Leaving Neverland

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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,035
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,045
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,035
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    I don't think he in the minds of people, and people who listened to him, has been "an obvious pederast". 

    But okey. Now I understand. 

    I hope she can find peace.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,192
    There is nothing good about Micheal Jackson.  Hopefully, the trend of radio stations not playing his music continues, now music stores and digital music services need to remove this predators crap.  Essentially, everything Jackson needs to be boycotted.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,045
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    I don't think he in the minds of people, and people who listened to him, has been "an obvious pederast". 

    But okey. Now I understand. 

    I hope she can find peace.
    She was aware of accusations.  It is my opinion (and only that) that this was a situation where he was obviously up to no good with these kids.  As Howard Stern put it....if the guy loves kids so much, where are the little girls?
    I do understand that others did not see this as being obvious. 
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,035
    edited March 6
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    I don't think he in the minds of people, and people who listened to him, has been "an obvious pederast". 

    But okey. Now I understand. 

    I hope she can find peace.
    She was aware of accusations.  It is my opinion (and only that) that this was a situation where he was obviously up to no good with these kids.  As Howard Stern put it....if the guy loves kids so much, where are the little girls?
    I do understand that others did not see this as being obvious. 
    Haha. Can hear that in Sterns voice. 

    Okey. To me and other people I know it was a huge story and everyone was aware of the accusations  - He was freed and there were shady people using their kids to get money from him. I would say that was as an obvious "truth" as him being a "pederast". And with someone being freed and releasing great songs like Stranger in Moscow, life moves on.

    Obviously we didn't have Stern airing over here though.

    "Where are they? The girls. Only boys and MJ in a bedroom. Girls wanna hang too"
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,703
    I'm not sure why this is making waves now, when it's all been out there forever and nobody cared. Then again, stories about Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were out there forever, and people kept looking the other way, so --

    Too many people are willing to look away if the accused is famous enough, powerful enough, puts enough butts in seats. So, no, I'm not watching because I know it will just make me angry.
    I'm not sure that we heard from the victims as directly as this....I could be wrong.

    Interesting that Mac Culkin still denies any sexual assault.  My guess is that he just doesn't want to admit it.
    What's interesting? Maybe it's just this easy: Mac Culkin denies any sexual assault because he was never a victim of sexual assault.
    Possibly...As someone else mentioned, it is possible that MJ "friended" celebrities like Culkin and Cory Feldman and didn't molest them...knowing that they could be his "proof" that he might later need.

    Or....he did molest them and they just don't want to admit it.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,703
    Anyone watching this?  Pretty amazing stuff.
    Do you believe any of it?
    I sure do. Why wouldn't you? We've known for like 20 years that Jackson was likely a child molester. And these guys have enough proof of being with Jackson on stage, backstage, and at his ranch. Hell, they even have faxes and video birthday wish videos (or "congratulations" videos as Jackson says in it that he doesn't believe in birthdays). Also, it was produced by Oprah, who I doubt would sensationalize the story and make the "beloved" Michael Jackson look worse in death than he looked in life (which was already pretty damn bad) if she didn't believe the victims. 

    Watching this, I can't believe people back in the 90's weren't worried when they saw a 33-year-old man walking around holding hands with 9-year-old boys. Maybe people were trying not to be cynical and just thought "No way Michael Jackson would be molesting that kid."  I'm not a fan of how cynical our society has become, but nowadays, the moment he was seen holding a boy's hand, he'd be the subject of ridicule and criticism, and that would have been a good thing.  
    I think they did.  It's like the R Kelly stuff....he's been accused of abusing women for years and it just finally came down on him.

    When MJ was first sued the shit hit the fan.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,035
    I'm not sure why this is making waves now, when it's all been out there forever and nobody cared. Then again, stories about Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were out there forever, and people kept looking the other way, so --

    Too many people are willing to look away if the accused is famous enough, powerful enough, puts enough butts in seats. So, no, I'm not watching because I know it will just make me angry.
    I'm not sure that we heard from the victims as directly as this....I could be wrong.

    Interesting that Mac Culkin still denies any sexual assault.  My guess is that he just doesn't want to admit it.
    What's interesting? Maybe it's just this easy: Mac Culkin denies any sexual assault because he was never a victim of sexual assault.
    Possibly...As someone else mentioned, it is possible that MJ "friended" celebrities like Culkin and Cory Feldman and didn't molest them...knowing that they could be his "proof" that he might later need.

    Or....he did molest them and they just don't want to admit it.

    Or he didn't molest them because they were well known people and not dependent on him like other unknown kids. 

    Or he didn't molest them because he just didn't. Did Harvey Weinstein flash every actress in Hollywood?
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,703
    I'm curious if this documentary will cause others to come forward.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 11,461
    Anyone watching this?  Pretty amazing stuff.
    Do you believe any of it?
    I sure do. Why wouldn't you? We've known for like 20 years that Jackson was likely a child molester. And these guys have enough proof of being with Jackson on stage, backstage, and at his ranch. Hell, they even have faxes and video birthday wish videos (or "congratulations" videos as Jackson says in it that he doesn't believe in birthdays). Also, it was produced by Oprah, who I doubt would sensationalize the story and make the "beloved" Michael Jackson look worse in death than he looked in life (which was already pretty damn bad) if she didn't believe the victims. 

    Watching this, I can't believe people back in the 90's weren't worried when they saw a 33-year-old man walking around holding hands with 9-year-old boys. Maybe people were trying not to be cynical and just thought "No way Michael Jackson would be molesting that kid."  I'm not a fan of how cynical our society has become, but nowadays, the moment he was seen holding a boy's hand, he'd be the subject of ridicule and criticism, and that would have been a good thing.  
    I think they did.  It's like the R Kelly stuff....he's been accused of abusing women for years and it just finally came down on him.

    When MJ was first sued the shit hit the fan.
    It's a shame he died before he could face music like R. Kelly is. As disturbing as the graphic sexual abuse was, nearly as disturbing was Jackson's way of manipulating the kids to think they're families were bad for them and he was good. What a fucking psycho. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2

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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,035
    edited March 6
    Will have to watch this documentary tonight after work.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,192
    I'm not sure why this is making waves now, when it's all been out there forever and nobody cared. Then again, stories about Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were out there forever, and people kept looking the other way, so --

    Too many people are willing to look away if the accused is famous enough, powerful enough, puts enough butts in seats. So, no, I'm not watching because I know it will just make me angry.
    I'm not sure that we heard from the victims as directly as this....I could be wrong.

    Interesting that Mac Culkin still denies any sexual assault.  My guess is that he just doesn't want to admit it.
    What's interesting? Maybe it's just this easy: Mac Culkin denies any sexual assault because he was never a victim of sexual assault.
    Possibly...As someone else mentioned, it is possible that MJ "friended" celebrities like Culkin and Cory Feldman and didn't molest them...knowing that they could be his "proof" that he might later need.

    Or....he did molest them and they just don't want to admit it.
    If the bolded part is true, then there might be people still alive that were close to jacko the wacko that devised that plan.  Because I doubt that fool was intelligent enough to devise a plan like that.  
  • CROJAM95CROJAM95 Posts: 6,122
    Like I heard someone say recently

    all sexual assault ALLEGATIONS should be taken seriously, not ALL  neccesarily believed

    in such a high profile case like this, I’m sure 60,70% of the accusers are telling the truth and the others are trying to make money

    if I had to guess on MJ, I’d say yes he’s a pedophile....but there is that tiny part of my brain that says he was just some weird, eccentric guy who grew up in such an environment that normal adults can’t understand him and his behavior no matter what.


    98: 9-10 msg1...00: 8-23 JB1, 8-25 JB3, 8-27 Saratoga Springs...03: 4-30 Uniondale, 7-8 MSG1, 7-9 MSG2
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    09: 8-23 ChicagoI, 8-24 ChicagoII, 10-6 LA3, 10-7 LA4,10-9 SD,10-30,10-31 Philly...EV Solo 6-11 Philly2
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,019
    I'm curious if this documentary will cause others to come forward.
    I am curious of this as well.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,624
    edited March 6
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 10,062
    I agree.  I think you can separate the art from the person, and you arent morally less if you do so.  
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,045
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    Yes, she did not believe he was what I believed he was - an obvious kiddie raper.
    I suppose you could support a dead person by listening to their music, buying their stuff, etc...and that support could carry to their heirs...but I am not sure how else.

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,624
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    Yes, she did not believe he was what I believed he was - an obvious kiddie raper.
    I suppose you could support a dead person by listening to their music, buying their stuff, etc...and that support could carry to their heirs...but I am not sure how else.

    I don't know... If so, I guess I support MJ by listening??? I still spin his first 3 albums regularly, all of which are original pressings. But there is nothing for me to spend money on.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,045
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    Yes, she did not believe he was what I believed he was - an obvious kiddie raper.
    I suppose you could support a dead person by listening to their music, buying their stuff, etc...and that support could carry to their heirs...but I am not sure how else.

    I don't know... If so, I guess I support MJ by listening??? I still spin his first 3 albums regularly, all of which are original pressings. But there is nothing for me to spend money on.
    I don't know.  I guess you have them and are just listening to the music so no difference is made.  If you separate the man from the music then I don't think there is anything to note there,
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,035
    Doesn't seem to be available on HBO NORDIC :(
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,035
    edited March 6
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. I understand people use the term loosely and in a context of criminal activity, but anyways.

    The documentary doesn't seem to be available on swedish television untill 10th of mars. Boring! 
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,035
    And don't have Netflix anymore so can't see the R Kelly one. 

    Guess I'll youtube pearl jam the rest of the evening.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,384
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. I understand people use the term loosely and in a context of criminal activity, but anyways.

    The documentary doesn't seem to be available on swedish television untill 10th of mars. Boring! 
    Actually, that’s a good point. Lots of people who sexually abuse kids don’t have pedophilia, and from the limited evidence available, lots of people with pedophia never abuse children.  
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 9,781
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. 
    What the hell?
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,624
    Poncier said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. 
    What the hell?
    No, it's true (but of course S_C knew what I meant). There are pedos who manage to resist ever abusing children. Obviously they are not the problem... although their potential to abuse kids still is.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,035
    edited March 6
    Poncier said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. 
    What the hell?
    What the hell what? Nothing I wrote was in any way wrong? Just clearing up the wrong use of and associations to a term.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,035
    edited March 6
    PJ_Soul said:
    Poncier said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. 
    What the hell?
    No, it's true (but of course S_C knew what I meant). There are pedos who manage to resist ever abusing children. Obviously they are not the problem... although their potential to abuse kids still is.
    And associating the disorder (one can not help) with criminal and horrendous activity doesn't really help these people to seek help (if they feel they need it) because of the stigma/shame etc in society. 5% have this disorder. 

    So it's a win-win I think to separate the disorder and people doing criminal acts, as it should be.

    And yes, I knew what you meant. It was not meant as a dig at you. :)
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,035
    Man it's four hours? That's a long doc...
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,828
    If you watch the documentary and come away not believing these guys and thinking that MJ was not a manipulative child abuser I'm not sure that anything could convince you. 

    These guys lost a lawsuit because they waited too long, not because they were not believed and they aren't profiting from the documentary. They are getting death threats and their families are in tatters. I don't see how one cannot see the pattern of grooming and abuse and it is all on video (except the sex). 

    I hope this gives other victims of abuse a chance to understand it is not their fault and if not to come forward, to get help. That entire audience that Oprah had was full of child abuse victims, including Oprah. Common sense shows he was a serial offender. 

    It's not about hating on MJ for me, it's seeing how the process occurs and being aware of it with the children in my life. 

    Domestic abusers use the same tactics. And the manipulation spreads to your children and affects everyone's life in a permanent way. Except for the abuser who usually gets away with it because they are so good at manipulating people. They do not have feelings for people, everyone is just a pawn in their life in getting whatever is their desired end. 

    Wade Robeson is famous also and he defended him into his 30;s. As one wife said - love is a powerful thing and MJ used that 'love' to manipulate innocent children. It's about psychological and emotional manipulation. Even the families fell victim to it. Having  been in an abusive relationship, they explain the manipulation that draws you in so clearly.  

    It was so powerful and disturbing. MJ is gone but his name lives on in many different ways - this is one people don't want to believe for some reason. He was an active, unabashed pedophile. I don't give him any credit for being sick or crap like that. He acted on his desires freely without care for the children he claimed he loved so much. F him and all abusers. 

    Sorry, this doc just really hit home and I almost feel protective of these guys. 


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