Leaving Neverland

mvw · March 2019

He was a smooth criminal...

F Me In The Brain · March 2019

Fuck this guy. I hope the few remaining people who continue to defend him will just be silent now. Creepy mofo.
Child predators should all die a slow and painful death.

njnancy · March 2019

I watched all 4 hours and then the 'After Neverland' special on OWN.

I absolutely believe both of them. They are so honest about their experience and still are conflicted about betraying MJ though they are in their 40's.

It really isn't about MJ so much as it shows how a pedophile grooms and manipulates children so that they become loyal to him (or her) and don't think that anything bad ever happened to them. The break seemed to happen when they had children, they spiraled when they saw their male children in the same position that they were in.

All abusers use the same manipulation tactics but to do it to a child is especially heinous. The sexual part of it is horrendous, but what has caused the most harm to them is they had their entire view of the world and emotions shaped by MJ. The show is done in such a precise way as to clearly lay out how the grooming and loyalty and isolation is done. To the families also. These guys were speaking from the deepest parts of their souls and are struggling to this day.

I think that Culkin was no different than the rest, he just has decided to keep it locked up. He got weird and kinda disappeared from view. Who knows what pain he may be in. MJ was such an icon that Culkin's success wouldn't have made a difference. The marriages were used to deflect away from what he was doing and I think he had kids so that he wouldn't be alone. I can't help but wonder if he sexually abused them.

It was not sensationalized but it was intense, emotional and informative. I really hope the guys are able to heal - one seems to be further along than the other. But they have a long way to go. That is so sad.

It was really well done IMO.

MayDay10 · March 2019

Watched about 50% of it tonight.

Completely believe the accusers. Reminds me a lot of the tactics used by mel hall in a recent article i read.

njnancy · March 2019

MayDay10 said:

Watched about 50% of it tonight.

Completely believe the accusers. Reminds me a lot of the tactics used by mel hall in a recent article i read.

Was it in SB Nation? I googled him (didn't know he was a ball player) and I'm into the 3rd chapter of this article - exactly the same tactics - you are so right.

Spiritual_Chaos · March 2019

Gern Blansten said:

curmudgeoness said:

I'm not sure why this is making waves now, when it's all been out there forever and nobody cared. Then again, stories about Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were out there forever, and people kept looking the other way, so --

Too many people are willing to look away if the accused is famous enough, powerful enough, puts enough butts in seats. So, no, I'm not watching because I know it will just make me angry.

I'm not sure that we heard from the victims as directly as this....I could be wrong.

Interesting that Mac Culkin still denies any sexual assault. My guess is that he just doesn't want to admit it.

What's interesting? Maybe it's just this easy: Mac Culkin denies any sexual assault because he was never a victim of sexual assault.

MayDay10 · March 2019

njnancy said:

MayDay10 said:

Watched about 50% of it tonight.

Completely believe the accusers. Reminds me a lot of the tactics used by mel hall in a recent article i read.

Was it in SB Nation? I googled him (didn't know he was a ball player) and I'm into the 3rd chapter of this article - exactly the same tactics - you are so right.

Yeah, thats the one. I read it a few weeks ago

Jason P · March 2019

What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence. But if you can dance and sing ....

F Me In The Brain · March 2019

Jason P said:

What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence. But if you can dance and sing ....

Agree.

Everything about this just pisses me off. I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper. The person I was with, a client, was a fan. Yuck.

Ledbetterman10 · March 2019

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Anyone watching this? Pretty amazing stuff.

Do you believe any of it?

I sure do. Why wouldn't you? We've known for like 20 years that Jackson was likely a child molester. And these guys have enough proof of being with Jackson on stage, backstage, and at his ranch. Hell, they even have faxes and video birthday wish videos (or "congratulations" videos as Jackson says in it that he doesn't believe in birthdays). Also, it was produced by Oprah, who I doubt would sensationalize the story and make the "beloved" Michael Jackson look worse in death than he looked in life (which was already pretty damn bad) if she didn't believe the victims.

Watching this, I can't believe people back in the 90's weren't worried when they saw a 33-year-old man walking around holding hands with 9-year-old boys. Maybe people were trying not to be cynical and just thought "No way Michael Jackson would be molesting that kid." I'm not a fan of how cynical our society has become, but nowadays, the moment he was seen holding a boy's hand, he'd be the subject of ridicule and criticism, and that would have been a good thing.

Spiritual_Chaos · March 2019

F Me In The Brain said:

Jason P said:

What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence. But if you can dance and sing ....

Agree.
Everything about this just pisses me off. I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper. The person I was with, a client, was a fan. Yuck.

What has the client being fan to do with this story?

F Me In The Brain · March 2019

Spiritual_Chaos said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Jason P said:

What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence. But if you can dance and sing ....

Agree.
Everything about this just pisses me off. I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper. The person I was with, a client, was a fan. Yuck.

What has the client being fan to do with this story?

That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast. Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.

Spiritual_Chaos · March 2019

F Me In The Brain said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Jason P said:

What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence. But if you can dance and sing ....

Agree.
Everything about this just pisses me off. I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper. The person I was with, a client, was a fan. Yuck.

What has the client being fan to do with this story?

That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast. Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.

I don't think he in the minds of people, and people who listened to him, has been "an obvious pederast".

But okey. Now I understand.

I hope she can find peace.

Meltdown99 · March 2019

There is nothing good about Micheal Jackson. Hopefully, the trend of radio stations not playing his music continues, now music stores and digital music services need to remove this predators crap. Essentially, everything Jackson needs to be boycotted.

F Me In The Brain · March 2019

Spiritual_Chaos said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Jason P said:

What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence. But if you can dance and sing ....

Agree.
Everything about this just pisses me off. I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper. The person I was with, a client, was a fan. Yuck.

What has the client being fan to do with this story?

That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast. Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.

I don't think he in the minds of people, and people who listened to him, has been "an obvious pederast".

But okey. Now I understand.

I hope she can find peace.

She was aware of accusations. It is my opinion (and only that) that this was a situation where he was obviously up to no good with these kids. As Howard Stern put it....if the guy loves kids so much, where are the little girls?

I do understand that others did not see this as being obvious.

Spiritual_Chaos · March 2019

F Me In The Brain said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Jason P said:

What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence. But if you can dance and sing ....

Agree.
Everything about this just pisses me off. I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper. The person I was with, a client, was a fan. Yuck.

What has the client being fan to do with this story?

That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast. Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.

I don't think he in the minds of people, and people who listened to him, has been "an obvious pederast".

But okey. Now I understand.

I hope she can find peace.

She was aware of accusations. It is my opinion (and only that) that this was a situation where he was obviously up to no good with these kids. As Howard Stern put it....if the guy loves kids so much, where are the little girls?
I do understand that others did not see this as being obvious.

Haha. Can hear that in Sterns voice.

Okey. To me and other people I know it was a huge story and everyone was aware of the accusations - He was freed and there were shady people using their kids to get money from him. I would say that was as an obvious "truth" as him being a "pederast". And with someone being freed and releasing great songs like Stranger in Moscow, life moves on.

Obviously we didn't have Stern airing over here though.

"Where are they? The girls. Only boys and MJ in a bedroom. Girls wanna hang too"

Gern Blansten · March 2019

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Gern Blansten said:

curmudgeoness said:

I'm not sure why this is making waves now, when it's all been out there forever and nobody cared. Then again, stories about Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were out there forever, and people kept looking the other way, so --

Too many people are willing to look away if the accused is famous enough, powerful enough, puts enough butts in seats. So, no, I'm not watching because I know it will just make me angry.

I'm not sure that we heard from the victims as directly as this....I could be wrong.

Interesting that Mac Culkin still denies any sexual assault. My guess is that he just doesn't want to admit it.

What's interesting? Maybe it's just this easy: Mac Culkin denies any sexual assault because he was never a victim of sexual assault.

Possibly...As someone else mentioned, it is possible that MJ "friended" celebrities like Culkin and Cory Feldman and didn't molest them...knowing that they could be his "proof" that he might later need.

Or....he did molest them and they just don't want to admit it.

Gern Blansten · March 2019

Ledbetterman10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Anyone watching this? Pretty amazing stuff.

Do you believe any of it?

I sure do. Why wouldn't you? We've known for like 20 years that Jackson was likely a child molester. And these guys have enough proof of being with Jackson on stage, backstage, and at his ranch. Hell, they even have faxes and video birthday wish videos (or "congratulations" videos as Jackson says in it that he doesn't believe in birthdays). Also, it was produced by Oprah, who I doubt would sensationalize the story and make the "beloved" Michael Jackson look worse in death than he looked in life (which was already pretty damn bad) if she didn't believe the victims.

Watching this, I can't believe people back in the 90's weren't worried when they saw a 33-year-old man walking around holding hands with 9-year-old boys. Maybe people were trying not to be cynical and just thought "No way Michael Jackson would be molesting that kid." I'm not a fan of how cynical our society has become, but nowadays, the moment he was seen holding a boy's hand, he'd be the subject of ridicule and criticism, and that would have been a good thing.

I think they did. It's like the R Kelly stuff....he's been accused of abusing women for years and it just finally came down on him.

When MJ was first sued the shit hit the fan.

Spiritual_Chaos · March 2019

Gern Blansten said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Gern Blansten said:

curmudgeoness said:

I'm not sure why this is making waves now, when it's all been out there forever and nobody cared. Then again, stories about Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were out there forever, and people kept looking the other way, so --

Too many people are willing to look away if the accused is famous enough, powerful enough, puts enough butts in seats. So, no, I'm not watching because I know it will just make me angry.

I'm not sure that we heard from the victims as directly as this....I could be wrong.

Interesting that Mac Culkin still denies any sexual assault. My guess is that he just doesn't want to admit it.

What's interesting? Maybe it's just this easy: Mac Culkin denies any sexual assault because he was never a victim of sexual assault.

Possibly...As someone else mentioned, it is possible that MJ "friended" celebrities like Culkin and Cory Feldman and didn't molest them...knowing that they could be his "proof" that he might later need.

Or....he did molest them and they just don't want to admit it.

Or he didn't molest them because they were well known people and not dependent on him like other unknown kids.

Or he didn't molest them because he just didn't. Did Harvey Weinstein flash every actress in Hollywood?

Gern Blansten · March 2019

I'm curious if this documentary will cause others to come forward.

Leaving Neverland

Comments

Categories