Can those people in the detentions self deport? I do not honestly know? If they can self deport, why do they not?
That's a great question that I don't know the answer to either. On one hand, you'd think that they'd be able to self-deport because most are detained waiting for deportation. So letting them return to their country of origin on their own accord seems like it would save time and resources. On the other hand, if they were able to self-deport, you'd think they'd all do it. Unless some are holding out hope of being admitted granted asylum. I have no clue.
Can those people in the detentions self deport? I do not honestly know? If they can self deport, why do they not?
That's a great question that I don't know the answer to either. On one hand, you'd think that they'd be able to self-deport because most are detained waiting for deportation. So letting them return to their country of origin on their own accord seems like it would save time and resources. On the other hand, if they were able to self-deport, you'd think they'd all do it. Unless some are holding out hope of being admitted granted asylum. I have no clue.
One must think about how they feel about going back to where they came from. Obviously they knew the implications of trying to cross into the USA, and the sacrifices they made to reach the US border are like nothing most of us can really imagine, but they did it anyhow. It seems to me that they will never give up trying to escape what they're running from, so "self-deportation" likely isn't a choice that seems viable to most of them. They are likely suffering in these camps just hoping and hoping that something better is ahead of them (and that they don't die in the camps before something better comes along).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
ok so if i didnt state it plainly enough.... YES i am in favour of any govt giving 'illegal' immigrants free health care case the alternative is you just let them get sick and die. not ok. is that what youd want if you found yourself in their position? yeah, didnt think so.
By federal law, every hospital is required to provide emergency services to any person that comes to the door. So this isn't even a debate issue. However, the implication of "insurance" includes non-emergency care. If an immigrant tears their medial meniscus and would like to have that repaired, should that be free for the undocumented immigrant? Nope, not in my mind. Mine isn't free.
This. I often deny myself health care (I have health care coverage) because to receive it has the risk of putting me into a terrible financial situation. So the answer to the debate moderator's question is - hell no! I am not in favor of granting to illegal immigrants rights and privileges that I, as a citizen, don't have access to. I do, however, believe that health care should be a universal right, and is more basic than providing subsided or free educations. One can't pursue happiness without health. One can't take advantage of any of their constitutionally protected rights without health. It is one of our most fundamental requirements. I don't want to deny anyone health care, but I do not think illegal immigrants are any more deserving of that health care than legal residents who have paid into the system their entire lives.
Yep. Let's get our healthcare in order, where everyone has available, affordable access. Then we can debate undocumented immigrant free healthcare.
Can those people in the detentions self deport? I do not honestly know? If they can self deport, why do they not?
That's a great question that I don't know the answer to either. On one hand, you'd think that they'd be able to self-deport because most are detained waiting for deportation. So letting them return to their country of origin on their own accord seems like it would save time and resources. On the other hand, if they were able to self-deport, you'd think they'd all do it. Unless some are holding out hope of being admitted granted asylum. I have no clue.
One must think about how they feel about going back to where they came from. Obviously they knew the implications of trying to cross into the USA, and the sacrifices they made to reach the US border are like nothing most of us can really imagine, but they did it anyhow. It seems to me that they will never give up trying to escape what they're running from, so "self-deportation" likely isn't a choice that seems viable to most of them. They are likely suffering in these camps just hoping and hoping that something better is ahead of them (and that they don't die in the camps before something better comes along).
Fair enough but when you talk about them knowing dangers and implications of trying to cross into the U.S., shouldn't one of the implications they should be aware of is that they're not welcomed by Trump? In fact, Trump has made it clear he's very much a adversary of both illegal immigrants (I'm with him on that) and people seeking asylum (I'm not with him on that). But even though I'm not with him on his disdain for asylum-seekers/migrants, that doesn't change the fact that that's how it is. For now anyway. Aren't there any places in Mexico, Central America, or even South America to seek asylum? I ask that because I honestly don't know. If there are, it seems irrational for migrants to risk so much making the trip to the U.S. border only to be greeted by border-patrol agents acting on the orders of a president that hates them.
Can those people in the detentions self deport? I do not honestly know? If they can self deport, why do they not?
That's a great question that I don't know the answer to either. On one hand, you'd think that they'd be able to self-deport because most are detained waiting for deportation. So letting them return to their country of origin on their own accord seems like it would save time and resources. On the other hand, if they were able to self-deport, you'd think they'd all do it. Unless some are holding out hope of being admitted granted asylum. I have no clue.
One must think about how they feel about going back to where they came from. Obviously they knew the implications of trying to cross into the USA, and the sacrifices they made to reach the US border are like nothing most of us can really imagine, but they did it anyhow. It seems to me that they will never give up trying to escape what they're running from, so "self-deportation" likely isn't a choice that seems viable to most of them. They are likely suffering in these camps just hoping and hoping that something better is ahead of them (and that they don't die in the camps before something better comes along).
Fair enough but when you talk about them knowing dangers and implications of trying to cross into the U.S., shouldn't one of the implications they should be aware of is that they're not welcomed by Trump? In fact, Trump has made it clear he's very much a adversary of both illegal immigrants (I'm with him on that) and people seeking asylum (I'm not with him on that). But even though I'm not with him on his disdain for asylum-seekers/migrants, that doesn't change the fact that that's how it is. For now anyway. Aren't there any places in Mexico, Central America, or even South America to seek asylum? I ask that because I honestly don't know. If there are, it seems irrational for migrants to risk so much making the trip to the U.S. border only to be greeted by border-patrol agents acting on the orders of a president that hates them.
Yes, they are aware of that, and try anyway. So what does that tell you? No, not that they are irrational. That what they're trying to escape is worse in the long run, when compared to whatever may come with an attempt to enter the US. And that is why they way they are being treated by America is particularly disgusting.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Can those people in the detentions self deport? I do not honestly know? If they can self deport, why do they not?
That's a great question that I don't know the answer to either. On one hand, you'd think that they'd be able to self-deport because most are detained waiting for deportation. So letting them return to their country of origin on their own accord seems like it would save time and resources. On the other hand, if they were able to self-deport, you'd think they'd all do it. Unless some are holding out hope of being admitted granted asylum. I have no clue.
One must think about how they feel about going back to where they came from. Obviously they knew the implications of trying to cross into the USA, and the sacrifices they made to reach the US border are like nothing most of us can really imagine, but they did it anyhow. It seems to me that they will never give up trying to escape what they're running from, so "self-deportation" likely isn't a choice that seems viable to most of them. They are likely suffering in these camps just hoping and hoping that something better is ahead of them (and that they don't die in the camps before something better comes along).
Fair enough but when you talk about them knowing dangers and implications of trying to cross into the U.S., shouldn't one of the implications they should be aware of is that they're not welcomed by Trump? In fact, Trump has made it clear he's very much a adversary of both illegal immigrants (I'm with him on that) and people seeking asylum (I'm not with him on that). But even though I'm not with him on his disdain for asylum-seekers/migrants, that doesn't change the fact that that's how it is. For now anyway. Aren't there any places in Mexico, Central America, or even South America to seek asylum? I ask that because I honestly don't know. If there are, it seems irrational for migrants to risk so much making the trip to the U.S. border only to be greeted by border-patrol agents acting on the orders of a president that hates them.
Yes, they are aware of that, and try anyway. So what does that tell you?? That what they're trying to escape is worse in the long run, when compared to whatever may come with an attempt to enter the US. And that is why they way they are being treated by America is particularly disgusting.
A better way to say it is, the current administration, unless your intent is to indict all of us Americans for what Trump is doing.
Can those people in the detentions self deport? I do not honestly know? If they can self deport, why do they not?
That's a great question that I don't know the answer to either. On one hand, you'd think that they'd be able to self-deport because most are detained waiting for deportation. So letting them return to their country of origin on their own accord seems like it would save time and resources. On the other hand, if they were able to self-deport, you'd think they'd all do it. Unless some are holding out hope of being admitted granted asylum. I have no clue.
One must think about how they feel about going back to where they came from. Obviously they knew the implications of trying to cross into the USA, and the sacrifices they made to reach the US border are like nothing most of us can really imagine, but they did it anyhow. It seems to me that they will never give up trying to escape what they're running from, so "self-deportation" likely isn't a choice that seems viable to most of them. They are likely suffering in these camps just hoping and hoping that something better is ahead of them (and that they don't die in the camps before something better comes along).
Fair enough but when you talk about them knowing dangers and implications of trying to cross into the U.S., shouldn't one of the implications they should be aware of is that they're not welcomed by Trump? In fact, Trump has made it clear he's very much a adversary of both illegal immigrants (I'm with him on that) and people seeking asylum (I'm not with him on that). But even though I'm not with him on his disdain for asylum-seekers/migrants, that doesn't change the fact that that's how it is. For now anyway. Aren't there any places in Mexico, Central America, or even South America to seek asylum? I ask that because I honestly don't know. If there are, it seems irrational for migrants to risk so much making the trip to the U.S. border only to be greeted by border-patrol agents acting on the orders of a president that hates them.
Yes, they are aware of that, and try anyway. So what does that tell you?? That what they're trying to escape is worse in the long run, when compared to whatever may come with an attempt to enter the US. And that is why they way they are being treated by America is particularly disgusting.
A better way to say it is, the current administration, unless your intent is to indict all of us Americans for what Trump is doing.
You knew what I meant of course, but okay.
I think it must be difficult for most Americans to understand that
risking death to get away from a life with no future and constant harassment from gangs and police, and a lack of food and security and
sanitation, etc, is not irrational at all. The risk of death or other
hardships becomes completely worth it, just for the chance at something
better. That is where these people are coming from. IMO, they deserve
nothing but empathy and dignity. Unfortunately for us all, the current
admin has neither.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Can those people in the detentions self deport? I do not honestly know? If they can self deport, why do they not?
That's a great question that I don't know the answer to either. On one hand, you'd think that they'd be able to self-deport because most are detained waiting for deportation. So letting them return to their country of origin on their own accord seems like it would save time and resources. On the other hand, if they were able to self-deport, you'd think they'd all do it. Unless some are holding out hope of being admitted granted asylum. I have no clue.
One must think about how they feel about going back to where they came from. Obviously they knew the implications of trying to cross into the USA, and the sacrifices they made to reach the US border are like nothing most of us can really imagine, but they did it anyhow. It seems to me that they will never give up trying to escape what they're running from, so "self-deportation" likely isn't a choice that seems viable to most of them. They are likely suffering in these camps just hoping and hoping that something better is ahead of them (and that they don't die in the camps before something better comes along).
Fair enough but when you talk about them knowing dangers and implications of trying to cross into the U.S., shouldn't one of the implications they should be aware of is that they're not welcomed by Trump? In fact, Trump has made it clear he's very much a adversary of both illegal immigrants (I'm with him on that) and people seeking asylum (I'm not with him on that). But even though I'm not with him on his disdain for asylum-seekers/migrants, that doesn't change the fact that that's how it is. For now anyway. Aren't there any places in Mexico, Central America, or even South America to seek asylum? I ask that because I honestly don't know. If there are, it seems irrational for migrants to risk so much making the trip to the U.S. border only to be greeted by border-patrol agents acting on the orders of a president that hates them.
Yes, they are aware of that, and try anyway. So what does that tell you? No, not that they are irrational. That what they're trying to escape is worse in the long run, when compared to whatever may come with an attempt to enter the US. And that is why they way they are being treated by America is particularly disgusting.
So there's not a single place in all of South or Central America where these people can be safe?
Can those people in the detentions self deport? I do not honestly know? If they can self deport, why do they not?
That's a great question that I don't know the answer to either. On one hand, you'd think that they'd be able to self-deport because most are detained waiting for deportation. So letting them return to their country of origin on their own accord seems like it would save time and resources. On the other hand, if they were able to self-deport, you'd think they'd all do it. Unless some are holding out hope of being admitted granted asylum. I have no clue.
One must think about how they feel about going back to where they came from. Obviously they knew the implications of trying to cross into the USA, and the sacrifices they made to reach the US border are like nothing most of us can really imagine, but they did it anyhow. It seems to me that they will never give up trying to escape what they're running from, so "self-deportation" likely isn't a choice that seems viable to most of them. They are likely suffering in these camps just hoping and hoping that something better is ahead of them (and that they don't die in the camps before something better comes along).
Fair enough but when you talk about them knowing dangers and implications of trying to cross into the U.S., shouldn't one of the implications they should be aware of is that they're not welcomed by Trump? In fact, Trump has made it clear he's very much a adversary of both illegal immigrants (I'm with him on that) and people seeking asylum (I'm not with him on that). But even though I'm not with him on his disdain for asylum-seekers/migrants, that doesn't change the fact that that's how it is. For now anyway. Aren't there any places in Mexico, Central America, or even South America to seek asylum? I ask that because I honestly don't know. If there are, it seems irrational for migrants to risk so much making the trip to the U.S. border only to be greeted by border-patrol agents acting on the orders of a president that hates them.
Yes, they are aware of that, and try anyway. So what does that tell you? No, not that they are irrational. That what they're trying to escape is worse in the long run, when compared to whatever may come with an attempt to enter the US. And that is why they way they are being treated by America is particularly disgusting.
So there's not a single place in all of South or Central America where these people can be safe?
How about panama? Argentina perhaps? Chile? Brazil?
Can those people in the detentions self deport? I do not honestly know? If they can self deport, why do they not?
That's a great question that I don't know the answer to either. On one hand, you'd think that they'd be able to self-deport because most are detained waiting for deportation. So letting them return to their country of origin on their own accord seems like it would save time and resources. On the other hand, if they were able to self-deport, you'd think they'd all do it. Unless some are holding out hope of being admitted granted asylum. I have no clue.
One must think about how they feel about going back to where they came from. Obviously they knew the implications of trying to cross into the USA, and the sacrifices they made to reach the US border are like nothing most of us can really imagine, but they did it anyhow. It seems to me that they will never give up trying to escape what they're running from, so "self-deportation" likely isn't a choice that seems viable to most of them. They are likely suffering in these camps just hoping and hoping that something better is ahead of them (and that they don't die in the camps before something better comes along).
Fair enough but when you talk about them knowing dangers and implications of trying to cross into the U.S., shouldn't one of the implications they should be aware of is that they're not welcomed by Trump? In fact, Trump has made it clear he's very much a adversary of both illegal immigrants (I'm with him on that) and people seeking asylum (I'm not with him on that). But even though I'm not with him on his disdain for asylum-seekers/migrants, that doesn't change the fact that that's how it is. For now anyway. Aren't there any places in Mexico, Central America, or even South America to seek asylum? I ask that because I honestly don't know. If there are, it seems irrational for migrants to risk so much making the trip to the U.S. border only to be greeted by border-patrol agents acting on the orders of a president that hates them.
Yes, they are aware of that, and try anyway. So what does that tell you?? That what they're trying to escape is worse in the long run, when compared to whatever may come with an attempt to enter the US. And that is why they way they are being treated by America is particularly disgusting.
A better way to say it is, the current administration, unless your intent is to indict all of us Americans for what Trump is doing.
You knew what I meant of course, but okay.
I think it must be difficult for most Americans to understand that
risking death to get away from a life with no future and constant harassment from gangs and police, and a lack of food and security and
sanitation, etc, is not irrational at all. The risk of death or other
hardships becomes completely worth it, just for the chance at something
better. That is where these people are coming from. IMO, they deserve
nothing but empathy and dignity. Unfortunately for us all, the current
admin has neither.
Two things.. one I do think that distinction needs to be drawn. On this board in particular, there are people who make sweeping judgments against America, failing to distinguish between this administration and ordinary people who live their lives, and those of us that are outraged by the admin's lack of morals. And you might be right about not understanding what it means to risk their lives. I don't blame them one bit for crossing the boarder. I would do it too to be perfectly honest. It's a better chance than what they had. I've shared on this board that my father and his family escaped the Ukraine during Holodomor. His whole family that stayed, perished as far as we know. So I think there are plenty of Americans who do understand and empathize with the plight. The President, a child of privilege, does not.
Can those people in the detentions self deport? I do not honestly know? If they can self deport, why do they not?
That's a great question that I don't know the answer to either. On one hand, you'd think that they'd be able to self-deport because most are detained waiting for deportation. So letting them return to their country of origin on their own accord seems like it would save time and resources. On the other hand, if they were able to self-deport, you'd think they'd all do it. Unless some are holding out hope of being admitted granted asylum. I have no clue.
One must think about how they feel about going back to where they came from. Obviously they knew the implications of trying to cross into the USA, and the sacrifices they made to reach the US border are like nothing most of us can really imagine, but they did it anyhow. It seems to me that they will never give up trying to escape what they're running from, so "self-deportation" likely isn't a choice that seems viable to most of them. They are likely suffering in these camps just hoping and hoping that something better is ahead of them (and that they don't die in the camps before something better comes along).
Fair enough but when you talk about them knowing dangers and implications of trying to cross into the U.S., shouldn't one of the implications they should be aware of is that they're not welcomed by Trump? In fact, Trump has made it clear he's very much a adversary of both illegal immigrants (I'm with him on that) and people seeking asylum (I'm not with him on that). But even though I'm not with him on his disdain for asylum-seekers/migrants, that doesn't change the fact that that's how it is. For now anyway. Aren't there any places in Mexico, Central America, or even South America to seek asylum? I ask that because I honestly don't know. If there are, it seems irrational for migrants to risk so much making the trip to the U.S. border only to be greeted by border-patrol agents acting on the orders of a president that hates them.
Yes, they are aware of that, and try anyway. So what does that tell you? No, not that they are irrational. That what they're trying to escape is worse in the long run, when compared to whatever may come with an attempt to enter the US. And that is why they way they are being treated by America is particularly disgusting.
So there's not a single place in all of South or Central America where these people can be safe?
How about panama? Argentina perhaps? Chile? Brazil?
They are trying to find better lives, not comparable ones.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
We have a robust agricultural sector that brings migrants...except our farmers do it legally...I'm sure there are some undocumented workers here...but unlike California, here in Ontario it is frowned upon...
But I avoid food from California ... the berries that are sold here from California suck... but we in Ontario feed ourselves...
Give Peas A Chance…
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
We have a robust agricultural sector that brings migrants...except our farmers do it legally...I'm sure there are some undocumented workers here...but unlike California, here in Ontario it is frowned upon...
But I avoid food from California ... the berries that are sold here from California suck... but we in Ontario feed ourselves...
Canada doesn't come close to being a major world food producer. The top five countries that produce food are China, India, The United States, Brazil, and California. But this is all besides the point I was making.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
Yeah, I always wonder how many people know someone that lost their job to an illegal immigrant. The answer is always 'no one'. Natural born citizens simply don't/won't do certain jobs. That's a damn fact.
We have a robust agricultural sector that brings migrants...except our farmers do it legally...I'm sure there are some undocumented workers here...but unlike California, here in Ontario it is frowned upon...
But I avoid food from California ... the berries that are sold here from California suck... but we in Ontario feed ourselves...
Canada doesn't come close to being a major world food producer. The top five countries that produce food are China, India, The United States, Brazil, and California. But this is all besides the point I was making.
We are a country of 35 million. I never said we were a top food producer. I said we feed ourselves and for the most part, our farmers bring in workers legally...pretty easy to understand. We do not need to be top 5 to feed ourselves...what fucking nonsense is that.
We have a robust agricultural sector that brings migrants...except our farmers do it legally...I'm sure there are some undocumented workers here...but unlike California, here in Ontario it is frowned upon...
But I avoid food from California ... the berries that are sold here from California suck... but we in Ontario feed ourselves...
Canada doesn't come close to being a major world food producer. The top five countries that produce food are China, India, The United States, Brazil, and California. But this is all besides the point I was making.
We are a country of 35 million. I never said we were a top food producer. I said we feed ourselves and for the most part, our farmers bring in workers legally...pretty easy to understand. We do not need to be top 5 to feed ourselves...what fucking nonsense is that.
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?
Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
We are the 5th largest exporters of agricultural product in the world and we still can feed ourselves. Not bad for a country of 35 million and our farmers hire people legally for the most part...you are basically saying that your farmers cannot produce agriculture without illegals. Maybe Californias should pay better wages...
And if you are putting ANY food products on your table from China, India and Brazil that's your problem...I prefer my food come from countries with some standards...
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?
Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?
You need to reconstruct the second sentence. What does that mean?
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?
Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?
You need to reconstruct the second sentence. What does that mean?
Those businesses, must have taken a hit before reconstructing their business model to work with paid labour I would guess?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
We have a robust agricultural sector that brings migrants...except our farmers do it legally...I'm sure there are some undocumented workers here...but unlike California, here in Ontario it is frowned upon...
But I avoid food from California ... the berries that are sold here from California suck... but we in Ontario feed ourselves...
Canada doesn't come close to being a major world food producer. The top five countries that produce food are China, India, The United States, Brazil, and California. But this is all besides the point I was making.
We are a country of 35 million. I never said we were a top food producer. I said we feed ourselves and for the most part, our farmers bring in workers legally...pretty easy to understand. We do not need to be top 5 to feed ourselves...what fucking nonsense is that.
Enough girls!
LOL. Yeah, I'm not even sure what the argument is about! I'm not a nationalist, so I don't give a rat's ass anyway. Let's get back to the discussion.
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
Yeah, I always wonder how many people know someone that lost their job to an illegal immigrant. The answer is always 'no one'. Natural born citizens simply don't/won't do certain jobs. That's a damn fact.
This is a real problem and not just in California. That summer I spend doing field work was for my brother at his farm in Washington. Other than a few kids with work permits, it was Mexicans- documented Mexicans, and damn fine people I might add. One of the guys I worked with moved on to work on a mushroom farm in Pennsylvania. Hispanics do most of the field work and the bigger the outfit, the more likely they are to have the wherewithal to smuggle workers over the border. Big agra loves its cheap labor. What a racket. But again, we can't fully blame them because most white people are unwilling to do the work.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?
Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?
You need to reconstruct the second sentence. What does that mean?
Those businesses, must have taken a hit before reconstructing their business model to work with paid labour I would guess?
Maybe slavery is still present in the US in a roundabout way... The US does love cheap labour.
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?
Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?
You need to reconstruct the second sentence. What does that mean?
Those businesses, must have taken a hit before reconstructing their business model to work with paid labour I would guess?
Maybe slavery is still present in the US in a roundabout way... The US does love cheap labour.
Are what you saying, that the US is subsidizing their agriculture sector by being okey with giving wages people can not live on, not giving any legal rights to vacation, no maternal leave and such?
Are you saying they are competing by shitty conditions for their workers?
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?
Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?
You need to reconstruct the second sentence. What does that mean?
Those businesses, must have taken a hit before reconstructing their business model to work with paid labour I would guess?
Maybe slavery is still present in the US in a roundabout way... The US does love cheap labour.
Are what you saying, that the US is subsidizing their agriculture sector by being okey with giving wages people can not live on, not giving any legal right to vacation, not maternal leave and such?
Are you saying they are competing by shitting on the working people?
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?
Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?
You need to reconstruct the second sentence. What does that mean?
Those businesses, must have taken a hit before reconstructing their business model to work with paid labour I would guess?
Well yes, they lost their most valuable asset. Why do you think the Southern Aristocracy went to war? It wasn't about nullification as a principle, or even tariffs. Just read Alexander Stephens' 'Cornerstone Speech'. But post-Reconstruction, most of the aristocracy regained much of their fortune. This was through the system of sharecropping and then of course eventually the advances of the Industrial Revolution.
We have a robust agricultural sector that brings migrants...except our farmers do it legally...I'm sure there are some undocumented workers here...but unlike California, here in Ontario it is frowned upon...
But I avoid food from California ... the berries that are sold here from California suck... but we in Ontario feed ourselves...
Canada doesn't come close to being a major world food producer. The top five countries that produce food are China, India, The United States, Brazil, and California. But this is all besides the point I was making.
We are a country of 35 million. I never said we were a top food producer. I said we feed ourselves and for the most part, our farmers bring in workers legally...pretty easy to understand. We do not need to be top 5 to feed ourselves...what fucking nonsense is that.
Enough girls!
LOL. Yeah, I'm not even sure what the argument is about! I'm not a nationalist, so I don't give a rat's ass anyway. Let's get back to the discussion.
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
Yeah, I always wonder how many people know someone that lost their job to an illegal immigrant. The answer is always 'no one'. Natural born citizens simply don't/won't do certain jobs. That's a damn fact.
This is a real problem and not just in California. That summer I spend doing field work was for my brother at his farm in Washington. Other than a few kids with work permits, it was Mexicans- documented Mexicans, and damn fine people I might add. One of the guys I worked with moved on to work on a mushroom farm in Pennsylvania. Hispanics do most of the field work and the bigger the outfit, the more likely they are to have the wherewithal to smuggle workers over the border. Big agra loves its cheap labor. What a racket. But again, we can't fully blame them because most white people are unwilling to do the work.
When I was in college, I managed a PIzza Hut that was in East Ft Myers, FL. That is right on the edge of sugar cane farming land. Most of the workers seemed like good people. They came in every other week for their special meal of a few pizzas. What was really interesting was the class system even among the Hispanic community of migrant and permanent workers. The Cubans sat at the top, followed by the PR's, Dominicans, Salvadorans and then Haitians. And they all disliked each other. Historically, you could compare it to the tension that existed in this country from about 1850-1930, when we had the waves of immigration and the dislike between the Irish, Italians, Poles, etc. It's all about the competition for unskilled labor.
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants. But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays. I did it for a summer. It's a bitch! Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites? Tell me!
So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"
It's a damn complex issue.
Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?
Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?
You need to reconstruct the second sentence. What does that mean?
Those businesses, must have taken a hit before reconstructing their business model to work with paid labour I would guess?
Maybe slavery is still present in the US in a roundabout way... The US does love cheap labour.
Are what you saying, that the US is subsidizing their agriculture sector by being okey with giving wages people can not live on, not giving any legal right to vacation, not maternal leave and such?
Are you saying they are competing by shitting on the working people?
Comments
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
And you might be right about not understanding what it means to risk their lives. I don't blame them one bit for crossing the boarder. I would do it too to be perfectly honest. It's a better chance than what they had. I've shared on this board that my father and his family escaped the Ukraine during Holodomor. His whole family that stayed, perished as far as we know. So I think there are plenty of Americans who do understand and empathize with the plight. The President, a child of privilege, does not.
https://fortune.com/2019/07/10/california-health-coverage-undocumented/
Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
But I avoid food from California ... the berries that are sold here from California suck... but we in Ontario feed ourselves...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Enough girls!
Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?
We Grow a Lot More Than You May Think
http://cafta.org/agri-food-exports/
We are the 5th largest exporters of agricultural product in the world and we still can feed ourselves. Not bad for a country of 35 million and our farmers hire people legally for the most part...you are basically saying that your farmers cannot produce agriculture without illegals. Maybe Californias should pay better wages...
And if you are putting ANY food products on your table from China, India and Brazil that's your problem...I prefer my food come from countries with some standards...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Are you saying they are competing by shitty conditions for their workers?
Convicts are returning to farming – anti-immigrant policies are the reason
....would like to have a word...