The Democratic Candidates

cincybearcat

benjs said: We all have red blood after all, and we should show that.

We should show that we all have red blood? That’s kinda sick!

benjs

mrussel1 said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

I was brought up in a horrible Catholic environment as well.  Nuns locked kids in lockers, threw erasers, we were punished unfairly, etc.  I had to go to church 4x a week, 3 of them for school.  The redeeming factor is that church wine is quite delicious and the priests had no inventory control mechanism.  
So to be clear, I'm not espousing organized religion.  I'm saying it's a political and moral mistake not to use the teachings of Jesus, and the social values around the poor, indigent, the strangers in our land, and the command to stand humbly before God and man.  When Democrats hand that over to the Republicans, we lose a strong moral high ground while this administration literally shits on it.  

That's what I thought you were saying, and I agree there. As long as this is kept as value-driven discussions, I see no problem with talking about how religious texts agree with those values that are core to the society we want to perpetuate and providing examples of that.
As for wine - that's key in Judaism as well. We actually have a holiday where Jews are commanded to get drunk enough that they can't tell right from wrong. 

The Jews celebrate the purge?  Crazy!  

Not sure what the purge is! This is Purim (one of several Jewish holidays centered around _________ was trying to ________ us and failed, so let's celebrate with food and drink). 
Purim: Haman was trying to kill us, he failed, let's eat and drink
Passover: Pharaoh was enslaving us, we got away, let's eat and drink
Channukah: The temple was destroyed, we've got a new one but only enough oil for one day - lasted eight - let's eat and drink

benjs

cincybearcat said:

benjs said: We all have red blood after all, and we should show that.

We should show that we all have red blood? That’s kinda sick!

Smart-ass  

cincybearcat

benjs said:

cincybearcat said:

benjs said: We all have red blood after all, and we should show that.

We should show that we all have red blood? That’s kinda sick!

Smart-ass  

I’ll add that to the list .... idiotic, dick, sexist...smart-ass!!!!

mrussel1

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

I was brought up in a horrible Catholic environment as well.  Nuns locked kids in lockers, threw erasers, we were punished unfairly, etc.  I had to go to church 4x a week, 3 of them for school.  The redeeming factor is that church wine is quite delicious and the priests had no inventory control mechanism.  
So to be clear, I'm not espousing organized religion.  I'm saying it's a political and moral mistake not to use the teachings of Jesus, and the social values around the poor, indigent, the strangers in our land, and the command to stand humbly before God and man.  When Democrats hand that over to the Republicans, we lose a strong moral high ground while this administration literally shits on it.  

That's what I thought you were saying, and I agree there. As long as this is kept as value-driven discussions, I see no problem with talking about how religious texts agree with those values that are core to the society we want to perpetuate and providing examples of that.
As for wine - that's key in Judaism as well. We actually have a holiday where Jews are commanded to get drunk enough that they can't tell right from wrong. 

The Jews celebrate the purge?  Crazy!  

Not sure what the purge is! This is Purim (one of several Jewish holidays centered around _________ was trying to ________ us and failed, so let's celebrate with food and drink). 
Purim: Haman was trying to kill us, he failed, let's eat and drink
Passover: Pharaoh was enslaving us, we got away, let's eat and drink
Channukah: The temple was destroyed, we've got a new one but only enough oil for one day - lasted eight - let's eat and drink

Sounds like a pretty good religion, except for all the escapes from certain death.  

benjs

cincybearcat said:

benjs said:

cincybearcat said:

benjs said: We all have red blood after all, and we should show that.

We should show that we all have red blood? That’s kinda sick!

Smart-ass  

I’ll add that to the list .... idiotic, dick, sexist...smart-ass!!!!

Hey, leave me out of those other ones! 

benjs

mrussel1 said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

I was brought up in a horrible Catholic environment as well.  Nuns locked kids in lockers, threw erasers, we were punished unfairly, etc.  I had to go to church 4x a week, 3 of them for school.  The redeeming factor is that church wine is quite delicious and the priests had no inventory control mechanism.  
So to be clear, I'm not espousing organized religion.  I'm saying it's a political and moral mistake not to use the teachings of Jesus, and the social values around the poor, indigent, the strangers in our land, and the command to stand humbly before God and man.  When Democrats hand that over to the Republicans, we lose a strong moral high ground while this administration literally shits on it.  

That's what I thought you were saying, and I agree there. As long as this is kept as value-driven discussions, I see no problem with talking about how religious texts agree with those values that are core to the society we want to perpetuate and providing examples of that.
As for wine - that's key in Judaism as well. We actually have a holiday where Jews are commanded to get drunk enough that they can't tell right from wrong. 

The Jews celebrate the purge?  Crazy!  

Not sure what the purge is! This is Purim (one of several Jewish holidays centered around _________ was trying to ________ us and failed, so let's celebrate with food and drink). 
Purim: Haman was trying to kill us, he failed, let's eat and drink
Passover: Pharaoh was enslaving us, we got away, let's eat and drink
Channukah: The temple was destroyed, we've got a new one but only enough oil for one day - lasted eight - let's eat and drink

Sounds like a pretty good religion, except for all the escapes from certain death.  

It's good for family togetherness. And for if you want to claim elitist status or rationalize murder or oppression through that status. 

cincybearcat

benjs said:

cincybearcat said:

benjs said:

cincybearcat said:

benjs said: We all have red blood after all, and we should show that.

We should show that we all have red blood? That’s kinda sick!

Smart-ass  

I’ll add that to the list .... idiotic, dick, sexist...smart-ass!!!!

Hey, leave me out of those other ones! 

mrussel1

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

I was brought up in a horrible Catholic environment as well.  Nuns locked kids in lockers, threw erasers, we were punished unfairly, etc.  I had to go to church 4x a week, 3 of them for school.  The redeeming factor is that church wine is quite delicious and the priests had no inventory control mechanism.  
So to be clear, I'm not espousing organized religion.  I'm saying it's a political and moral mistake not to use the teachings of Jesus, and the social values around the poor, indigent, the strangers in our land, and the command to stand humbly before God and man.  When Democrats hand that over to the Republicans, we lose a strong moral high ground while this administration literally shits on it.  

That's what I thought you were saying, and I agree there. As long as this is kept as value-driven discussions, I see no problem with talking about how religious texts agree with those values that are core to the society we want to perpetuate and providing examples of that.
As for wine - that's key in Judaism as well. We actually have a holiday where Jews are commanded to get drunk enough that they can't tell right from wrong. 

The Jews celebrate the purge?  Crazy!  

Not sure what the purge is! This is Purim (one of several Jewish holidays centered around _________ was trying to ________ us and failed, so let's celebrate with food and drink). 
Purim: Haman was trying to kill us, he failed, let's eat and drink
Passover: Pharaoh was enslaving us, we got away, let's eat and drink
Channukah: The temple was destroyed, we've got a new one but only enough oil for one day - lasted eight - let's eat and drink

Sounds like a pretty good religion, except for all the escapes from certain death.  

It's good for family togetherness. And for if you want to claim elitist status or rationalize murder or oppression through that status. 

It's the American dream. 

mrussel1

Here's a nice analysis of Mayor Pete by a conservative, and a gay one at that, the very thoughtful Andrew Sullivan.  I don't think we should discount his take on the immigration issue.  
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/is-pete-buttigieg-a-transformational-candidate.html

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

He likes using the word troll a lot today it seems. 

I learned troll yesterday, you learned echo chamber.  We're even.  
On a slightly different note, I do apologize for calling you a dick yesterday.  I went too far.  My bad.  I still think your comment to PJ Soul was dickish though, but that does not necessarily make you an actual phallus..maybe a taint?  Kidding.  

Thanks for asking the question mrussel1! Even though we never got an answer.

Lerxst1992

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

I was brought up in a horrible Catholic environment as well.  Nuns locked kids in lockers, threw erasers, we were punished unfairly, etc.  I had to go to church 4x a week, 3 of them for school.  The redeeming factor is that church wine is quite delicious and the priests had no inventory control mechanism.  
So to be clear, I'm not espousing organized religion.  I'm saying it's a political and moral mistake not to use the teachings of Jesus, and the social values around the poor, indigent, the strangers in our land, and the command to stand humbly before God and man.  When Democrats hand that over to the Republicans, we lose a strong moral high ground while this administration literally shits on it.  

That's what I thought you were saying, and I agree there. As long as this is kept as value-driven discussions, I see no problem with talking about how religious texts agree with those values that are core to the society we want to perpetuate and providing examples of that.
As for wine - that's key in Judaism as well. We actually have a holiday where Jews are commanded to get drunk enough that they can't tell right from wrong. 

The Jews celebrate the purge?  Crazy!  

Not sure what the purge is! This is Purim (one of several Jewish holidays centered around _________ was trying to ________ us and failed, so let's celebrate with food and drink). 
Purim: Haman was trying to kill us, he failed, let's eat and drink
Passover: Pharaoh was enslaving us, we got away, let's eat and drink
Channukah: The temple was destroyed, we've got a new one but only enough oil for one day - lasted eight - let's eat and drink

Purim Jam

mickeyrat

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

Re Mayor Pete - One thing about him which I really like is that he does not appear to be afraid to embrace his Christian faith.  Several months ago, I brought up the point that the left needs to reclaim Jesus, and how progressive his teachings truly are.  In this forum, the idea wasn't received particularly well (although everyone was very nice about it).  So I'm going to bring it up again.  It's both a moral and political mistake to cede the teachings of Jesus to the religious right.  Here's a recent quote from Pete:

“We need to not be afraid to invoke arguments … on why Christian faith is going to point you in a progressive direction,” he recently told USA Today. He also questioned Donald Trump’s religious sincerity. “I’m reluctant to comment on another person’s faith,” Buttigieg said, “but I would say it is hard to look at this president’s actions and believe that they’re the actions of somebody who believes in God.”

I believe that a candidate can be true and open about their faith without it being a risk to putting the 10 Commandments on the courthouse steps or making laws based on the writings of Leviticus.  Hearing Pete speak about this is definitely a mark in the "positive" column for me. 

mrussel, I want to be careful not to offend, and want to start by admitting personal bias here, as I'm not a fan of religion. I went through religious day school when I was younger, and I still have anger and resentment for being forced to pray to a god I don't believe in, as some form of penance for not doing homework. Sitting in a room as an atheist depressed teenager, in tears, while one of the shittiest humans I've ever had the displeasure of meeting was on the other side, yelling at me to pray louder because she couldn't hear me, is an image that over fifteen years later I've been unable to shake. I've seen and heard too many other examples of exertion of undue influence over weak and impressionable minds, rationalized by an obligation to spread a gospel which is inherently unprovable, to believe that religion is used authentically to lead a value-driven discussion or life in most cases. 

With that being said, as long as there's a willingness to invite debate on religion-founded statements and to treat religion the way I really believe you believe it (which is that there are good values that could be shared and discussed - and not that there are good voters who could be swayed), I'm cool with that. I really feel that sharing and discussing ways to improve ourselves is part of our obligation as a race that wishes to have more tomorrows, but it has to be dialogue and not (pun intended) set in stone.

look up the video of his appearance on real time with bill maher. maher asks him about his faith in a very condescending way imo. pete was graceful in how he not only handled it but answered the broader question.....

benjs

mickeyrat said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

Re Mayor Pete - One thing about him which I really like is that he does not appear to be afraid to embrace his Christian faith.  Several months ago, I brought up the point that the left needs to reclaim Jesus, and how progressive his teachings truly are.  In this forum, the idea wasn't received particularly well (although everyone was very nice about it).  So I'm going to bring it up again.  It's both a moral and political mistake to cede the teachings of Jesus to the religious right.  Here's a recent quote from Pete:

“We need to not be afraid to invoke arguments … on why Christian faith is going to point you in a progressive direction,” he recently told USA Today. He also questioned Donald Trump’s religious sincerity. “I’m reluctant to comment on another person’s faith,” Buttigieg said, “but I would say it is hard to look at this president’s actions and believe that they’re the actions of somebody who believes in God.”

I believe that a candidate can be true and open about their faith without it being a risk to putting the 10 Commandments on the courthouse steps or making laws based on the writings of Leviticus.  Hearing Pete speak about this is definitely a mark in the "positive" column for me. 

mrussel, I want to be careful not to offend, and want to start by admitting personal bias here, as I'm not a fan of religion. I went through religious day school when I was younger, and I still have anger and resentment for being forced to pray to a god I don't believe in, as some form of penance for not doing homework. Sitting in a room as an atheist depressed teenager, in tears, while one of the shittiest humans I've ever had the displeasure of meeting was on the other side, yelling at me to pray louder because she couldn't hear me, is an image that over fifteen years later I've been unable to shake. I've seen and heard too many other examples of exertion of undue influence over weak and impressionable minds, rationalized by an obligation to spread a gospel which is inherently unprovable, to believe that religion is used authentically to lead a value-driven discussion or life in most cases. 

With that being said, as long as there's a willingness to invite debate on religion-founded statements and to treat religion the way I really believe you believe it (which is that there are good values that could be shared and discussed - and not that there are good voters who could be swayed), I'm cool with that. I really feel that sharing and discussing ways to improve ourselves is part of our obligation as a race that wishes to have more tomorrows, but it has to be dialogue and not (pun intended) set in stone.

look up the video of his appearance on real time with bill maher. maher asks him about his faith in a very condescending way imo. pete was graceful in how he not only handled it but answered the broader question.....

I've seen that and I fully agree! And regarding Maher - condescending is always his go-to tone.

my2hands

mickeyrat said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

Re Mayor Pete - One thing about him which I really like is that he does not appear to be afraid to embrace his Christian faith.  Several months ago, I brought up the point that the left needs to reclaim Jesus, and how progressive his teachings truly are.  In this forum, the idea wasn't received particularly well (although everyone was very nice about it).  So I'm going to bring it up again.  It's both a moral and political mistake to cede the teachings of Jesus to the religious right.  Here's a recent quote from Pete:

“We need to not be afraid to invoke arguments … on why Christian faith is going to point you in a progressive direction,” he recently told USA Today. He also questioned Donald Trump’s religious sincerity. “I’m reluctant to comment on another person’s faith,” Buttigieg said, “but I would say it is hard to look at this president’s actions and believe that they’re the actions of somebody who believes in God.”

I believe that a candidate can be true and open about their faith without it being a risk to putting the 10 Commandments on the courthouse steps or making laws based on the writings of Leviticus.  Hearing Pete speak about this is definitely a mark in the "positive" column for me. 

mrussel, I want to be careful not to offend, and want to start by admitting personal bias here, as I'm not a fan of religion. I went through religious day school when I was younger, and I still have anger and resentment for being forced to pray to a god I don't believe in, as some form of penance for not doing homework. Sitting in a room as an atheist depressed teenager, in tears, while one of the shittiest humans I've ever had the displeasure of meeting was on the other side, yelling at me to pray louder because she couldn't hear me, is an image that over fifteen years later I've been unable to shake. I've seen and heard too many other examples of exertion of undue influence over weak and impressionable minds, rationalized by an obligation to spread a gospel which is inherently unprovable, to believe that religion is used authentically to lead a value-driven discussion or life in most cases. 

With that being said, as long as there's a willingness to invite debate on religion-founded statements and to treat religion the way I really believe you believe it (which is that there are good values that could be shared and discussed - and not that there are good voters who could be swayed), I'm cool with that. I really feel that sharing and discussing ways to improve ourselves is part of our obligation as a race that wishes to have more tomorrows, but it has to be dialogue and not (pun intended) set in stone.

look up the video of his appearance on real time with bill maher. maher asks him about his faith in a very condescending way imo. pete was graceful in how he not only handled it but answered the broader question.....

He also said we are being far too condescending to those we disagree with and it's hurting us.... Andrew Sullivan repeated the same message 15 minutes later...... their message is simple, stop being condescending name-calling jerks to those we disagree with.... 

Bill Maher, and the rest of us on the left, need to take that advice to heart

mrussel1

It will be interesting to see if Pete can get any traction with the African American community.  In particular, the older members tend to be much less liberal on gay marriage. I hope his faith can help bridge that gap, giving them a common language, but we shall see. 

mrussel1

New poll conducted between 4/4 and 4/7 in MA.  
1. Warren in third in her home state.  Ouch.  Doesn't bode well.  
2. Sanders strong in the NE.  No real surprise there.  
3. Biden still hanging tough, considering this poll was conducted after the shenanigans of the last two weeks.  

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/437770-warren-places-third-in-2020-poll-of-massachusetts

mrussel1

Oh and Pete still growing as people become aware.  He will have to be reckoned with.  

Spiritual_Chaos

mrussel1 said:

Oh and Pete still growing as people become aware.  He will have to be reckoned with.  

I sure hope so. Sounds genuine and up-to-date.

Jason P

Beto comes off as a guy that reads a "What to say to Democrat Voters on (today's date)" handbook before any public speech.  I have yet to perceive leadership qualities that I would want a POTUS to have.