if you are being defensive. are you employed by pge?

Lerxst1992

mickeyrat said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

real good arguement for solar etc at a residential level for sure and business as well.  All that roof space wasted.

I do think the execs at pge should not be getting bonuses year after year when the liabilty the company has faced in some of these fires from poor maintenance around certain trans lines, other aging infrastructure, etc.

ANY payout related to reasonably preventable causes by this company should negate any chance at bonuses.

Solar still requires a power grid to function for the near future. 

The equipment that is the "possible" cause of the Geyserville fires was inspected four times in the last two years.

So do all the inspectors not know how to identify faulty equipment?

Or is it more likely extreme weather conditions pushed equipment to operate dangerously very quickly?

So fierce 70mph hot winds are no longer to blame?

wind temperature is irrelevant. but the winds that do come , come regularly enough that there is a season for it no?

Do the inspector(s) ever get audited? checking on their work? ensuring all that needs checked is actually checked? may be the things TO inspect needs revised. thats a possibility. are the components found to be at fault autopsied to find the what and how? any changes need to happen there

its amazing to me how often utililties cry poor when it comes to maintenance and upgrades, yet post profit for shareholders and give multi-million dolkar bonuses year after year.

Fires will happen. Mitigating human causes as much as possible would be the goal. the roadblocks to inovation by these utilities is short sighted and only benefits the execs and shareholders..

not for nothing, your post comes across as if you are being defensive. are you employed by pge?

Utilities dont cry poor about costs paid for by ratepayers. If we are going to blame the risks of a desert climate and santa anna winds on the utility at least we can comment accurately as to how costs are approved and paid for?

Without a rate of return there is no utility. Without bonuses there are no executives. Without the utility there  are still dangerous conditions causing fire risk.

Lerxst1992

Disclosure: I'm an energy consultant on east coast. I have a long history of living thru political blame and at the moment my governor is lying about a gas pipeline capacity problem.

bootlegger10

These fires are terrible, but they are happening more frequently and with a lot of destruction.  After a while I am reminded of the parable of the person who built their house on a sand foundation and the one who built on a rock foundation.

People want to blame something when they were the ones who live next to a mountain of kindling.

tempo_n_groove

Jason P said:

My next door neighbor installed solar panels on his house this past year.  He received credits for the panels from the government, although it was still a substantial investment by him.  I think he said he got back around 30% - 40% in credits.  The energy collected by his panels cannot be used directly (i.e. he can never run his house on it in a blackout).   By law it has to be sold directly back to the power company (at night rates) and then re-sold back (at a higher day price of course).

My neighbor is doing it in hopes of making an environmental impact.  I don't think he will ever break even on the financial impact unless he retires in the house.  Ironically he had to cut down several mature maple trees in his front yard so he can get direct sunlight for a few hours a day as his roof is not situated ideally to the giant burning orb in the sky.

The only way for you to have solar and be off grid is to buy the panels yourself and to have a battery backup where the solar energy is stored.

The utility company get's the energy that comes off the panels.

It's a pipe dream for most people to be off grid, hopefully one day.

Lerxst1992

tempo_n_groove said:

Jason P said:

My next door neighbor installed solar panels on his house this past year.  He received credits for the panels from the government, although it was still a substantial investment by him.  I think he said he got back around 30% - 40% in credits.  The energy collected by his panels cannot be used directly (i.e. he can never run his house on it in a blackout).   By law it has to be sold directly back to the power company (at night rates) and then re-sold back (at a higher day price of course).

My neighbor is doing it in hopes of making an environmental impact.  I don't think he will ever break even on the financial impact unless he retires in the house.  Ironically he had to cut down several mature maple trees in his front yard so he can get direct sunlight for a few hours a day as his roof is not situated ideally to the giant burning orb in the sky.

The only way for you to have solar and be off grid is to buy the panels yourself and to have a battery backup where the solar energy is stored.

The utility company get's the energy that comes off the panels.

It's a pipe dream for most people to be off grid, hopefully one day.

California hopes to move to 100% renewable by 2045, but the majority of energy will still be generated at central locations and distributed on the grid.

100% renewable is still well outside our current technology and significant progress in solar energy storage and bringing the cost down. 

Tgere are 2 main problems with wide scale solar: Daily solar generation starts to drop off by half at about 5pm just as people are getting home and turning up ACs and stoves to cook dinner. 

Also Dec to Feb generation drops off about 50% from summer highs. So it's easy to get renewables to a theoretical 50 to 60% of all generation but it's that last ~ 40% when the inherent drop offs in generation occur that are projected to be prohibitively expensive. 

rgambs

Lerxst1992 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Jason P said:

My next door neighbor installed solar panels on his house this past year.  He received credits for the panels from the government, although it was still a substantial investment by him.  I think he said he got back around 30% - 40% in credits.  The energy collected by his panels cannot be used directly (i.e. he can never run his house on it in a blackout).   By law it has to be sold directly back to the power company (at night rates) and then re-sold back (at a higher day price of course).

My neighbor is doing it in hopes of making an environmental impact.  I don't think he will ever break even on the financial impact unless he retires in the house.  Ironically he had to cut down several mature maple trees in his front yard so he can get direct sunlight for a few hours a day as his roof is not situated ideally to the giant burning orb in the sky.

The only way for you to have solar and be off grid is to buy the panels yourself and to have a battery backup where the solar energy is stored.

The utility company get's the energy that comes off the panels.

It's a pipe dream for most people to be off grid, hopefully one day.

California hopes to move to 100% renewable by 2045, but the majority of energy will still be generated at central locations and distributed on the grid.

100% renewable is still well outside our current technology and significant progress in solar energy storage and bringing the cost down. 

Tgere are 2 main problems with wide scale solar: Daily solar generation starts to drop off by half at about 5pm just as people are getting home and turning up ACs and stoves to cook dinner. 

Also Dec to Feb generation drops off about 50% from summer highs. So it's easy to get renewables to a theoretical 50 to 60% of all generation but it's that last ~ 40% when the inherent drop offs in generation occur that are projected to be prohibitively expensive. 

If only we could get people to curb energy use...

PJ_Soul

Lerxst1992 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Jason P said:

My next door neighbor installed solar panels on his house this past year.  He received credits for the panels from the government, although it was still a substantial investment by him.  I think he said he got back around 30% - 40% in credits.  The energy collected by his panels cannot be used directly (i.e. he can never run his house on it in a blackout).   By law it has to be sold directly back to the power company (at night rates) and then re-sold back (at a higher day price of course).

My neighbor is doing it in hopes of making an environmental impact.  I don't think he will ever break even on the financial impact unless he retires in the house.  Ironically he had to cut down several mature maple trees in his front yard so he can get direct sunlight for a few hours a day as his roof is not situated ideally to the giant burning orb in the sky.

The only way for you to have solar and be off grid is to buy the panels yourself and to have a battery backup where the solar energy is stored.

The utility company get's the energy that comes off the panels.

It's a pipe dream for most people to be off grid, hopefully one day.

California hopes to move to 100% renewable by 2045, but the majority of energy will still be generated at central locations and distributed on the grid.

100% renewable is still well outside our current technology and significant progress in solar energy storage and bringing the cost down. 

Tgere are 2 main problems with wide scale solar: Daily solar generation starts to drop off by half at about 5pm just as people are getting home and turning up ACs and stoves to cook dinner. 

Also Dec to Feb generation drops off about 50% from summer highs. So it's easy to get renewables to a theoretical 50 to 60% of all generation but it's that last ~ 40% when the inherent drop offs in generation occur that are projected to be prohibitively expensive. 

If they combine solar and wind power maybe it would be fine. Lots of wind in California, apparently! But also, technology to the rescue! They can store solar power.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-tech/energy-production/solar-energy-night.htm

Jason P

I've been semi-involved with taking down a substation and they are not routine events.  Even if inspected there is a chance for something to go wrong.  There is quite a bit of safety concern going into it.  Taking down a grid must be on a scale much greater then I witnessed. 

brianlux

Hit and run post here on borrowed server.  Powers down all over the damn place.

Hope ya'all doing well.

P.S.  I stink.

   

vogonpoetbythelake

Oh no power means no shower?