Are you in favor of giving illegal immigrants free health care?

http://cafta.org/

We Grow a Lot More Than You May Think
http://cafta.org/agri-food-exports/

We are the 5th largest exporters of agricultural product in the world and we still can feed ourselves.  Not bad for a country of 35 million and our farmers hire people legally for the most part...you are basically saying that your farmers cannot produce agriculture without illegals.  Maybe Californias should pay better wages...

And if you are putting ANY food products on your table from China, India and Brazil that's your problem...I prefer my food come from countries with some standards...

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

California to Give Health Coverage to Some Undocumented Immigrants. Here’s How It Will Be Funded
https://fortune.com/2019/07/10/california-health-coverage-undocumented/

Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...

I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants.  But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays.  I did it for a summer.  It's a bitch!  Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites?  Tell me! 

So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"

It's a damn complex issue.

Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?

Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?

You need to reconstruct the second sentence.  What does that mean?

Those businesses, must have taken a hit before reconstructing their business model to work with paid labour I would guess?

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

California to Give Health Coverage to Some Undocumented Immigrants. Here’s How It Will Be Funded
https://fortune.com/2019/07/10/california-health-coverage-undocumented/

Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...

I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants.  But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays.  I did it for a summer.  It's a bitch!  Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites?  Tell me! 

So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"

It's a damn complex issue.

Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?

Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?

You need to reconstruct the second sentence.  What does that mean?

Those businesses, must have taken a hit before reconstructing their business model to work with paid labour I would guess?

Maybe slavery is still present in the US in a roundabout way... The US does love cheap labour.  

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Meltdown99 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

California to Give Health Coverage to Some Undocumented Immigrants. Here’s How It Will Be Funded
https://fortune.com/2019/07/10/california-health-coverage-undocumented/

Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...

I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants.  But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays.  I did it for a summer.  It's a bitch!  Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites?  Tell me! 

So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"

It's a damn complex issue.

Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?

Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?

You need to reconstruct the second sentence.  What does that mean?

Those businesses, must have taken a hit before reconstructing their business model to work with paid labour I would guess?

Maybe slavery is still present in the US in a roundabout way... The US does love cheap labour.  

Are what you saying, that the US is subsidizing their agriculture sector by being okey with giving wages people can not live on, not giving any legal right to vacation, not maternal leave and such?

Are you saying they are competing by shitting on the working people?

There is no federal farming force, so no.  

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

We have a robust agricultural sector that brings migrants...except our farmers do it legally...I'm sure there are some undocumented workers here...but unlike California, here in Ontario it is frowned upon...

But I avoid food from California ... the berries that are sold here from California suck... but we in Ontario feed ourselves...

Canada doesn't come close to being a major world food producer.  The top five countries that produce food are China, India, The United States, Brazil, and California.  But this is all besides the point I was making.

We are a country of 35 million. I never said we were a top food producer.  I said we feed ourselves and for the most part, our farmers bring in workers legally...pretty easy to understand.  We do not need to be top 5 to feed ourselves...what fucking nonsense is that.  

Enough girls! 

LOL.  Yeah, I'm not even sure what the argument is about!  I'm not a nationalist, so I don't give a rat's ass anyway.  Let's get back to the discussion.

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

California to Give Health Coverage to Some Undocumented Immigrants. Here’s How It Will Be Funded
https://fortune.com/2019/07/10/california-health-coverage-undocumented/

Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...

I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants.  But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays.  I did it for a summer.  It's a bitch!  Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites?  Tell me! 

So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"

It's a damn complex issue.

Yeah, I always wonder how many people know someone that lost their job to an illegal immigrant.  The answer is always 'no one'.  Natural born citizens simply don't/won't do certain jobs.  That's a damn fact.  

This is a real problem and not just in California.  That summer I spend doing field work was for my brother at his farm in Washington.  Other than a few kids with work permits, it was Mexicans- documented Mexicans, and damn fine people I might add.   One of the guys I worked with moved on to work on a mushroom farm in Pennsylvania. Hispanics do most of the field work and the bigger the outfit, the more likely they are to have the wherewithal to smuggle workers over the border.  Big agra loves its cheap labor.  What a racket.  But again, we can't fully blame them because most white people are unwilling to do the work.  

When I was in college, I managed a PIzza Hut that was in East Ft Myers, FL.  That is right on the edge of sugar cane farming land.  Most of the workers seemed like good people.  They came in every other week for their special meal of a few pizzas.  What was really interesting was the class system even among the Hispanic community of migrant and permanent workers.  The Cubans sat at the top, followed by the PR's, Dominicans, Salvadorans and then Haitians.  And they all disliked each other.  Historically, you could compare it to the tension that existed in this country from about 1850-1930, when we had the waves of immigration and the dislike between the Irish, Italians, Poles, etc.  It's all about the competition for unskilled labor. 

CM189191 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Meltdown99 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

California to Give Health Coverage to Some Undocumented Immigrants. Here’s How It Will Be Funded
https://fortune.com/2019/07/10/california-health-coverage-undocumented/

Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...

I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants.  But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays.  I did it for a summer.  It's a bitch!  Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites?  Tell me! 

So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"

It's a damn complex issue.

Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?

Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?

You need to reconstruct the second sentence.  What does that mean?

Those businesses, must have taken a hit before reconstructing their business model to work with paid labour I would guess?

Maybe slavery is still present in the US in a roundabout way... The US does love cheap labour.  

Are what you saying, that the US is subsidizing their agriculture sector by being okey with giving wages people can not live on, not giving any legal right to vacation, not maternal leave and such?

Are you saying they are competing by shitting on the working people?

There is no federal farming force, so no.  

Convicts are returning to farming – anti-immigrant policies are the reason
....would like to have a word...

That's a more complicated argument.  Prisoners have been doing work forever, whether it's license plates, clean up crews, road work, etc.  Take out the argument about whether the convictions are legitimate, it's certainly true that a goodly number of prisoners actually committed a real crime.  And it costs all of us money to incarcerate them.  So I don't know that I'm uncomfortable with prisoners being leased for labor that meets all normal federal standards, including min wage laws.  I would hope that money goes into the prisoner system to pay for the incarceration.  

oftenreading said:

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Meltdown99 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

California to Give Health Coverage to Some Undocumented Immigrants. Here’s How It Will Be Funded
https://fortune.com/2019/07/10/california-health-coverage-undocumented/

Must suck to pay taxes in California and not get state-funded healthcare...

I'm in favor of giving anyone critical care whether they are documented or not but against the idea of giving free non-critical care to undocumented immigrants.  But here's the thing- California is the "breadbasket of the world"-- the fifth largest supplier of food in the world-- and no one besides undocumented workers are willing to do that kind of work for the low wages big agribusiness pays.  I did it for a summer.  It's a bitch!  Know anyone who does this kind of work, especially any 20 something whites?  Tell me! 

So when people who rely on this state's food production complain about undocumented workers, they/ we need to ask ourselves, "Well, OK, is these people are not well, who will do the work?"

It's a damn complex issue.

Who wanted to do the work slaves did when the plantations couldn't use them anymore for free labour?

Must have been taken a hit before reconstruction the business for paid labour I would guess?

You need to reconstruct the second sentence.  What does that mean?

Those businesses, must have taken a hit before reconstructing their business model to work with paid labour I would guess?

Maybe slavery is still present in the US in a roundabout way... The US does love cheap labour.  

Are what you saying, that the US is subsidizing their agriculture sector by being okey with giving wages people can not live on, not giving any legal right to vacation, not maternal leave and such?

Are you saying they are competing by shitting on the working people?

There is no federal farming force, so no.  

Convicts are returning to farming – anti-immigrant policies are the reason
....would like to have a word...

That's a more complicated argument.  Prisoners have been doing work forever, whether it's license plates, clean up crews, road work, etc.  Take out the argument about whether the convictions are legitimate, it's certainly true that a goodly number of prisoners actually committed a real crime.  And it costs all of us money to incarcerate them.  So I don't know that I'm uncomfortable with prisoners being leased for labor that meets all normal federal standards, including min wage laws.  I would hope that money goes into the prisoner system to pay for the incarceration.  

Like it says toward the end of the article, in theory there are sound reasons for employing inmates; many get where they got because they don't have any useful job skills or any ties to legitimate employment, but the devil is in the details, as always. If black prisoners are getting less desirable jobs than white prisoners, and if a big chunk of prisoners is being exposed to dangers not acceptable to the average worker, then it's just yet another avenue for discrimination. It's not clear to me if the judicial/prison system is fixable to the point where it doesn't do more harm than good. 

Off topic but most prisoners would LOVE a work release program like that.

Prisoners are there to serve time, not to be slaves to the state...and considering the amount of people locked up doing excessive time for non-violent crimes...fuck that shit...

Let's not forget the US loves private prisons...the only country that wants to profit off crime, and that's the government...LMFAO.

Meltdown99 said:

Prisoners are there to serve time, not to be slaves to the state...and considering the amount of people locked up doing excessive time for non-violent crimes...fuck that shit...

Let's not forget the US loves private prisons...the only country that wants to profit off crime, and that's the government...LMFAO.

Totally agree. That private prisons are even legal in the US shocked the hell out of me. It's a fucking abomination.

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

Prisoners are there to serve time, not to be slaves to the state...and considering the amount of people locked up doing excessive time for non-violent crimes...fuck that shit...

Let's not forget the US loves private prisons...the only country that wants to profit off crime, and that's the government...LMFAO.

Totally agree. That private prisons are even legal in the US shocked the hell out of me. It's a fucking abomination.

I agree about the private prison aspect as well.

Are you still anti-work release programs if it is voluntary and the prisoners get to keep the income, or at least a portion of it?

I never said I was anti-work release. I am in favour of any program that decreases the rates of recidivism, that prepares prisoners to live in the real world after their release, and that doesn't turn people into slaves. As long as public safety is a high priority at the same time, I would say that I'm very pro-work release program.