Donald Trump

PJ_Soul said:

But I don't understand not wanting to think about all the terrible shit that was done during the war either TBH. Because that's a view of just how bad things could get if people are dismissive of Trump's tactics now. WWII and the holocaust should ALWAYS be viewed as warnings for us in the present, since it would be extremely naive to think it or something similar in various ways, to a greater or lesser extent, can't happen again. When you see the warning signs in Trump that Hitler displayed as well in the years leading up to WWII, why would you assume that it might not get just as bad in America as it did in Nazi Germany (or even a fraction as bad, which is beyond bad enough!)? This is why I have always found this knee-jerk aversion to Hitler comparisons disturbing. It's like setting America up for terrible things my means of denial.

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1130694975476445184?s=21
he’s been joking about this for the past yr when will he be taken seriously!

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But I don't understand not wanting to think about all the terrible shit that was done during the war either TBH. Because that's a view of just how bad things could get if people are dismissive of Trump's tactics now. WWII and the holocaust should ALWAYS be viewed as warnings for us in the present, since it would be extremely naive to think it or something similar in various ways, to a greater or lesser extent, can't happen again. When you see the warning signs in Trump that Hitler displayed as well in the years leading up to WWII, why would you assume that it might not get just as bad in America as it did in Nazi Germany (or even a fraction as bad, which is beyond bad enough!)? This is why I have always found this knee-jerk aversion to Hitler comparisons disturbing. It's like setting America up for terrible things my means of denial.

I think the 33% are susceptible to his bullshit but the majority of the country is not.  Personally, I'm concerned about the long term health of our democracy and the checks and balances that require commitment to the Constitution to work.  In other words, the most disturbing thing he has done so far is fighting the congressional oversight.  So often his rhetoric does not match his actions.  In fact, on the world stage, Trump comes off as toothless even with his saber rattling.  The most meaningful thing he has done is refuse to honor the JCPOA.  Everything else has been just noise.  Domestically, most of the immigration stuff is fairly appalling other than that, he continues to fold when the going gets tough.  It's always been his MO personally and professionally, to make a bunch of noise, but be a bore.  

Boy, I think you're really underestimating how dangerous Trump is TBH, and the actual harm he is doing, if you think "everything else is just noise". What about the deregulation of environmental protections, his trade war with China, the very real threat to women's rights, the impact of the travel bans, and the very serious and damaging impact he's having on the public as far as the free press goes? And just the rhetoric alone will also have a long-lasting negative impact on America, both socially and politically. I know what you mean about the 33%. The problem is that some of the bullshit actually affects the rest of the population as well, slowly but surely. That is how Hitler got the majority of Germans to go along eventually, and to at least be apathetic, and not just the minority that straight up supported him and his crazier viewpoints. The psychological affects of this shit gets under the skin. Plus, some of what you're calling noise really isn't, as Jose just suggested as well. I think you shouldn't be so dismissive of his "noise". It carries meaning.

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But I don't understand not wanting to think about all the terrible shit that was done during the war either TBH. Because that's a view of just how bad things could get if people are dismissive of Trump's tactics now. WWII and the holocaust should ALWAYS be viewed as warnings for us in the present, since it would be extremely naive to think it or something similar in various ways, to a greater or lesser extent, can't happen again. When you see the warning signs in Trump that Hitler displayed as well in the years leading up to WWII, why would you assume that it might not get just as bad in America as it did in Nazi Germany (or even a fraction as bad, which is beyond bad enough!)? This is why I have always found this knee-jerk aversion to Hitler comparisons disturbing. It's like setting America up for terrible things my means of denial.

I think the 33% are susceptible to his bullshit but the majority of the country is not.  Personally, I'm concerned about the long term health of our democracy and the checks and balances that require commitment to the Constitution to work.  In other words, the most disturbing thing he has done so far is fighting the congressional oversight.  So often his rhetoric does not match his actions.  In fact, on the world stage, Trump comes off as toothless even with his saber rattling.  The most meaningful thing he has done is refuse to honor the JCPOA.  Everything else has been just noise.  Domestically, most of the immigration stuff is fairly appalling other than that, he continues to fold when the going gets tough.  It's always been his MO personally and professionally, to make a bunch of noise, but be a bore.  

Boy, I think you're really underestimating how dangerous Trump is TBH, and the actual harm he is doing, if you think "everything else is just noise". What about the deregulation of environmental protections, his trade war with China, the very real threat to women's rights, the impact of the travel bans, and the very serious and damaging impact he's having on the public as far as the free press goes? And just the rhetoric alone will also have a long-lasting negative impact on America, both socially and politically. I know what you mean about the 33%. The problem is that some of the bullshit actually affects the rest of the population as well, slowly but surely. That is how Hitler got the majority of Germans to go along eventually, and to at least be apathetic, and not just the minority that straight up supported him and his crazier viewpoints. The psychological affects of this shit gets under the skin. Plus, some of what you're calling noise really isn't, as Jose just suggested as well. I think you shouldn't be so dismissive of his "noise". It carries meaning.

The policies, while misguided and generally diabolical, are legal.  I'm against just about every one of them.  But they don't threaten our democracy.  Now do they harm individuals and environment?  Yes, absolutely.  But I am drawing a distinction between legal policies that I despise and someone moving towards a true dictatorship.  And you're right, it carries meaning and I think he means what he says, but he has the gift of the cult of personality.  Fortunately he's an old man and his children are even more of a bore than him, and without a personality.  That's why the family isn't as concerning to me long term.  

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But I don't understand not wanting to think about all the terrible shit that was done during the war either TBH. Because that's a view of just how bad things could get if people are dismissive of Trump's tactics now. WWII and the holocaust should ALWAYS be viewed as warnings for us in the present, since it would be extremely naive to think it or something similar in various ways, to a greater or lesser extent, can't happen again. When you see the warning signs in Trump that Hitler displayed as well in the years leading up to WWII, why would you assume that it might not get just as bad in America as it did in Nazi Germany (or even a fraction as bad, which is beyond bad enough!)? This is why I have always found this knee-jerk aversion to Hitler comparisons disturbing. It's like setting America up for terrible things my means of denial.

I think the 33% are susceptible to his bullshit but the majority of the country is not.  Personally, I'm concerned about the long term health of our democracy and the checks and balances that require commitment to the Constitution to work.  In other words, the most disturbing thing he has done so far is fighting the congressional oversight.  So often his rhetoric does not match his actions.  In fact, on the world stage, Trump comes off as toothless even with his saber rattling.  The most meaningful thing he has done is refuse to honor the JCPOA.  Everything else has been just noise.  Domestically, most of the immigration stuff is fairly appalling other than that, he continues to fold when the going gets tough.  It's always been his MO personally and professionally, to make a bunch of noise, but be a bore.  

Boy, I think you're really underestimating how dangerous Trump is TBH, and the actual harm he is doing, if you think "everything else is just noise". What about the deregulation of environmental protections, his trade war with China, the very real threat to women's rights, the impact of the travel bans, and the very serious and damaging impact he's having on the public as far as the free press goes? And just the rhetoric alone will also have a long-lasting negative impact on America, both socially and politically. I know what you mean about the 33%. The problem is that some of the bullshit actually affects the rest of the population as well, slowly but surely. That is how Hitler got the majority of Germans to go along eventually, and to at least be apathetic, and not just the minority that straight up supported him and his crazier viewpoints. The psychological affects of this shit gets under the skin. Plus, some of what you're calling noise really isn't, as Jose just suggested as well. I think you shouldn't be so dismissive of his "noise". It carries meaning.

The policies, while misguided and generally diabolical, are legal.  I'm against just about every one of them.  But they don't threaten our democracy.  Now do they harm individuals and environment?  Yes, absolutely.  But I am drawing a distinction between legal policies that I despise and someone moving towards a true dictatorship.  And you're right, it carries meaning and I think he means what he says, but he has the gift of the cult of personality.  Fortunately he's an old man and his children are even more of a bore than him, and without a personality.  That's why the family isn't as concerning to me long term.  

The abortion bills aren't legal. They are unconstitutional. So are a lot of the other things he's doing. Not to mention all of his illegal activity, lol, particularly when it comes to his profiting from the presidency, and the obstruction of justice, and his urging to ignore subpoenas... etc. How many investigations are still going on against him right now? Several, no? Like a dozen at least?

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But I don't understand not wanting to think about all the terrible shit that was done during the war either TBH. Because that's a view of just how bad things could get if people are dismissive of Trump's tactics now. WWII and the holocaust should ALWAYS be viewed as warnings for us in the present, since it would be extremely naive to think it or something similar in various ways, to a greater or lesser extent, can't happen again. When you see the warning signs in Trump that Hitler displayed as well in the years leading up to WWII, why would you assume that it might not get just as bad in America as it did in Nazi Germany (or even a fraction as bad, which is beyond bad enough!)? This is why I have always found this knee-jerk aversion to Hitler comparisons disturbing. It's like setting America up for terrible things my means of denial.

I think the 33% are susceptible to his bullshit but the majority of the country is not.  Personally, I'm concerned about the long term health of our democracy and the checks and balances that require commitment to the Constitution to work.  In other words, the most disturbing thing he has done so far is fighting the congressional oversight.  So often his rhetoric does not match his actions.  In fact, on the world stage, Trump comes off as toothless even with his saber rattling.  The most meaningful thing he has done is refuse to honor the JCPOA.  Everything else has been just noise.  Domestically, most of the immigration stuff is fairly appalling other than that, he continues to fold when the going gets tough.  It's always been his MO personally and professionally, to make a bunch of noise, but be a bore.  

Boy, I think you're really underestimating how dangerous Trump is TBH, and the actual harm he is doing, if you think "everything else is just noise". What about the deregulation of environmental protections, his trade war with China, the very real threat to women's rights, the impact of the travel bans, and the very serious and damaging impact he's having on the public as far as the free press goes? And just the rhetoric alone will also have a long-lasting negative impact on America, both socially and politically. I know what you mean about the 33%. The problem is that some of the bullshit actually affects the rest of the population as well, slowly but surely. That is how Hitler got the majority of Germans to go along eventually, and to at least be apathetic, and not just the minority that straight up supported him and his crazier viewpoints. The psychological affects of this shit gets under the skin. Plus, some of what you're calling noise really isn't, as Jose just suggested as well. I think you shouldn't be so dismissive of his "noise". It carries meaning.

The policies, while misguided and generally diabolical, are legal.  I'm against just about every one of them.  But they don't threaten our democracy.  Now do they harm individuals and environment?  Yes, absolutely.  But I am drawing a distinction between legal policies that I despise and someone moving towards a true dictatorship.  And you're right, it carries meaning and I think he means what he says, but he has the gift of the cult of personality.  Fortunately he's an old man and his children are even more of a bore than him, and without a personality.  That's why the family isn't as concerning to me long term.  

The abortion bills aren't legal. They are unconstitutional. So are a lot of the other things he's doing. Not to mention all of his illegal activity, lol, particularly when it comes to his profiting from the presidency, and the obstruction of justice, and his urging to ignore subpoenas... etc. How many investigations are still going on against him right now? Several, no? Like a dozen at least?

The bills will likely be stayed until they go to the SCOTUS.  And your secondary points are exactly what I have talked about, lack of adherence to congressional oversight.  All of your criticisms fall into that bucket.  

But you seem to be trusting that he's not going to get away with it... I think many disagree, and that is obviously why people are so worried, and why I think you should be more worried. You still seem to have total faith in those checks and balances that everyone was talking about in 2016... But I see a lot of good reasons not to have very much faith in them because of how Trump operates. That is the whole point I think. That Constitution of yours isn't actually infallible. Also, there are still kids in cages and still thousands of kids who were kidnapped by the government and still missing. Obviously checks and balances are not working.

PJ_Soul said:

Okay, good! (well not good, but...).... It also does work if someone can fill the supreme court with partisan creeps obviously, nor when the majority of congress is corrupt. Sigh.

I still also wouldn't be surprised if he starts a war to try and stay in office though.

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Okay, good! (well not good, but...).... It also does work if someone can fill the supreme court with partisan creeps obviously, nor when the majority of congress is corrupt. Sigh.

I still also wouldn't be surprised if he starts a war to try and stay in office though.

He's definitely saber rattling on Iran.  But he won't do anything.  He's full of shit 24/7

He actually doesn't have to do much more. It's Iran, and the middle east. Saber rattling can be the difference between war and peace, and will at the very least create terrorist attacks. But why do you think war with Iran is impossible, when the motivation is Trump staying in office? That isn't unrealistic at all IMO, especially not when he's replacing military leaders in his administration with fucking corporate CEOs.