Leaving Neverland

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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    The After Neverland interview is up on youtube.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,546
    The After Neverland interview is up on youtube.
    Thanks SC. I hope you get to see the actual doc soon - puts the interview in much more context. You said the 10th I believe. 

    Thanks for the YT news though.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    edited March 7
    njnancy said:
    The After Neverland interview is up on youtube.
    Thanks SC. I hope you get to see the actual doc soon - puts the interview in much more context. You said the 10th I believe. 

    Thanks for the YT news though.
    9th, part 1
    10th, part 2

    On Swedish television. And I guess them airing it is the reason the HBO Nordic app hasn't made the doc available yet.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    Listening to the 2011 trial against michael jacksons doctor now. I'm hooked.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    Listened to all of these 78 minutes... and man... the lawyer comes of as really dumb


    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,841
    'The Simpsons' producers pull classic Michael Jackson episode following abuse claims
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/the-simpsons-producers-pull-classic-michael-jackson-episode-following-abuse-claims-1.4327870?fbclid=IwAR1pMvNsMkJXh1VgG50oBp2X9R3Xz3a17pxID36_DvVVqiP2O0PsCEpWwYQ

    It took an HBO special before many more people realized what many of us already knew, that wacko jacko was a sicko...
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,849
    That's stupid. I hate the idea of any past material being pulled from anywhere in cases like this. It's way too subjective. I think it has to be an all or nothing thing, which of course leaves nothing as the only reasonable option.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 18,060
    Did this documentary interview any of the people that lied about abuse?

    I remember a string of people coming forward and they had all proven to be lying about the whole thing.

    Just curious.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,658
    I struggle to think that anyone would concoct such elaborate and humiliating descriptions of abuse and tear their families apart just on the chance that they might make some money out of it.  The big picture here is pretty clear - Michael Jackson liked sharing his bed with young boys, not young girls, young boys.  That in itself indicates a preference.  Given the experiences these two men are claiming, I think their explanations as to why they initially lied and helped cover up his crimes, are far more plausible than the idea of him being a man-child who innocently enjoyed the company of young boys.

    I think more victims will come forward, much the same as the Jimmy Saville case.
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 13,442

    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,546
    edited March 8
    Did this documentary interview any of the people that lied about abuse?

    I remember a string of people coming forward and they had all proven to be lying about the whole thing.

    Just curious.
    Both of the guys that the documentary is about lied in court about abuse. One guy did it at both trials - when he was 11 and 22 - he told his family not to when he was 22 but when he denied abuse to his mother, she told him he had to help MJ, as did the entire family. The other guy testified at the first trial when he was about 14 but refused to at the second and told his mother Micheal is an evil man but wouldn't get help or admit anything, just said enough to keep them out of the trial.


    Both guys crossed paths with each either in MJ's world a couple of times, but he only had one 'special' friend at a time. 

    If you mean people who lied about MJ abusing them, I don't know of anyone who did that.   They say that the two boys that had accused MJ were telling the truth but they were not able to even acknowledge that what happened to them was abuse because they did not feel like they were harmed. They were also extensively coached from the beginning on never speaking about the sexual stuff. I don't say alleged because I believe them. 

    Post edited by njnancy on
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    Its: 01:12 here in Sweden and Swedish television releases the documentary in 48 minutes for streaming! 

    Go to sleep or stay up.... hmm..
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 16,235
    What about Jackson 5 music or to a lesser extent Rockwell's Somebody's Watching Me?
    I miss igotid88
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316

    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,841
    It took this documentary for people to realize the sicko, was indeed a twisted POS who never got the full brunt of Justice.  Me and my buddies new something were odd with him in the 80's really, really odd.  I am just glad that I will likely never accidentally hear his garbage music again, and that I never spent 1 penny on anything Jackson.  Sick fuckers like that don't deserve riches.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    Me and my buddies new something were odd with him in the 80's really, really odd. 
    Please elaborate. 
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 17,714
    PJ_Soul said:
    That's stupid. I hate the idea of any past material being pulled from anywhere in cases like this. It's way too subjective. I think it has to be an all or nothing thing, which of course leaves nothing as the only reasonable option.
    I agree. 
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,898
    PJ_Soul said:
    That's stupid. I hate the idea of any past material being pulled from anywhere in cases like this. It's way too subjective. I think it has to be an all or nothing thing, which of course leaves nothing as the only reasonable option.
    It’s an interesting situation, because throughout history there has been a lot of great art created by a lot of questionable people. Do we now feel we have to get rid of it all? And if not all, how far back? Just from our century? Just artists who are still alive? Everyone?? Picasso, Gaugin, Caravaggio? Norman Mailer, Ben Johnson, William Golding - all did terrible things, and that’s not even counting more garden variety terrible behaviour like racism and anti-Semitism. 

    I tend to agree with you - only all or nothing makes sense, so it has to be nothing, society-wise. Individual people are free to make their own individual choices of course.  
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    edited March 9
    PJ_Soul said:
    That's stupid. I hate the idea of any past material being pulled from anywhere in cases like this. It's way too subjective. I think it has to be an all or nothing thing, which of course leaves nothing as the only reasonable option.
    It’s an interesting situation, because throughout history there has been a lot of great art created by a lot of questionable people. Do we now feel we have to get rid of it all? And if not all, how far back? Just from our century? Just artists who are still alive? Everyone?? Picasso, Gaugin, Caravaggio? Norman Mailer, Ben Johnson, William Golding - all did terrible things, and that’s not even counting more garden variety terrible behaviour like racism and anti-Semitism. 

    I tend to agree with you - only all or nothing makes sense, so it has to be nothing, society-wise. Individual people are free to make their own individual choices of course.  
    I don't crank an album by Picasso (as an example) while I do my dishes or in the car going to work.

    I would not mind there being a Michael Jackson exhibit somewhere. But there is a difference between that an putting on Billie Jean on a party (if you believe MJ did what is being said). There is a difference between being a big part of our history and culture, and being all "I love singing along to this child molester!!"
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,546
    igotid88 said:
    What about Jackson 5 music or to a lesser extent Rockwell's Somebody's Watching Me?
    I love the Jackson 5. I see them as a separate entity. 

    Music didn't molest kids, a person did. 


  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    njnancy said:
    igotid88 said:
    What about Jackson 5 music or to a lesser extent Rockwell's Somebody's Watching Me?
    I love the Jackson 5. I see them as a separate entity. 

    Music didn't molest kids, a person did. 


    So you can still wear a Michael Jackson dangerous tour tshirt then when you go out and about?
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 16,004
    I would laugh if I saw that!
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,841
    Me and my buddies new something were odd with him in the 80's really, really odd. 
    Please elaborate. 
    Well for starters buying a ranch and naming it neverland should have been some people's clue that this fucking freak was odd.  Sorry Adults don't buy ranches and then start gearing them towards children (especially others children)...unless...The guy was freak, I hope now that this documentary is out and people come forward and sue and bankrupt the Jackson estate.  I am especially glad some in the radio community is showing decency and removing him from the rotation.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    edited March 10
    Watching now. 

    Hard to not trust the two guys.

    Weird seeing the photos of Michael with the families and stuff. He's so iconic it looks like it's photoshopped. 

    It's also a journey of Michaels nose changing.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    edited March 10
    Watched it now. 

    If something happened to Feldman and McCaulkin (be it an one time advance that was rejected and never tried again, or a series events of abuse) I could see them staying quiet with them being friends with Michael and having an image of "he didn't hurt me / it wasn't abuse etc" -- just like Wade and Jimmy felt for a long time. I can see that. 
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    Burning up that thriller jacket is a bridge to far.



    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • HarrycatHarrycat UKPosts: 39
    It wasn't the original Thriller jacket apparently. It was a custom one given to Robson that he used to perform in.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,849
    edited March 11
    PJ_Soul said:
    That's stupid. I hate the idea of any past material being pulled from anywhere in cases like this. It's way too subjective. I think it has to be an all or nothing thing, which of course leaves nothing as the only reasonable option.
    It’s an interesting situation, because throughout history there has been a lot of great art created by a lot of questionable people. Do we now feel we have to get rid of it all? And if not all, how far back? Just from our century? Just artists who are still alive? Everyone?? Picasso, Gaugin, Caravaggio? Norman Mailer, Ben Johnson, William Golding - all did terrible things, and that’s not even counting more garden variety terrible behaviour like racism and anti-Semitism. 

    I tend to agree with you - only all or nothing makes sense, so it has to be nothing, society-wise. Individual people are free to make their own individual choices of course.  
    I don't crank an album by Picasso (as an example) while I do my dishes or in the car going to work.

    I would not mind there being a Michael Jackson exhibit somewhere. But there is a difference between that an putting on Billie Jean on a party (if you believe MJ did what is being said). There is a difference between being a big part of our history and culture, and being all "I love singing along to this child molester!!"
    Yeah, but the obvious question is, where does it end? I don't even want to think about how many very famous musicians have fucked around with minors or done other terrible things. Not to mention actors, directors, and many, many other historical figures that are a big part of our culture. Censoring retroactively just will not work in any case, and I don't think it's a road we should even start heading down. Besides, there is always a lot that we don't want to listen to on the radio... that's when you turn the dial. Plenty of people do still want to listen to MJ.
    FWIW, I will always play earlier MJ. It's a permanent part of my music library.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 9,767
    edited March 11
    I think he did the stuff and I don’t know how anybody could’ve thought he was innocent before this aired. When you’re worth $1B you don’t worry about 10s of millions of dollars to clear your name if you’re innocent.

    Jimmys mom should’ve been left out b/c to me it seemed like she didn’t care one way or the other but relished appearing in the doc. She und ermined the believability of the info presented here.

    Wade’s mom and other parents like her that ignore obvious signs of abuse should be tossed in jail. 


    I was was on the fence with the guys in the doc until the last hour and they started talking about their families and how it was affecting them as adults.
    Post edited by DewieCox on
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,316
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    That's stupid. I hate the idea of any past material being pulled from anywhere in cases like this. It's way too subjective. I think it has to be an all or nothing thing, which of course leaves nothing as the only reasonable option.
    It’s an interesting situation, because throughout history there has been a lot of great art created by a lot of questionable people. Do we now feel we have to get rid of it all? And if not all, how far back? Just from our century? Just artists who are still alive? Everyone?? Picasso, Gaugin, Caravaggio? Norman Mailer, Ben Johnson, William Golding - all did terrible things, and that’s not even counting more garden variety terrible behaviour like racism and anti-Semitism. 

    I tend to agree with you - only all or nothing makes sense, so it has to be nothing, society-wise. Individual people are free to make their own individual choices of course.  
    I don't crank an album by Picasso (as an example) while I do my dishes or in the car going to work.

    I would not mind there being a Michael Jackson exhibit somewhere. But there is a difference between that an putting on Billie Jean on a party (if you believe MJ did what is being said). There is a difference between being a big part of our history and culture, and being all "I love singing along to this child molester!!"
    Yeah, but the obvious question is, where does it end? I don't even want to think about how many very famous musicians have fucked around with minors or done other terrible things. Not to mention actors, directors, and many, many other historical figures that are a big part of our culture. Censoring retroactively just will not work in any case, and I don't think it's a road we should even start heading down. Besides, there is always a lot that we don't want to listen to on the radio... that's when you turn the dial. Plenty of people do still want to listen to MJ.
    FWIW, I will always play earlier MJ. It's a permanent part of my music library.
    So you can wear a Michael Jackson Thriller tour of 1983 proudly then?
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
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