I was brought up in a horrible Catholic environment as well. Nuns locked kids in lockers, threw erasers, we were punished unfairly, etc. I had to go to church 4x a week, 3 of them for school. The redeeming factor is that church wine is quite delicious and the priests had no inventory control mechanism. So to be clear, I'm not espousing organized religion. I'm saying it's a political and moral mistake not to use the teachings of Jesus, and the social values around the poor, indigent, the strangers in our land, and the command to stand humbly before God and man. When Democrats hand that over to the Republicans, we lose a strong moral high ground while this administration literally shits on it.
That's what I thought you were saying, and I agree there. As long as this is kept as value-driven discussions, I see no problem with talking about how religious texts agree with those values that are core to the society we want to perpetuate and providing examples of that. As for wine - that's key in Judaism as well. We actually have a holiday where Jews are commanded to get drunk enough that they can't tell right from wrong.
The Jews celebrate the purge? Crazy!
Not sure what the purge is! This is Purim (one of several Jewish holidays centered around _________ was trying to ________ us and failed, so let's celebrate with food and drink). Purim: Haman was trying to kill us, he failed, let's eat and drink Passover: Pharaoh was enslaving us, we got away, let's eat and drink Channukah: The temple was destroyed, we've got a new one but only enough oil for one day - lasted eight - let's eat and drink
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I was brought up in a horrible Catholic environment as well. Nuns locked kids in lockers, threw erasers, we were punished unfairly, etc. I had to go to church 4x a week, 3 of them for school. The redeeming factor is that church wine is quite delicious and the priests had no inventory control mechanism. So to be clear, I'm not espousing organized religion. I'm saying it's a political and moral mistake not to use the teachings of Jesus, and the social values around the poor, indigent, the strangers in our land, and the command to stand humbly before God and man. When Democrats hand that over to the Republicans, we lose a strong moral high ground while this administration literally shits on it.
That's what I thought you were saying, and I agree there. As long as this is kept as value-driven discussions, I see no problem with talking about how religious texts agree with those values that are core to the society we want to perpetuate and providing examples of that. As for wine - that's key in Judaism as well. We actually have a holiday where Jews are commanded to get drunk enough that they can't tell right from wrong.
The Jews celebrate the purge? Crazy!
Not sure what the purge is! This is Purim (one of several Jewish holidays centered around _________ was trying to ________ us and failed, so let's celebrate with food and drink). Purim: Haman was trying to kill us, he failed, let's eat and drink Passover: Pharaoh was enslaving us, we got away, let's eat and drink Channukah: The temple was destroyed, we've got a new one but only enough oil for one day - lasted eight - let's eat and drink
Sounds like a pretty good religion, except for all the escapes from certain death.
I was brought up in a horrible Catholic environment as well. Nuns locked kids in lockers, threw erasers, we were punished unfairly, etc. I had to go to church 4x a week, 3 of them for school. The redeeming factor is that church wine is quite delicious and the priests had no inventory control mechanism. So to be clear, I'm not espousing organized religion. I'm saying it's a political and moral mistake not to use the teachings of Jesus, and the social values around the poor, indigent, the strangers in our land, and the command to stand humbly before God and man. When Democrats hand that over to the Republicans, we lose a strong moral high ground while this administration literally shits on it.
That's what I thought you were saying, and I agree there. As long as this is kept as value-driven discussions, I see no problem with talking about how religious texts agree with those values that are core to the society we want to perpetuate and providing examples of that. As for wine - that's key in Judaism as well. We actually have a holiday where Jews are commanded to get drunk enough that they can't tell right from wrong.
The Jews celebrate the purge? Crazy!
Not sure what the purge is! This is Purim (one of several Jewish holidays centered around _________ was trying to ________ us and failed, so let's celebrate with food and drink). Purim: Haman was trying to kill us, he failed, let's eat and drink Passover: Pharaoh was enslaving us, we got away, let's eat and drink Channukah: The temple was destroyed, we've got a new one but only enough oil for one day - lasted eight - let's eat and drink
Sounds like a pretty good religion, except for all the escapes from certain death.
It's good for family togetherness. And for if you want to claim elitist status or rationalize murder or oppression through that status.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I was brought up in a horrible Catholic environment as well. Nuns locked kids in lockers, threw erasers, we were punished unfairly, etc. I had to go to church 4x a week, 3 of them for school. The redeeming factor is that church wine is quite delicious and the priests had no inventory control mechanism. So to be clear, I'm not espousing organized religion. I'm saying it's a political and moral mistake not to use the teachings of Jesus, and the social values around the poor, indigent, the strangers in our land, and the command to stand humbly before God and man. When Democrats hand that over to the Republicans, we lose a strong moral high ground while this administration literally shits on it.
That's what I thought you were saying, and I agree there. As long as this is kept as value-driven discussions, I see no problem with talking about how religious texts agree with those values that are core to the society we want to perpetuate and providing examples of that. As for wine - that's key in Judaism as well. We actually have a holiday where Jews are commanded to get drunk enough that they can't tell right from wrong.
The Jews celebrate the purge? Crazy!
Not sure what the purge is! This is Purim (one of several Jewish holidays centered around _________ was trying to ________ us and failed, so let's celebrate with food and drink). Purim: Haman was trying to kill us, he failed, let's eat and drink Passover: Pharaoh was enslaving us, we got away, let's eat and drink Channukah: The temple was destroyed, we've got a new one but only enough oil for one day - lasted eight - let's eat and drink
Sounds like a pretty good religion, except for all the escapes from certain death.
It's good for family togetherness. And for if you want to claim elitist status or rationalize murder or oppression through that status.
He likes using the word troll a lot today it seems.
I learned troll yesterday, you learned echo chamber. We're even. On a slightly different note, I do apologize for calling you a dick yesterday. I went too far. My bad. I still think your comment to PJ Soul was dickish though, but that does not necessarily make you an actual phallus..maybe a taint? Kidding.
Thanks for asking the question mrussel1! Even though we never got an answer.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I was brought up in a horrible Catholic environment as well. Nuns locked kids in lockers, threw erasers, we were punished unfairly, etc. I had to go to church 4x a week, 3 of them for school. The redeeming factor is that church wine is quite delicious and the priests had no inventory control mechanism. So to be clear, I'm not espousing organized religion. I'm saying it's a political and moral mistake not to use the teachings of Jesus, and the social values around the poor, indigent, the strangers in our land, and the command to stand humbly before God and man. When Democrats hand that over to the Republicans, we lose a strong moral high ground while this administration literally shits on it.
That's what I thought you were saying, and I agree there. As long as this is kept as value-driven discussions, I see no problem with talking about how religious texts agree with those values that are core to the society we want to perpetuate and providing examples of that. As for wine - that's key in Judaism as well. We actually have a holiday where Jews are commanded to get drunk enough that they can't tell right from wrong.
The Jews celebrate the purge? Crazy!
Not sure what the purge is! This is Purim (one of several Jewish holidays centered around _________ was trying to ________ us and failed, so let's celebrate with food and drink). Purim: Haman was trying to kill us, he failed, let's eat and drink Passover: Pharaoh was enslaving us, we got away, let's eat and drink Channukah: The temple was destroyed, we've got a new one but only enough oil for one day - lasted eight - let's eat and drink
Purim Jam
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,798
Re Mayor Pete - One thing about him which I really like is that he does not appear to be afraid to embrace his Christian faith. Several months ago, I brought up the point that the left needs to reclaim Jesus, and how progressive his teachings truly are. In this forum, the idea wasn't received particularly well (although everyone was very nice about it). So I'm going to bring it up again. It's both a moral and political mistake to cede the teachings of Jesus to the religious right. Here's a recent quote from Pete:
“We need to not be afraid to invoke arguments … on why Christian faith is going to point you in a progressive direction,” he recently told USA Today. He also questioned Donald Trump’s religious sincerity. “I’m reluctant to comment on another person’s faith,” Buttigieg said, “but I would say it is hard to look at this president’s actions and believe that they’re the actions of somebody who believes in God.”
I believe that a candidate can be true and open about their faith without it being a risk to putting the 10 Commandments on the courthouse steps or making laws based on the writings of Leviticus. Hearing Pete speak about this is definitely a mark in the "positive" column for me.
mrussel, I want to be careful not to offend, and want to start by admitting personal bias here, as I'm not a fan of religion. I went through religious day school when I was younger, and I still have anger and resentment for being forced to pray to a god I don't believe in, as some form of penance for not doing homework. Sitting in a room as an atheist depressed teenager, in tears, while one of the shittiest humans I've ever had the displeasure of meeting was on the other side, yelling at me to pray louder because she couldn't hear me, is an image that over fifteen years later I've been unable to shake. I've seen and heard too many other examples of exertion of undue influence over weak and impressionable minds, rationalized by an obligation to spread a gospel which is inherently unprovable, to believe that religion is used authentically to lead a value-driven discussion or life in most cases.
With that being said, as long as there's a willingness to invite debate on religion-founded statements and to treat religion the way I really believe you believe it (which is that there are good values that could be shared and discussed - and not that there are good voters who could be swayed), I'm cool with that. I really feel that sharing and discussing ways to improve ourselves is part of our obligation as a race that wishes to have more tomorrows, but it has to be dialogue and not (pun intended) set in stone.
look up the video of his appearance on real time with bill maher. maher asks him about his faith in a very condescending way imo. pete was graceful in how he not only handled it but answered the broader question.....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Re Mayor Pete - One thing about him which I really like is that he does not appear to be afraid to embrace his Christian faith. Several months ago, I brought up the point that the left needs to reclaim Jesus, and how progressive his teachings truly are. In this forum, the idea wasn't received particularly well (although everyone was very nice about it). So I'm going to bring it up again. It's both a moral and political mistake to cede the teachings of Jesus to the religious right. Here's a recent quote from Pete:
“We need to not be afraid to invoke arguments … on why Christian faith is going to point you in a progressive direction,” he recently told USA Today. He also questioned Donald Trump’s religious sincerity. “I’m reluctant to comment on another person’s faith,” Buttigieg said, “but I would say it is hard to look at this president’s actions and believe that they’re the actions of somebody who believes in God.”
I believe that a candidate can be true and open about their faith without it being a risk to putting the 10 Commandments on the courthouse steps or making laws based on the writings of Leviticus. Hearing Pete speak about this is definitely a mark in the "positive" column for me.
mrussel, I want to be careful not to offend, and want to start by admitting personal bias here, as I'm not a fan of religion. I went through religious day school when I was younger, and I still have anger and resentment for being forced to pray to a god I don't believe in, as some form of penance for not doing homework. Sitting in a room as an atheist depressed teenager, in tears, while one of the shittiest humans I've ever had the displeasure of meeting was on the other side, yelling at me to pray louder because she couldn't hear me, is an image that over fifteen years later I've been unable to shake. I've seen and heard too many other examples of exertion of undue influence over weak and impressionable minds, rationalized by an obligation to spread a gospel which is inherently unprovable, to believe that religion is used authentically to lead a value-driven discussion or life in most cases.
With that being said, as long as there's a willingness to invite debate on religion-founded statements and to treat religion the way I really believe you believe it (which is that there are good values that could be shared and discussed - and not that there are good voters who could be swayed), I'm cool with that. I really feel that sharing and discussing ways to improve ourselves is part of our obligation as a race that wishes to have more tomorrows, but it has to be dialogue and not (pun intended) set in stone.
look up the video of his appearance on real time with bill maher. maher asks him about his faith in a very condescending way imo. pete was graceful in how he not only handled it but answered the broader question.....
I've seen that and I fully agree! And regarding Maher - condescending is always his go-to tone.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Re Mayor Pete - One thing about him which I really like is that he does not appear to be afraid to embrace his Christian faith. Several months ago, I brought up the point that the left needs to reclaim Jesus, and how progressive his teachings truly are. In this forum, the idea wasn't received particularly well (although everyone was very nice about it). So I'm going to bring it up again. It's both a moral and political mistake to cede the teachings of Jesus to the religious right. Here's a recent quote from Pete:
“We need to not be afraid to invoke arguments … on why Christian faith is going to point you in a progressive direction,” he recently told USA Today. He also questioned Donald Trump’s religious sincerity. “I’m reluctant to comment on another person’s faith,” Buttigieg said, “but I would say it is hard to look at this president’s actions and believe that they’re the actions of somebody who believes in God.”
I believe that a candidate can be true and open about their faith without it being a risk to putting the 10 Commandments on the courthouse steps or making laws based on the writings of Leviticus. Hearing Pete speak about this is definitely a mark in the "positive" column for me.
mrussel, I want to be careful not to offend, and want to start by admitting personal bias here, as I'm not a fan of religion. I went through religious day school when I was younger, and I still have anger and resentment for being forced to pray to a god I don't believe in, as some form of penance for not doing homework. Sitting in a room as an atheist depressed teenager, in tears, while one of the shittiest humans I've ever had the displeasure of meeting was on the other side, yelling at me to pray louder because she couldn't hear me, is an image that over fifteen years later I've been unable to shake. I've seen and heard too many other examples of exertion of undue influence over weak and impressionable minds, rationalized by an obligation to spread a gospel which is inherently unprovable, to believe that religion is used authentically to lead a value-driven discussion or life in most cases.
With that being said, as long as there's a willingness to invite debate on religion-founded statements and to treat religion the way I really believe you believe it (which is that there are good values that could be shared and discussed - and not that there are good voters who could be swayed), I'm cool with that. I really feel that sharing and discussing ways to improve ourselves is part of our obligation as a race that wishes to have more tomorrows, but it has to be dialogue and not (pun intended) set in stone.
look up the video of his appearance on real time with bill maher. maher asks him about his faith in a very condescending way imo. pete was graceful in how he not only handled it but answered the broader question.....
He also said we are being far too condescending to those we disagree with and it's hurting us.... Andrew Sullivan repeated the same message 15 minutes later...... their message is simple, stop being condescending name-calling jerks to those we disagree with....
Bill Maher, and the rest of us on the left, need to take that advice to heart
It will be interesting to see if Pete can get any traction with the African American community. In particular, the older members tend to be much less liberal on gay marriage. I hope his faith can help bridge that gap, giving them a common language, but we shall see.
New poll conducted between 4/4 and 4/7 in MA. 1. Warren in third in her home state. Ouch. Doesn't bode well. 2. Sanders strong in the NE. No real surprise there. 3. Biden still hanging tough, considering this poll was conducted after the shenanigans of the last two weeks.
Beto comes off as a guy that reads a "What to say to Democrat Voters on (today's date)" handbook before any public speech. I have yet to perceive leadership qualities that I would want a POTUS to have.
Beto comes off as a guy that reads a "What to say to Democrat Voters on (today's date)" handbook before any public speech. I have yet to perceive leadership qualities that I would want a POTUS to have.
Agree.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Biden/Harris Biden/Abrams Biden/Sanders Biden/Some other woman Biden/Booker
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
Beto comes off as a guy that reads a "What to say to Democrat Voters on (today's date)" handbook before any public speech. I have yet to perceive leadership qualities that I would want a POTUS to have.
Also agree. I just read Pete Buttigieg's book and was very impressed - wow, to have a smart person as president. But can a gay man win (I say that wishing the answer was yes, of course)?
I asked my 21 year old daughter what she thought of the candidates - she likes Warren, but thinks she's too "out there." She used to like Bernie, but now thinks he's "crazy." She likes Kamala and Beto. And thinks Biden is "way too old."
Biden/Harris Biden/Abrams Biden/Sanders Biden/Some other woman Biden/Booker
Give up Biden.
Why? He won't surrender the rust belt, will select a minority VP, and the Obama's will hit the street hard for him....
He's still the best bet
Mayor Pete is catching fire with young progressives, he will quickly settle into the top 3-5 candidates... i like the guy, not sure i'm hitting the button in the primary for him though... i'm honestly a little worried about running a 37 year old homosexual small city mayor in this election, we cannot fuck around and risk 4 more years....
Biden/Harris Biden/Abrams Biden/Sanders Biden/Some other woman Biden/Booker
Give up Biden.
Why? He won't surrender the rust belt, will select a minority VP, and the Obama's will hit the street hard for him....
He's still the best bet
Mayor Pete is catching fire with young progressives, he will quickly settle into the top 3-5 candidates... i like the guy, not sure i'm hitting the button in the primary for him though... i'm honestly a little worried about running a 37 year old homosexual small city mayor in this election, we cannot fuck around and risk 4 more years....
You live in the Greatest Country in the World™ -- why would you have to worry about Trump being elected instead of a sane canditate like Pete?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Biden/Harris Biden/Abrams Biden/Sanders Biden/Some other woman Biden/Booker
Give up Biden.
Why? He won't surrender the rust belt, will select a minority VP, and the Obama's will hit the street hard for him....
He's still the best bet
Mayor Pete is catching fire with young progressives, he will quickly settle into the top 3-5 candidates... i like the guy, not sure i'm hitting the button in the primary for him though... i'm honestly a little worried about running a 37 year old homosexual small city mayor in this election, we cannot fuck around and risk 4 more years....
You live in the Greatest Country in the World™ -- why would you have to worry about Trump being elected instead of a sane canditate like Pete?
Because as Alexander Hamilton once said: "The masses are asses."
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Rep. Eric Swalwell of California joins crowded field of 2020 Democratic presidential hopefuls
The four-term congressman, who has been a frequent
guest on cable news programs as well as a visitor to Iowa over the past
couple of years, added his name to the long list of people vying for the
Democrats’ 2020 presidential nomination.
Swalwell, 38, formally announced the campaign during an appearance on CBS’s “Late Show with Stephen Colbert.” This is a developing story. It will be updated.
Biden/Harris Biden/Abrams Biden/Sanders Biden/Some other woman Biden/Booker
Give up Biden.
Why? He won't surrender the rust belt, will select a minority VP, and the Obama's will hit the street hard for him....
He's still the best bet
Mayor Pete is catching fire with young progressives, he will quickly settle into the top 3-5 candidates... i like the guy, not sure i'm hitting the button in the primary for him though... i'm honestly a little worried about running a 37 year old homosexual small city mayor in this election, we cannot fuck around and risk 4 more years....
You live in the Greatest Country in the World™ -- why would you have to worry about Trump being elected instead of a sane canditate like Pete?
Pretty sure you're the only one who regularly calls it that (even in satire).
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Comments
Purim: Haman was trying to kill us, he failed, let's eat and drink
Passover: Pharaoh was enslaving us, we got away, let's eat and drink
Channukah: The temple was destroyed, we've got a new one but only enough oil for one day - lasted eight - let's eat and drink
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/is-pete-buttigieg-a-transformational-candidate.html
Purim Jam
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Bill Maher, and the rest of us on the left, need to take that advice to heart
1. Warren in third in her home state. Ouch. Doesn't bode well.
2. Sanders strong in the NE. No real surprise there.
3. Biden still hanging tough, considering this poll was conducted after the shenanigans of the last two weeks.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/437770-warren-places-third-in-2020-poll-of-massachusetts
Biden/Abrams
Biden/Sanders
Biden/Some other woman
Biden/Booker
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
I asked my 21 year old daughter what she thought of the candidates - she likes Warren, but thinks she's too "out there." She used to like Bernie, but now thinks he's "crazy." She likes Kamala and Beto. And thinks Biden is "way too old."
He's still the best bet
Mayor Pete is catching fire with young progressives, he will quickly settle into the top 3-5 candidates... i like the guy, not sure i'm hitting the button in the primary for him though... i'm honestly a little worried about running a 37 year old homosexual small city mayor in this election, we cannot fuck around and risk 4 more years....
Rep. Eric Swalwell of California joins crowded field of 2020 Democratic presidential hopefuls
The four-term congressman, who has been a frequent guest on cable news programs as well as a visitor to Iowa over the past couple of years, added his name to the long list of people vying for the Democrats’ 2020 presidential nomination.
Swalwell, 38, formally announced the campaign during an appearance on CBS’s “Late Show with Stephen Colbert.”
This is a developing story. It will be updated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2019/04/08/rep-eric-swalwell-of-california-joins-crowded-field-of-2020-democratic-presidential-hopefuls/?utm_term=.3a0d5b5cf6d5&wpisrc=al_politics__alert-politics&wpmk=1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1