Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

catefrances · June 2019

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Strong speech by Kristen:

https://youtu.be/R5bzyyW6uJ0

she was dead on. kudos to her.

cincybearcat · June 2019

catefrances said:

cincybearcat said:

catefrances said:

benjs said:

catefrances said:

benjs said:

catefrances said:

sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion.
btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.

Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.

I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.

I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.

thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.

I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.

and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.

Stopping unwanted pregnancies would.
good luck with that.

You don’t think that’s a realistic goal? Then wtf have birth control? Sex education? Etc? I thought even pro-choice people were aligned to these types of things. Guess not.

Halifax2TheMax · June 2019

cincybearcat said:

catefrances said:

cincybearcat said:

catefrances said:

benjs said:

catefrances said:

benjs said:

catefrances said:

sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion.
btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.

Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.

I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.

I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.

thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.

I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.

and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.

Stopping unwanted pregnancies would.
good luck with that.

You don’t think that’s a realistic goal? Then wtf have birth control? Sex education? Etc? I thought even pro-choice people were aligned to these types of things. Guess not.

Pro-choice people are aligned with birth control, teaching it and making it easily accessible, particularly to teens. See what Hickenlooper did in Colorado and the subsequent reduction in unwanted pregnancies and abortions, particularly among teens. Its the religious jihadis who believe life begins at conception or even before who are against it and as a result, teach abstinence only and deny funding for clinics that provide birth control and reproductive education (Planned Parenthood, already unable to use federal funds for abortion). That's why, "good luck with that."

PJ_Soul · June 2019

Spiritual_Chaos said:

benjs said:

I’m curious how others would feel about this, but what about an exclusively female vote on a cut-off (after X weeks/months) to permit abortions to shut men up about their bullshit claims of abortions within weeks of a due date?

With the crux of the discussion being "what is life" and "is it a child in there or not", I would say on the most basic level the gender of those who decides/votes doesn't matter. Because it isn't about women or men, is it about "the child".

But I do know someone will now ask me to shut and say something to the effect of "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE WOMAN'S RIGHT TO HER OWN BODY!"

But whatever.

Just allow safe abortions, and take "religion" out of anything that has to do with laws or rules regarding it. In the secular world, this seems to be a non-question.

But... It IS all about the woman's right to her own body. You act as though that isn't a valid perspective .... I hazard to guess that if you were a woman you might take that perspective more seriously, not just say "whatever", or say it is about the "child", not the women. Wtf.

PJ_Soul · June 2019

cincybearcat said:

catefrances said:

cincybearcat said:

catefrances said:

benjs said:

catefrances said:

benjs said:

catefrances said:

sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion.
btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.

Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.

I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.

I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.

thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.

I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.

and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.

Stopping unwanted pregnancies would.
good luck with that.

You don’t think that’s a realistic goal? Then wtf have birth control? Sex education? Etc? I thought even pro-choice people were aligned to these types of things. Guess not.

Dude, come on. You guess not, eh? I'm sure you're aware that the birth control industry is massive? And I think you do indeed know that of course pro-choice people are aligned with those kinds of things, hence their support of Planned Parenthood and other women's healthcare facilities. It's actually the anti-choice people who rail against ALL of those things, and want to shut down Planned Parenthood. They are the ones who are typically against sex education in schools, and against offering free condoms to teens, and against subsidizing birth control. Surely you are aware of that. I really can't quite believe you made this comment.

Spiritual_Chaos · June 2019

cincybearcat said:

catefrances said:

cincybearcat said:

catefrances said:

benjs said:

catefrances said:

benjs said:

catefrances said:

sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion.
btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.

Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.

I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.

I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.

thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.

I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.

and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.

Stopping unwanted pregnancies would.
good luck with that.

You don’t think that’s a realistic goal? Then wtf have birth control? Sex education? Etc? I thought even pro-choice people were aligned to these types of things. Guess not.

..... eh..... What?

catefrances · June 2019

cincybearcat said:

catefrances said:

cincybearcat said:

catefrances said:

benjs said:

catefrances said:

benjs said:

catefrances said:

sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion.
btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.

Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.

I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.

I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.

thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.

I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.

and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.

Stopping unwanted pregnancies would.
good luck with that.

You don’t think that’s a realistic goal? Then wtf have birth control? Sex education? Etc? I thought even pro-choice people were aligned to these types of things. Guess not.

cincy i think its a good goal but ultimately an unrealistic goal. birth control fails. sex education is great but like all education, it isnt necessary taken on board as a way to live ones life. humans arent infallable. we can have the knowledge, we can have the technology but our bodies like to give a little fuck you to us at times. thats why we need a solution so that women all over the world arent held in gestation jail. of course the solution, if you can call it that, is abstention... an interesting thought but an unrealistic path. basically we are animals with an animals instinct to survive and procreate and so we need sex.
but aside all this there are motherfuckers out there who think they can just take what they want by raping women and girls. it is imperative that the victims of crime not be punished further by having agency and autonomy over their own bodies taken from them also. oh and a serious fuck you to anyone who thinks its ok for a child who is raped to be made to carry a pregnancy to term... exactly what world do you live in.

myoung321 · June 2019

Funny how the states with the most restrictive abortion laws seem to also be the ones with the highest numbers of children in foster care system...

Right to Life... just no Right to HealthCare, Day Care, or Higher Education... USA #1

mickeyrat · June 2019

myoung321 said:

Funny how the states with the most restrictive abortion laws seem to also be the ones with the highest numbers of children in foster care system...

Right to Life... just no Right to HealthCare, Day Care, or Higher Education... USA #1

and welfare or working poor.....

dignin · June 2019

Margaret Atwood says it's "a form of slavery to force women to have children they can't afford"

https://www.mic.com/articles/178888/margaret-atwood-says-its-a-form-of-slavery-to-force-women-to-have-children-they-cant-afford

catefrances · June 2019

NO UTERUS, NOT YOUR CHOICE. SIMPLE.

catefrances · June 2019

dignin said:

Margaret Atwood says it's "a form of slavery to force women to have children they can't afford"
https://www.mic.com/articles/178888/margaret-atwood-says-its-a-form-of-slavery-to-force-women-to-have-children-they-cant-afford

"ITS A FORM OF SLAVERY TO FORCE WOMEN TO HAVE CHILDREN THEY DONT WANT"

cincybearcat · June 2019

catefrances said:

NO UTERUS, NOT YOUR CHOICE. SIMPLE.

You forgot to put an exclaimation point with all those CAPS!

catefrances · June 2019

cincybearcat said:

catefrances said:

NO UTERUS, NOT YOUR CHOICE. SIMPLE.

You forgot to put an exclaimation point with all those CAPS!

no i didnt. i chose not to.

cincybearcat · June 2019

catefrances said:

cincybearcat said:

catefrances said:

NO UTERUS, NOT YOUR CHOICE. SIMPLE.

You forgot to put an exclaimation point with all those CAPS!

no i didnt. i chose not to.

OK tHEn.

Spiritual_Chaos · June 2019

https://youtu.be/mM9PM916G78

mickeyrat · June 2019

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-alabama--where-lawmakers-banned-abortion-for-rape-victims--rapists-parental-rights-are-protected/2019/06/09/6d2aa5de-831b-11e9-933d-7501070ee669_story.html?utm_term=.bde86dab26f7

drakeheuer14 · June 2019

catefrances said:

NO UTERUS, NOT YOUR CHOICE. SIMPLE.

IT TAKES TWO TO MAKE IT. SIMPLE.

drakeheuer14 · June 2019

Do the people in here really not believe that there should be a definitive date on the timeline of when an abortion should still be acceptable or not?

hedonist · June 2019

drakeheuer14 said:

catefrances said:

NO UTERUS, NOT YOUR CHOICE. SIMPLE.

IT TAKES TWO TO MAKE IT. SIMPLE.

One body carries it.

Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

Comments

Margaret Atwood says it's "a form of slavery to force women to have children they can't afford"

Margaret Atwood says it's "a form of slavery to force women to have children they can't afford"

Categories