The Democratic Candidates
Comments
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I ll have to read up on Biden s proposal. I think free public education pre-k to 12 is great. No need to expand it to college.mrussel1 said:
He had a whole tax structure for it, but regardless it's not progressive. Buy contrast, Warren's early child care and Bidens Title III education proposal were far more progressive and less socialistmcgruff10 said:
And how the hell do you pay for that?mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
Post edited by mcgruff10 onI'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
No wine with ice for you! And revocation of citizenship for the other!!mcgruff10 said:
Agree. Neil is awful.oftenreading said:
I’m comfortable not seeing Neil anywhere near me.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well. You have that concert hall in Vancouver where you won't even see Neil Young (!) and Sweden has the national arena "Friends Arena" where Eddie had to make excuses from the stage about how they "did all they could to make the sound OK, but they have heard about the problems regarding the sound in the arena".PJ_Soul said:
There is no way I'd choose Sweden over Canada,Meltdown99 said:
Sweden may be a nice country to live, but the grass is not always greener on the other side. So far SC has not said one thing that would make me want to live there...mrussel1 said:
Find a statement that I've made, unprovoked by your ass, that is USA#1, rah rah. You won't find it. We'll go through this cycle again next time you make a similarly disparaging statement for no reason. Unfortunately I have to keep going back to WW2 because Sweden is inconsequential post the Viking invasion of Wessex until then, and after.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Oh, the ironymrussel1 said:
So long as he feels compelled to make one statement that he thinks encompasses 300 million people, I'm going to do the same. The ignorance is astounding to me and I won't sitand not write back. We've been through it 5 different times at least.PJ_Soul said:
The entire conversation is.mcgruff10 said:
This is pretty dumb.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well ofc. I am able to be objective.mrussel1 said:
We do appreciate that you aren't critical of the US (and Canada) for saving your country. That's big of you.
That is one of the perks of not being raised in a country with an alarming amount of spoon-feeding of nationalism and singing the national anthem 15-16 times a day. :P
(And for some perspective, the US didn't join the war for over two years before they themselves were attacked)
A lot of people died with the US being neutral for those two years. A shame.
It's a coin toss. :P
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
I spend more time in Canada than Neil does.Halifax2TheMax said:
No wine with ice for you! And revocation of citizenship for the other!!mcgruff10 said:
Agree. Neil is awful.oftenreading said:
I’m comfortable not seeing Neil anywhere near me.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well. You have that concert hall in Vancouver where you won't even see Neil Young (!) and Sweden has the national arena "Friends Arena" where Eddie had to make excuses from the stage about how they "did all they could to make the sound OK, but they have heard about the problems regarding the sound in the arena".PJ_Soul said:
There is no way I'd choose Sweden over Canada,Meltdown99 said:
Sweden may be a nice country to live, but the grass is not always greener on the other side. So far SC has not said one thing that would make me want to live there...mrussel1 said:
Find a statement that I've made, unprovoked by your ass, that is USA#1, rah rah. You won't find it. We'll go through this cycle again next time you make a similarly disparaging statement for no reason. Unfortunately I have to keep going back to WW2 because Sweden is inconsequential post the Viking invasion of Wessex until then, and after.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Oh, the ironymrussel1 said:
So long as he feels compelled to make one statement that he thinks encompasses 300 million people, I'm going to do the same. The ignorance is astounding to me and I won't sitand not write back. We've been through it 5 different times at least.PJ_Soul said:
The entire conversation is.mcgruff10 said:
This is pretty dumb.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well ofc. I am able to be objective.mrussel1 said:
We do appreciate that you aren't critical of the US (and Canada) for saving your country. That's big of you.
That is one of the perks of not being raised in a country with an alarming amount of spoon-feeding of nationalism and singing the national anthem 15-16 times a day. :P
(And for some perspective, the US didn't join the war for over two years before they themselves were attacked)
A lot of people died with the US being neutral for those two years. A shame.
It's a coin toss. :P
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
It really is. There is some really nice hiking in the area as well. I did the Oak Creek Canyon Drive, really beautiful...benjs said:
Went to Sedona last year after a conference and holy crap was it ever beautiful!Meltdown99 said:
I am beginning to think if someone says something positive about the US others will go out of there way to also disparage the US...anyways...Arizona would be my winter home if I could afford it. Sedona to be specific. And Canada would remain my permanent home.mcgruff10 said:What makes you think the us education system is failing? If anything at least around here it is better than ever. (New Jersey is ranked either 1 or 2 in the us)
and remember, standardized tests are just a snapshot off the students year.Give Peas A Chance…0 -
Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most? I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.Give Peas A Chance…0 -
Yes absolutely. You can do two years of junior college and then transfer to a state university. People make bad choices and attend private and out of state colleges, substantially increasing their debt. And for those that are from truly disadvantaged backgrounds, there are plenty of federal grants.Meltdown99 said:
Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most? I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
You can also do what my daughter is doing now. She took AP classes in high school so she had over 25 credits when she entered William and Mary, a public school. Then she maxed out each semester at 18 credits. The price was the same whether you do 12 or 18. So she will graduate a full year early, saving us a good chunk.0 -
It sounds like there are plenty of options...no matter the income level.mrussel1 said:
Yes absolutely. You can do two years of junior college and then transfer to a state university. People make bad choices and attend private and out of state colleges, substantially increasing their debt. And for those that are from truly disadvantaged backgrounds, there are plenty of federal grants.Meltdown99 said:
Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most? I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
You can also do what my daughter is doing now. She took AP classes in high school so she had over 25 credits when she entered William and Mary, a public school. Then she maxed out each semester at 18 credits. The price was the same whether you do 12 or 18. So she will graduate a full year early, saving us a good chunk.Give Peas A Chance…0 -
In Canada we have highly subsidized education for college/university (I suppose somewhere between the States and no-pay countries in Europe, closer to Europe) but I have to say - this is socialism, and this is something palatable to Canadians. Ramming these same concepts down the throats of Americans is only progress if they’re accepted by the people and the lawmakers (and if they’re viable economically), and frankly, I don’t see it being accepted by any group based on the sentiments seen in the country today. It’s only progress if the needle moves - if the ideas are too stigmatized to succeed then trying to make them succeed is asinine. Before cranking it to 11, recognizing the polarization which exists today and making smaller moves in a direction we see as valid will likely be the only way these reforms pass. You can have the best ideas in the world but if you can’t execute then there’s the real moot point.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Your distinction is moot. I'm not talking about your distinction.mrussel1 said:
You don't have a vote and you still don't understand the political distinction I am drawing.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Debt forgiveness I do not understand.mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
Free college tuition - didn't you already have that decades ago in the states (?). I don't see any reason why you should have a paywall to help rich people get better education (but maybe there is one). If Sweden, and other countries, can have "free tuition" and no paywall to get into a College and University - then I vote PROGRESS on that one.
Moving towards a European model of not paywalling people out of education in the Twilight Zone of America is PROGRESS.
I press that button again:
Also, I don’t know if I’d like Sanders’ plan, and maybe that’s because four fucking bullet points isn’t a plan. Biden’s plan linked for contrast. These both are written so politically - all glorious things which ‘will happen if I become President’ without discussing downstream/upstream of the plan.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/college-for-all/
https://joebiden.com/education/
Finally, why does everything someone doesn’t like on here need a fucking nickname? Do you need to show smug elitism at least once per post? It’s not helping you sell your ideas which is why you start to resemble a troll on here.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Well, I am from the city of:benjs said:which is why you start to resemble a troll on here.
Notice the sticker put on the cars rolling out of our once beautiful SAAB factory:
Here is Jay Leno driving one, notice the sticker:
My take is though, people who consider me a "troll" need to look themselves in the mirror. Your country will not cry itself to sleep because I gave it a nickname. It is not a person. I understand it is the land of the free and a nation under god. But it is not crying itself to sleep. I can assure you.
Obviously I can understand if it did cry itself to sleep, being played like a harp from hell by Trump, the corrupt republicans and people not being able to see other countries do some things a lot better and more sane.Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Please don’t treat me like an idiot. I know you’re not talking to a country - you’re talking to residents of one and your stupid names regularly change the conversation dramatically from the thing that you’re advocating for. On the topic of mirrors - why don’t you look at your posts here and see how they stoke the flames of what you call nationalism on here, propagating the thing you claim to hate the most. You’re also mockingly bringing up the land of the free bullshit yet again, not anyone else.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well, I am from the city of:benjs said:which is why you start to resemble a troll on here.
Notice the sticker put on the cars rolling out of our once beautiful SAAB factory:
Here is Jay Leno driving one, notice the sticker:
My take is though, people who consider me a "troll" need to look themselves in the mirror. Your country will not cry itself to sleep because I gave it a nickname. It is not a person. I understand it is the land of the free and a nation under god. But it is not crying itself to sleep. I can assure you.
Obviously I can understand if it did cry itself to sleep, being played like a harp from hell by Trump, the corrupt republicans and people not being able to see other countries do some things a lot better and more sane.
Thanks also for ignoring the substantial part of my message and focusing on one sentence. You present ideas that work in Sweden like they should just be plug-and-play, and boom, progress. Things don’t exist in vacuums and what works in one nation may be a noble aspiration for another, but still likely won’t be feasible in such a polarized political and socioeconomic environment as the US today.
For example, Republicans have already weaponized socialistic behaviours, and college-for-all will be exclusively cost for the entire tenure of a hypothetical Sanders presidency. That will be inevitably be exploited as proof of the socialistic boogeyman. In addition, while you have consensus in your mind (so nice and easy to form consensus with a party of one) America doesn’t share your confidence about the direction it should take. Also, my stance that these ideas will not reach a chance to move forward is not without precedence: Bernie ran on the same platform last time and where did that get him? What you would call the corrupt system is the only system the States have to work with right now, and if a politician can’t operate within it to sell their ideas successfully, their ideas are clearly doomed. I will take a smaller amount of progress in progressive directions over no amount of progress due to an unwillingness to compromise to anything less than glorious Swedish levels any day.
One last note, while I am a dual citizen of Canada and the US, I would not claim to call the States ‘my country’ having never lived there before. Not a big deal though.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
BTW SC, I’m going to bow out of this one. I hope someone else has the energy to play these games with you, and I hope I can develop the self-restraint to never play them again with you. It’s a joke to you and it shows.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Okey. Will try to remember to let you know, if you find yourself getting lured back in.benjs said:I hope I can develop the self-restraint to never play them again with you.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Well there is a problem though. The cost curve has far outpaced any other normal inflation by a long shot. I think the root is a mixture of 1. cuts at the state gov't level for university funding (remember there are no federal schools), a massive increase in the investment of amenities at the schools and then students make poor choices about what they can afford long term. The availability of public and private money makes it easy to choose that small liberal arts school at 45k a year. We need reform, but just socializing it is not the answer.Meltdown99 said:
It sounds like there are plenty of options...no matter the income level.mrussel1 said:
Yes absolutely. You can do two years of junior college and then transfer to a state university. People make bad choices and attend private and out of state colleges, substantially increasing their debt. And for those that are from truly disadvantaged backgrounds, there are plenty of federal grants.Meltdown99 said:
Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most? I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
You can also do what my daughter is doing now. She took AP classes in high school so she had over 25 credits when she entered William and Mary, a public school. Then she maxed out each semester at 18 credits. The price was the same whether you do 12 or 18. So she will graduate a full year early, saving us a good chunk.0 -
mrussel1 said:
Well there is a problem though. The cost curve has far outpaced any other normal inflation by a long shot. I think the root is a mixture of 1. cuts at the state gov't level for university funding (remember there are no federal schools), a massive increase in the investment of amenities at the schools and then students make poor choices about what they can afford long term. The availability of public and private money makes it easy to choose that small liberal arts school at 45k a year. We need reform, but just socializing it is not the answer.Meltdown99 said:mo
It sounds like there are plenty of options...no matter the income level.mrussel1 said:
Yes absolutely. You can do two years of junior college and then transfer to a state university. People make bad choices and attend private and out of state colleges, substantially increasing their debt. And for those that are from truly disadvantaged backgrounds, there are plenty of federal grants.Meltdown99 said:
Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most? I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
You can also do what my daughter is doing now. She took AP classes in high school so she had over 25 credits when she entered William and Mary, a public school. Then she maxed out each semester at 18 credits. The price was the same whether you do 12 or 18. So she will graduate a full year early, saving us a good chunk.also need to talk about the possibility of vocational education as much as college education.all the automated shit here now and coming in the future will require installation and maintenance as well as repair techs...._____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Very true. Engineers and maintenance techs are the future.mickeyrat said:mrussel1 said:
Well there is a problem though. The cost curve has far outpaced any other normal inflation by a long shot. I think the root is a mixture of 1. cuts at the state gov't level for university funding (remember there are no federal schools), a massive increase in the investment of amenities at the schools and then students make poor choices about what they can afford long term. The availability of public and private money makes it easy to choose that small liberal arts school at 45k a year. We need reform, but just socializing it is not the answer.Meltdown99 said:mo
It sounds like there are plenty of options...no matter the income level.mrussel1 said:
Yes absolutely. You can do two years of junior college and then transfer to a state university. People make bad choices and attend private and out of state colleges, substantially increasing their debt. And for those that are from truly disadvantaged backgrounds, there are plenty of federal grants.Meltdown99 said:
Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most? I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
You can also do what my daughter is doing now. She took AP classes in high school so she had over 25 credits when she entered William and Mary, a public school. Then she maxed out each semester at 18 credits. The price was the same whether you do 12 or 18. So she will graduate a full year early, saving us a good chunk.also need to talk about the possibility of vocational education as much as college education.all the automated shit here now and coming in the future will require installation and maintenance as well as repair techs....0 -
In addition, there are universities with terrific co-op/intern programs. I had a 5 year program for engineering. However, that included 7 quarters (the equivalent of 2.3 years of normal college) of co-point...working for pay in the field of choice.Meltdown99 said:
Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most? I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
I did have a scholly that helped freshmen year, but after that I was able to pay for everything based on my own earnings, and this was without a job during the quarters I was at school. So there are some great options out there, but it still hard to argue that universities aren’t out of reach for many still. I’m not sure why more don’t consider community colleges...the system is in place there. I’d support some government funding for specific degrees at community colleges and trade schools...with much more limited support for 4 year schools unless targeted degrees.hippiemom = goodness0 -
This is the same argument I've been making since Sanders came out with his free tuition. I would support juco then state u. for targeted degrees where the state or fed has a clear current or future need. There should be some sort of means testing as well, but I'd probably extend that into the middle class.cincybearcat said:
In addition, there are universities with terrific co-op/intern programs. I had a 5 year program for engineering. However, that included 7 quarters (the equivalent of 2.3 years of normal college) of co-point...working for pay in the field of choice.Meltdown99 said:
Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most? I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
I did have a scholly that helped freshmen year, but after that I was able to pay for everything based on my own earnings, and this was without a job during the quarters I was at school. So there are some great options out there, but it still hard to argue that universities aren’t out of reach for many still. I’m not sure why more don’t consider community colleges...the system is in place there. I’d support some government funding for specific degrees at community colleges and trade schools...with much more limited support for 4 year schools unless targeted degrees.0 -
If benjs is backing out of a conversation with you, you should probably think a bit about your posting. He is probably the most level headed person here.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Will try to remember to let you know, if you find yourself getting lured back in.benjs said:I hope I can develop the self-restraint to never play them again with you.hippiemom = goodness0 -
I think the same can be said here Canada about the cost. Now, it's safe to assume when people talk free education, they are referring to tuition? Because I worked with a fellow who did not see free education as all that much help in the grand scheme of things...because his daughter had to attend school out of town, housing, books and daily living far outweighed tuition...or does free include all this as well? Don't get me wrong any help is appreciated, but either way, as he put it, it's still costing a good chunk of coin.mrussel1 said:
Well there is a problem though. The cost curve has far outpaced any other normal inflation by a long shot. I think the root is a mixture of 1. cuts at the state gov't level for university funding (remember there are no federal schools), a massive increase in the investment of amenities at the schools and then students make poor choices about what they can afford long term. The availability of public and private money makes it easy to choose that small liberal arts school at 45k a year. We need reform, but just socializing it is not the answer.Meltdown99 said:
It sounds like there are plenty of options...no matter the income level.mrussel1 said:
Yes absolutely. You can do two years of junior college and then transfer to a state university. People make bad choices and attend private and out of state colleges, substantially increasing their debt. And for those that are from truly disadvantaged backgrounds, there are plenty of federal grants.Meltdown99 said:
Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most? I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
You can also do what my daughter is doing now. She took AP classes in high school so she had over 25 credits when she entered William and Mary, a public school. Then she maxed out each semester at 18 credits. The price was the same whether you do 12 or 18. So she will graduate a full year early, saving us a good chunk.Give Peas A Chance…0 -
In Sweden (as an example I know a little about) you do not pay for the tuition or to attend the University etc. This is free - and everyone has a "fair" shot, regardless of economic means. It's all about your grades when competing for a spot.Meltdown99 said:
I think the same can be said here Canada about the cost. Now, it's safe to assume when people talk free education, they are referring to tuition? Because I worked with a fellow who did not see free education as all that much help in the grand scheme of things...because his daughter had to attend school out of town, housing, books and daily living far outweighed tuition...or does free include all this as well? Don't get me wrong any help is appreciated, but either way, as he put it, it's still costing a good chunk of coin.mrussel1 said:
Well there is a problem though. The cost curve has far outpaced any other normal inflation by a long shot. I think the root is a mixture of 1. cuts at the state gov't level for university funding (remember there are no federal schools), a massive increase in the investment of amenities at the schools and then students make poor choices about what they can afford long term. The availability of public and private money makes it easy to choose that small liberal arts school at 45k a year. We need reform, but just socializing it is not the answer.Meltdown99 said:
It sounds like there are plenty of options...no matter the income level.mrussel1 said:
Yes absolutely. You can do two years of junior college and then transfer to a state university. People make bad choices and attend private and out of state colleges, substantially increasing their debt. And for those that are from truly disadvantaged backgrounds, there are plenty of federal grants.Meltdown99 said:
Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most? I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?mrussel1 said:
Free college tuition and debt forgiveness. These are not progressive. They disproportionately help middle class white people.Spiritual_Chaos said:
list some policies of his you do not like?mrussel1 said:
So does mine. Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive. I don't like them.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. Well my point still stands.mrussel1 said:
Progress is not synonymous with progressive. They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same. None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?mrussel1 said:
Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the US, it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.mrussel1 said:
Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.Spiritual_Chaos said:ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?
So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
You can also do what my daughter is doing now. She took AP classes in high school so she had over 25 credits when she entered William and Mary, a public school. Then she maxed out each semester at 18 credits. The price was the same whether you do 12 or 18. So she will graduate a full year early, saving us a good chunk.
You do pay for books, housing, materials ofc though.
In Sweden you get a "subsidy/grant" for studying and you can also add a "state funded" student loan with "generous" terms . Which pretty much everyone does, if they do not choose to work instead or live at home.
Per week (for University and similar schools) at the moment it is:
Subsidy/Grant: $85
Loan (100%): $195Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
This discussion has been closed.
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