He received no job training while serving 30 years in a Michigan jail...he said prison is about punishment, not rehabilitation. I tend to agree that would be correct in the US. The US locks up people far too often and for far too long...
Reviving an old thread because I was wondering this today with the debates and elections coming up and wanted to see if this had been asked. It was. It seems overwhelmingly we do not want to provide free healthcare to illegal immigrants.
I am not for universal free healthcare for this reason that this poll stated. We do not want to provide it to illegal immigrants. But it would only be a matter of time before we do, which will obviously drive up the cost and probably bankrupt the system. I hear the argument all the time that free healthcare is not a socialist idea, so many other countries do it. And yes, many others do. But has anyone gone to Canada and tried to get free medical care? You can't.
This is an honest question then. Those who are for free healthcare, what do we do about the millions who are here illegally when they seek health care? What do we do to prevent others coming just to receive free healthcare?
I think our current system sucks and needs to change. But I also don't believe free or universal healthcare can work unless we are willing to turn away individuals or families who are not covered. Its not about not wanting to help, its about sustainability.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,722
Reviving an old thread because I was wondering this today with the debates and elections coming up and wanted to see if this had been asked. It was. It seems overwhelmingly we do not want to provide free healthcare to illegal immigrants.
I am not for universal free healthcare for this reason that this poll stated. We do not want to provide it to illegal immigrants. But it would only be a matter of time before we do, which will obviously drive up the cost and probably bankrupt the system. I hear the argument all the time that free healthcare is not a socialist idea, so many other countries do it. And yes, many others do. But has anyone gone to Canada and tried to get free medical care? You can't.
This is an honest question then. Those who are for free healthcare, what do we do about the millions who are here illegally when they seek health care? What do we do to prevent others coming just to receive free healthcare?
I think our current system sucks and needs to change. But I also don't believe free or universal healthcare can work unless we are willing to turn away individuals or families who are not covered. Its not about not wanting to help, its about sustainability.
I thought when you mentioned "millions who are here illegally" you were exaggerating. But according to Brookings Institute there are somewhere between 10.5 and 12 million people living illegally in the U.S. The Office of Immigration Statistics at DHS estimate the number to be 11.96 million. That blows my mind a bit.
Reviving an old thread because I was wondering this today with the debates and elections coming up and wanted to see if this had been asked. It was. It seems overwhelmingly we do not want to provide free healthcare to illegal immigrants.
I am not for universal free healthcare for this reason that this poll stated. We do not want to provide it to illegal immigrants. But it would only be a matter of time before we do, which will obviously drive up the cost and probably bankrupt the system. I hear the argument all the time that free healthcare is not a socialist idea, so many other countries do it. And yes, many others do. But has anyone gone to Canada and tried to get free medical care? You can't.
This is an honest question then. Those who are for free healthcare, what do we do about the millions who are here illegally when they seek health care? What do we do to prevent others coming just to receive free healthcare?
I think our current system sucks and needs to change. But I also don't believe free or universal healthcare can work unless we are willing to turn away individuals or families who are not covered. Its not about not wanting to help, its about sustainability.
I thought when you mentioned "millions who are here illegally" you were exaggerating. But according to Brookings Institute there are somewhere between 10.5 and 12 million people living illegally in the U.S. The Office of Immigration Statistics at DHS estimate the number to be 11.96 million. That blows my mind a bit.
Exactly. I originally put "tens of millions" but since it was around 10-11 million, I don't want anyone accusing me of exaggerating. My fear is offering free healthcare to literally everyone you would see a large amount of people crossing the border just to get healthcare. And why wouldn't they? SO are we prepared to turn away 10+ million people who are living here?
Reviving an old thread because I was wondering this today with the debates and elections coming up and wanted to see if this had been asked. It was. It seems overwhelmingly we do not want to provide free healthcare to illegal immigrants.
I am not for universal free healthcare for this reason that this poll stated. We do not want to provide it to illegal immigrants. But it would only be a matter of time before we do, which will obviously drive up the cost and probably bankrupt the system. I hear the argument all the time that free healthcare is not a socialist idea, so many other countries do it. And yes, many others do. But has anyone gone to Canada and tried to get free medical care? You can't.
This is an honest question then. Those who are for free healthcare, what do we do about the millions who are here illegally when they seek health care? What do we do to prevent others coming just to receive free healthcare?
I think our current system sucks and needs to change. But I also don't believe free or universal healthcare can work unless we are willing to turn away individuals or families who are not covered. Its not about not wanting to help, its about sustainability.
I thought when you mentioned "millions who are here illegally" you were exaggerating. But according to Brookings Institute there are somewhere between 10.5 and 12 million people living illegally in the U.S. The Office of Immigration Statistics at DHS estimate the number to be 11.96 million. That blows my mind a bit.
Exactly. I originally put "tens of millions" but since it was around 10-11 million, I don't want anyone accusing me of exaggerating. My fear is offering free healthcare to literally everyone you would see a large amount of people crossing the border just to get healthcare. And why wouldn't they? SO are we prepared to turn away 10+ million people who are living here?
If you look at the votes at the front of the page, only 3 people supported such a deal. And the question hasn't been asked of the candidates since, mostly because it was a terrible question that lacked context (emergency vs care vs preventative). I think most humans support life saving treatment regardless of a person's financial or immigration status. But when you get into care and prevention, my guess is the support swings the other way.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,722
Reviving an old thread because I was wondering this today with the debates and elections coming up and wanted to see if this had been asked. It was. It seems overwhelmingly we do not want to provide free healthcare to illegal immigrants.
I am not for universal free healthcare for this reason that this poll stated. We do not want to provide it to illegal immigrants. But it would only be a matter of time before we do, which will obviously drive up the cost and probably bankrupt the system. I hear the argument all the time that free healthcare is not a socialist idea, so many other countries do it. And yes, many others do. But has anyone gone to Canada and tried to get free medical care? You can't.
This is an honest question then. Those who are for free healthcare, what do we do about the millions who are here illegally when they seek health care? What do we do to prevent others coming just to receive free healthcare?
I think our current system sucks and needs to change. But I also don't believe free or universal healthcare can work unless we are willing to turn away individuals or families who are not covered. Its not about not wanting to help, its about sustainability.
I thought when you mentioned "millions who are here illegally" you were exaggerating. But according to Brookings Institute there are somewhere between 10.5 and 12 million people living illegally in the U.S. The Office of Immigration Statistics at DHS estimate the number to be 11.96 million. That blows my mind a bit.
Exactly. I originally put "tens of millions" but since it was around 10-11 million, I don't want anyone accusing me of exaggerating. My fear is offering free healthcare to literally everyone you would see a large amount of people crossing the border just to get healthcare. And why wouldn't they? SO are we prepared to turn away 10+ million people who are living here?
If you look at the votes at the front of the page, only 3 people supported such a deal. And the question hasn't been asked of the candidates since, mostly because it was a terrible question that lacked context (emergency vs care vs preventative). I think most humans support life saving treatment regardless of a person's financial or immigration status. But when you get into care and prevention, my guess is the support swings the other way.
That's my take as well.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
But you don't see that being a major problem with over 10 million illegal immigrants? You don't think if we provide free basic care (not ER care) to all citizens, that there won't be movements and protests accusing not providing the same treatment to illegals who have been living here as being racist? If the next president provided free basic care to all citizens and those here legally, the 10+ million illegal immigrants are going to view that as racist and being excluded and there would be a movement to include the illegal immigrants until it happened.
I see it being a domino effect.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,722
But you don't see that being a major problem with over 10 million illegal immigrants? You don't think if we provide free basic care (not ER care) to all citizens, that there won't be movements and protests accusing not providing the same treatment to illegals who have been living here as being racist? If the next president provided free basic care to all citizens and those here legally, the 10+ million illegal immigrants are going to view that as racist and being excluded and there would be a movement to include the illegal immigrants until it happened.
I see it being a domino effect.
I think what you are saying here fits OK with what I put in bold from M's post.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
But you don't see that being a major problem with over 10 million illegal immigrants? You don't think if we provide free basic care (not ER care) to all citizens, that there won't be movements and protests accusing not providing the same treatment to illegals who have been living here as being racist? If the next president provided free basic care to all citizens and those here legally, the 10+ million illegal immigrants are going to view that as racist and being excluded and there would be a movement to include the illegal immigrants until it happened.
I see it being a domino effect.
So are you saying that we shouldn't have basic health care for all Americans because it will lead to same call to action for illegal immigrants?
While you may very well be right, I don't see that as a compelling reason NOT to ensure that our citizens have access to healthcare. I'm not an M4A person, I'm for choice of M4A or private. But in no scenario is my support negatively influenced by the illegal immigrant situation in this country.
But you don't see that being a major problem with over 10 million illegal immigrants? You don't think if we provide free basic care (not ER care) to all citizens, that there won't be movements and protests accusing not providing the same treatment to illegals who have been living here as being racist? If the next president provided free basic care to all citizens and those here legally, the 10+ million illegal immigrants are going to view that as racist and being excluded and there would be a movement to include the illegal immigrants until it happened.
I see it being a domino effect.
So are you saying that we shouldn't have basic health care for all Americans because it will lead to same call to action for illegal immigrants?
While you may very well be right, I don't see that as a compelling reason NOT to ensure that our citizens have access to healthcare. I'm not an M4A person, I'm for choice of M4A or private. But in no scenario is my support negatively influenced by the illegal immigrant situation in this country.
No, not saying we shouldn't. I'm asking how do we plan and prepare for what I see is an unavoidable consequence? I see people asking for free healthcare but never mention this. For a very long time I was against free basic care. Only recently have I begun to consider it, but I see this as a big issue that is never addressed. My solution is be strict about it. Not here legally then you don't have access to it, period. Pretty much like every other country. I just don't see the majority making that stand though. I saw the poll results, but illegal immigrants have many of the same benefits as citizens, I don't see us making a strong stand on healthcare. I foresee commercials and posters showing sick children on the streets with a caption stating they were refused basic treatment because of where they were born. And it being a matter of time before we did away with the legally here aspect of the healthcare. Maybe I'm wrong and the poll results were accurate.
But you don't see that being a major problem with over 10 million illegal immigrants? You don't think if we provide free basic care (not ER care) to all citizens, that there won't be movements and protests accusing not providing the same treatment to illegals who have been living here as being racist? If the next president provided free basic care to all citizens and those here legally, the 10+ million illegal immigrants are going to view that as racist and being excluded and there would be a movement to include the illegal immigrants until it happened.
I see it being a domino effect.
So are you saying that we shouldn't have basic health care for all Americans because it will lead to same call to action for illegal immigrants?
While you may very well be right, I don't see that as a compelling reason NOT to ensure that our citizens have access to healthcare. I'm not an M4A person, I'm for choice of M4A or private. But in no scenario is my support negatively influenced by the illegal immigrant situation in this country.
No, not saying we shouldn't. I'm asking how do we plan and prepare for what I see is an unavoidable consequence? I see people asking for free healthcare but never mention this. For a very long time I was against free basic care. Only recently have I begun to consider it, but I see this as a big issue that is never addressed. My solution is be strict about it. Not here legally then you don't have access to it, period. Pretty much like every other country. I just don't see the majority making that stand though. I saw the poll results, but illegal immigrants have many of the same benefits as citizens, I don't see us making a strong stand on healthcare. I foresee commercials and posters showing sick children on the streets with a caption stating they were refused basic treatment because of where they were born. And it being a matter of time before we did away with the legally here aspect of the healthcare. Maybe I'm wrong and the poll results were accurate.
So take out emergency, life saving care that anyone can access today, regardless. If there was a true public health option (like medicare) then you will be issued a medical card (also like medicare). If you go into a doctor with a torn ACL, you aren't going to get treated unless you have insurance. And you don't have insurance unless you have an SSN and on the gov't roll. I understand your concern that there may be political pressure to provide it, but we can always 'just say no', as Nancy Reagan would advise us.
And think about how a medicare option would work. You would have to sign up for the services and pay for the service, commensurate with what your tax rate would be if it were the M4A plan (presumably). So it's not free insurance, just like it isn't in Canada or anywhere else in the world.
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He received no job training while serving 30 years in a Michigan jail...he said prison is about punishment, not rehabilitation. I tend to agree that would be correct in the US. The US locks up people far too often and for far too long...
I am not for universal free healthcare for this reason that this poll stated. We do not want to provide it to illegal immigrants. But it would only be a matter of time before we do, which will obviously drive up the cost and probably bankrupt the system. I hear the argument all the time that free healthcare is not a socialist idea, so many other countries do it. And yes, many others do. But has anyone gone to Canada and tried to get free medical care? You can't.
This is an honest question then. Those who are for free healthcare, what do we do about the millions who are here illegally when they seek health care? What do we do to prevent others coming just to receive free healthcare?
I think our current system sucks and needs to change. But I also don't believe free or universal healthcare can work unless we are willing to turn away individuals or families who are not covered. Its not about not wanting to help, its about sustainability.
My fear is offering free healthcare to literally everyone you would see a large amount of people crossing the border just to get healthcare. And why wouldn't they? SO are we prepared to turn away 10+ million people who are living here?
That's my take as well.
If the next president provided free basic care to all citizens and those here legally, the 10+ million illegal immigrants are going to view that as racist and being excluded and there would be a movement to include the illegal immigrants until it happened.
I see it being a domino effect.
I think what you are saying here fits OK with what I put in bold from M's post.
While you may very well be right, I don't see that as a compelling reason NOT to ensure that our citizens have access to healthcare. I'm not an M4A person, I'm for choice of M4A or private. But in no scenario is my support negatively influenced by the illegal immigrant situation in this country.
For a very long time I was against free basic care. Only recently have I begun to consider it, but I see this as a big issue that is never addressed.
My solution is be strict about it. Not here legally then you don't have access to it, period. Pretty much like every other country. I just don't see the majority making that stand though. I saw the poll results, but illegal immigrants have many of the same benefits as citizens, I don't see us making a strong stand on healthcare. I foresee commercials and posters showing sick children on the streets with a caption stating they were refused basic treatment because of where they were born. And it being a matter of time before we did away with the legally here aspect of the healthcare. Maybe I'm wrong and the poll results were accurate.
And think about how a medicare option would work. You would have to sign up for the services and pay for the service, commensurate with what your tax rate would be if it were the M4A plan (presumably). So it's not free insurance, just like it isn't in Canada or anywhere else in the world.