Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez
Comments
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That’s like saying the military couldn’t be like Nazi Germany with the right person in charge though.dignin said:
I'm very well aware of the crimes of the SS. And I don't think comparing ICE to SS is fair...yet. But given the right man in charge they could do a lot worse. If anyone thinks that organizations in the US aren't capable of such madness they are naive. A couple of years ago people would have called me crazy if I told them America purposefully separated innocent kids (babies) from their parents permanently and kept them in cages. All because they were following orders. Always have to be aware of what's going on and the potential for worse.mrussel1 said:
You should watch some old SS footage if you have not. AHC has an entire series on the crimes of the SS. The comparison is akin to comparing a jay-walker to a serial killer.dignin said:They both used their power to abuse kids?
So - besides the basics (uniforms, weapons, etc) how are ICE and SS so alike? I guess if like the original poster to state what they meant, don’t want to put words in their mouth.
hippiemom = goodness0 -
I just said your analogy doesn't work so I don't know what your trying to say here.mrussel1 said:
Waffen SS were systematic purveyors or genocide. They came in behind the army and eliminated the citizenry. This was not only sanctioned, it was required. It was literally in the job duties. I don't see how you can possibly make that comparison unless you have some knowledge no one else has.dignin said:
Not really, SS we're serial killers and ICE has been accused of some pretty heinous crimes not equal to jaywalking. So I don't think the analogy works well.mcgruff10 said:0 -
I don't understand what you mean?cincybearcat said:
That’s like saying the military couldn’t be like Nazi Germany with the right person in charge though.dignin said:
I'm very well aware of the crimes of the SS. And I don't think comparing ICE to SS is fair...yet. But given the right man in charge they could do a lot worse. If anyone thinks that organizations in the US aren't capable of such madness they are naive. A couple of years ago people would have called me crazy if I told them America purposefully separated innocent kids (babies) from their parents permanently and kept them in cages. All because they were following orders. Always have to be aware of what's going on and the potential for worse.mrussel1 said:
You should watch some old SS footage if you have not. AHC has an entire series on the crimes of the SS. The comparison is akin to comparing a jay-walker to a serial killer.dignin said:They both used their power to abuse kids?0 -
I think it works because of the degrees of difference in severity, but fine who cares. Either way, it's not fair to compare ICE to the SS. There is a grand canyon between the crimes of a few officers and the mass, systematic genocide perpetrated as a practice. That's the point. And when comparisons like this are made, anyone to the right of AOC (75% of the country) roll their eyes and tune out relevant arguments.dignin said:
I just said your analogy doesn't work so I don't know what your trying to say here.mrussel1 said:
Waffen SS were systematic purveyors or genocide. They came in behind the army and eliminated the citizenry. This was not only sanctioned, it was required. It was literally in the job duties. I don't see how you can possibly make that comparison unless you have some knowledge no one else has.dignin said:
Not really, SS we're serial killers and ICE has been accused of some pretty heinous crimes not equal to jaywalking. So I don't think the analogy works well.mcgruff10 said:0 -
And yet you voted for Trump? When does lying or perceived lying really matter to you?RoleModelsinBlood31 said:Here’s a good laugh article on warren
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/05/elizabeth-warren-in-big-trouble-now/amp/It's a hopeless situation...0 -
"But given the right man in charge they could do a lot worse"dignin said:
I don't understand what you mean?cincybearcat said:
That’s like saying the military couldn’t be like Nazi Germany with the right person in charge though.dignin said:
I'm very well aware of the crimes of the SS. And I don't think comparing ICE to SS is fair...yet. But given the right man in charge they could do a lot worse. If anyone thinks that organizations in the US aren't capable of such madness they are naive. A couple of years ago people would have called me crazy if I told them America purposefully separated innocent kids (babies) from their parents permanently and kept them in cages. All because they were following orders. Always have to be aware of what's going on and the potential for worse.mrussel1 said:
You should watch some old SS footage if you have not. AHC has an entire series on the crimes of the SS. The comparison is akin to comparing a jay-walker to a serial killer.dignin said:They both used their power to abuse kids?
hippiemom = goodness0 -
unreal
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You basically said the accusations against ICE were the same as jaywalking. Minimizing serious accusations. I don't believe you think that, that's why the analogy is bad. But I agree, who cares.mrussel1 said:
I think it works because of the degrees of difference in severity, but fine who cares. Either way, it's not fair to compare ICE to the SS. There is a grand canyon between the crimes of a few officers and the mass, systematic genocide perpetrated as a practice. That's the point. And when comparisons like this are made, anyone to the right of AOC (75% of the country) roll their eyes and tune out relevant arguments.dignin said:
I just said your analogy doesn't work so I don't know what your trying to say here.mrussel1 said:
Waffen SS were systematic purveyors or genocide. They came in behind the army and eliminated the citizenry. This was not only sanctioned, it was required. It was literally in the job duties. I don't see how you can possibly make that comparison unless you have some knowledge no one else has.dignin said:
Not really, SS we're serial killers and ICE has been accused of some pretty heinous crimes not equal to jaywalking. So I don't think the analogy works well.mcgruff10 said:
And I already stated that the comparison was unfair, so I agree with your point.
Also, is there a poll where 75% of the country is right of AOC? Be interested to see it.0 -
dignin said:
You basically said the accusations against ICE were the same as jaywalking. Minimizing serious accusations. I don't believe you think that, that's why the analogy is bad. But I agree, who cares.mrussel1 said:
I think it works because of the degrees of difference in severity, but fine who cares. Either way, it's not fair to compare ICE to the SS. There is a grand canyon between the crimes of a few officers and the mass, systematic genocide perpetrated as a practice. That's the point. And when comparisons like this are made, anyone to the right of AOC (75% of the country) roll their eyes and tune out relevant arguments.dignin said:
I just said your analogy doesn't work so I don't know what your trying to say here.mrussel1 said:
Waffen SS were systematic purveyors or genocide. They came in behind the army and eliminated the citizenry. This was not only sanctioned, it was required. It was literally in the job duties. I don't see how you can possibly make that comparison unless you have some knowledge no one else has.dignin said:
Not really, SS we're serial killers and ICE has been accused of some pretty heinous crimes not equal to jaywalking. So I don't think the analogy works well.mcgruff10 said:
And I already stated that the comparison was unfair, so I agree with your point.
Also, is there a poll where 75% of the country is right of AOC? Be interested to see it.
I'd like to see that data, too. I think the available data shows that the majority of citizens want to be paid fairly, would like affordable and accessible healthcare, and are concerned about climate change.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
I'm making a generalization that the extremes of each party represent about 25% of the population. There's probably another 30% that are more moderate, where they take non-idealized positions and then another 20% or so that are completely disengaged. Notwithstanding that article that tried to argue that liberal positions are mainstream and Joe Biden is therefore a Republican, I think it's safe to say that AOC is a camped on the hard left. It's not an insult, it's about ideology.dignin said:
You basically said the accusations against ICE were the same as jaywalking. Minimizing serious accusations. I don't believe you think that, that's why the analogy is bad. But I agree, who cares.mrussel1 said:
I think it works because of the degrees of difference in severity, but fine who cares. Either way, it's not fair to compare ICE to the SS. There is a grand canyon between the crimes of a few officers and the mass, systematic genocide perpetrated as a practice. That's the point. And when comparisons like this are made, anyone to the right of AOC (75% of the country) roll their eyes and tune out relevant arguments.dignin said:
I just said your analogy doesn't work so I don't know what your trying to say here.mrussel1 said:
Waffen SS were systematic purveyors or genocide. They came in behind the army and eliminated the citizenry. This was not only sanctioned, it was required. It was literally in the job duties. I don't see how you can possibly make that comparison unless you have some knowledge no one else has.dignin said:
Not really, SS we're serial killers and ICE has been accused of some pretty heinous crimes not equal to jaywalking. So I don't think the analogy works well.mcgruff10 said:
And I already stated that the comparison was unfair, so I agree with your point.
Also, is there a poll where 75% of the country is right of AOC? Be interested to see it.0 -
What I got from that article was less about Joe Biden being a republican and more the idea that the media has framed AOC, Bernie and Warren as extreme when polling shows their policies are quite mainstream. That the media isn't being fair.mrussel1 said:
I'm making a generalization that the extremes of each party represent about 25% of the population. There's probably another 30% that are more moderate, where they take non-idealized positions and then another 20% or so that are completely disengaged. Notwithstanding that article that tried to argue that liberal positions are mainstream and Joe Biden is therefore a Republican, I think it's safe to say that AOC is a camped on the hard left. It's not an insult, it's about ideology.dignin said:
You basically said the accusations against ICE were the same as jaywalking. Minimizing serious accusations. I don't believe you think that, that's why the analogy is bad. But I agree, who cares.mrussel1 said:
I think it works because of the degrees of difference in severity, but fine who cares. Either way, it's not fair to compare ICE to the SS. There is a grand canyon between the crimes of a few officers and the mass, systematic genocide perpetrated as a practice. That's the point. And when comparisons like this are made, anyone to the right of AOC (75% of the country) roll their eyes and tune out relevant arguments.dignin said:
I just said your analogy doesn't work so I don't know what your trying to say here.mrussel1 said:
Waffen SS were systematic purveyors or genocide. They came in behind the army and eliminated the citizenry. This was not only sanctioned, it was required. It was literally in the job duties. I don't see how you can possibly make that comparison unless you have some knowledge no one else has.dignin said:
Not really, SS we're serial killers and ICE has been accused of some pretty heinous crimes not equal to jaywalking. So I don't think the analogy works well.mcgruff10 said:
And I already stated that the comparison was unfair, so I agree with your point.
Also, is there a poll where 75% of the country is right of AOC? Be interested to see it.
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Considering Mrussell1 actually lives in America, and has his entire life, i'm not sure he needs to be grilled over his 75% statement or provide data... he is obviously generalizing, and pretty accurately in my experience0
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Fair enough, but it sought to disparage moderates like me. And the point of moderation is the pace and the degree of any change or policy. I'm all about green energy, but not about banning combustion engines in the next 5 years. I'm pro-choice, but not for 9 month abortion where the health of the woman isn't at risk (I don't want to argue abortion, just making a point). I'm pro-gun control which includes universal background, no ARs, etc, but still believe in the fundamentals of the 2nd amendment. So that's where the author is misleading on polling and how polling has limitations, because so many people have guardrails around their beliefs that prevent them from swinging too far in either direction.dignin said:
What I got from that article was less about Joe Biden being a republican and more the idea that the media has framed AOC, Bernie and Warren as extreme when polling shows their policies are quite mainstream. That the media isn't being fair.mrussel1 said:
I'm making a generalization that the extremes of each party represent about 25% of the population. There's probably another 30% that are more moderate, where they take non-idealized positions and then another 20% or so that are completely disengaged. Notwithstanding that article that tried to argue that liberal positions are mainstream and Joe Biden is therefore a Republican, I think it's safe to say that AOC is a camped on the hard left. It's not an insult, it's about ideology.dignin said:
You basically said the accusations against ICE were the same as jaywalking. Minimizing serious accusations. I don't believe you think that, that's why the analogy is bad. But I agree, who cares.mrussel1 said:
I think it works because of the degrees of difference in severity, but fine who cares. Either way, it's not fair to compare ICE to the SS. There is a grand canyon between the crimes of a few officers and the mass, systematic genocide perpetrated as a practice. That's the point. And when comparisons like this are made, anyone to the right of AOC (75% of the country) roll their eyes and tune out relevant arguments.dignin said:
I just said your analogy doesn't work so I don't know what your trying to say here.mrussel1 said:
Waffen SS were systematic purveyors or genocide. They came in behind the army and eliminated the citizenry. This was not only sanctioned, it was required. It was literally in the job duties. I don't see how you can possibly make that comparison unless you have some knowledge no one else has.dignin said:
Not really, SS we're serial killers and ICE has been accused of some pretty heinous crimes not equal to jaywalking. So I don't think the analogy works well.mcgruff10 said:
And I already stated that the comparison was unfair, so I agree with your point.
Also, is there a poll where 75% of the country is right of AOC? Be interested to see it.0 -
Haha. I'm not surprised you think polite questions are a grilling. I'm sure he's got this handled.my2hands said:Considering Mrussell1 actually lives in America, and has his entire life, i'm not sure he needs to be grilled over his 75% statement or provide data... he is obviously generalizing, and pretty accurately in my experience0 -
You guys take things so literally, its amazing
Asking for data was just flat out friggin silly and ridiculous when he was obviously generalizing... is that better?
arguing over semantics and silly shit that doesnt matter is old around here0 -
Everyone wants those things, it is just how we can accomplish them that everyone disagrees on.oftenreading said:dignin said:
You basically said the accusations against ICE were the same as jaywalking. Minimizing serious accusations. I don't believe you think that, that's why the analogy is bad. But I agree, who cares.mrussel1 said:
I think it works because of the degrees of difference in severity, but fine who cares. Either way, it's not fair to compare ICE to the SS. There is a grand canyon between the crimes of a few officers and the mass, systematic genocide perpetrated as a practice. That's the point. And when comparisons like this are made, anyone to the right of AOC (75% of the country) roll their eyes and tune out relevant arguments.dignin said:
I just said your analogy doesn't work so I don't know what your trying to say here.mrussel1 said:
Waffen SS were systematic purveyors or genocide. They came in behind the army and eliminated the citizenry. This was not only sanctioned, it was required. It was literally in the job duties. I don't see how you can possibly make that comparison unless you have some knowledge no one else has.dignin said:
Not really, SS we're serial killers and ICE has been accused of some pretty heinous crimes not equal to jaywalking. So I don't think the analogy works well.mcgruff10 said:
And I already stated that the comparison was unfair, so I agree with your point.
Also, is there a poll where 75% of the country is right of AOC? Be interested to see it.
I'd like to see that data, too. I think the available data shows that the majority of citizens want to be paid fairly, would like affordable and accessible healthcare, and are concerned about climate change.
I haven't seen any of that data either, but considering her "just pay for it" attitude and questionable comments like supporting those "unwilling to work" that 75% might have been a conservative estimate.0 -
Again, I was using a generally accepted political talking point of how where the base of each party sits. Don't get too caught up in it, it's not the point. And yes Mace is right as is OftenReading... we all want those things. Those are about the least controversial things you could say.0
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While I may not have numbers to back this up, I'm fairly confident that it's more than 49% of the country that is to the right of AOC. She does not represent a majority. If you ask push poll questions like "Do you believe that the climate is changing and we should act on it" or "Do you believe all Americans should have access to affordable healthcare", then the questions will be resoundingly "YES" for exactly the reasons that Mace points out. But these are essentially push polls that are designed to be used politically rather than measure people's real opinion. They are useless.0
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Ledbetterman10 said:
Hey if you think American law-enforcement officers are tantamount to being Nazis, I guess Harris is your candidate. I personally don't mind the comparison (though I don't agree), I just think she should have owned it and not hid behind the "there's a perception" crap. Again, that's just like Trump saying "Lots of people are saying......."PJ_Soul said:Ledbetterman10 said:
Harris pissed me off a bit when she was questioning the ICE nominee guy and asked him if he was aware of the "perception" that there are similarities between ICE and the KKK. What a fucking cop-out. Sounds like SHE thinks that there are similarities between ICE and the KKK, and so she should say that. Don't hide behind "people are saying." That's right out Trump's playbook.PJ_Soul said:Kamala Harris is pleasant to listen to. So is Elizabeth Warren. No barking at all from those two. Why is everyone paying so much attention to Bernie when these two women are so much more appealing?
Warren's alright I guess. As for Harris, other than this ICE thing, her Jussie Smollet "lynching" quote, and her claim to have been listening to Tupac and Snoop in college, despite their debut albums coming out after she graduated, she's not bad. Hey, she's for legalizing weed. That carries weight with me. But I don't think either will win the nomination.Yeah, I actually see far more similarities between ICE and the SS myself. But I have no problems with how she phrased that question.Warren is a really inspiring speaker, and truly enthusiastic. I think if she got a real shot (i.e. Bernie-like attention) she could actually manage to really energize people.Frankly, I feel like Americans just don't feel confident enough that a woman can win this one, in the sense that they don't want to take the chance of a female nominee, given the stakes.
And I think you're right that people aren't feeling confident in a woman right now. Hillary had a lot of baggage, but also a lot of resources. If she couldn't win, Harris, Warren, or Gillilbrand would have lot of trouble.Well nobody is my candidate (and please don't twist my words that way. Thank you). I can't vote for any of them. But that is a real perception held by many. She wasn't lying. Her saying that doesn't exclude her from thinking that at all. I really think you're making a mountain out of mole hill on that one.Yes, you sure did summarize the rampant sexism being exposed by this campaign run-up well. Those who deny that is a major factor (among others) are lying to themselves.Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Seriously? This is your response? You're not going to address your ridiculous comparison of ICE to the SS? I'm sure you saw the responses to it on the previous page of this thread. Oh well. I guess I'd distance myself from a statement like that too.PJ_Soul said:Ledbetterman10 said:
Hey if you think American law-enforcement officers are tantamount to being Nazis, I guess Harris is your candidate. I personally don't mind the comparison (though I don't agree), I just think she should have owned it and not hid behind the "there's a perception" crap. Again, that's just like Trump saying "Lots of people are saying......."PJ_Soul said:Ledbetterman10 said:
Harris pissed me off a bit when she was questioning the ICE nominee guy and asked him if he was aware of the "perception" that there are similarities between ICE and the KKK. What a fucking cop-out. Sounds like SHE thinks that there are similarities between ICE and the KKK, and so she should say that. Don't hide behind "people are saying." That's right out Trump's playbook.PJ_Soul said:Kamala Harris is pleasant to listen to. So is Elizabeth Warren. No barking at all from those two. Why is everyone paying so much attention to Bernie when these two women are so much more appealing?
Warren's alright I guess. As for Harris, other than this ICE thing, her Jussie Smollet "lynching" quote, and her claim to have been listening to Tupac and Snoop in college, despite their debut albums coming out after she graduated, she's not bad. Hey, she's for legalizing weed. That carries weight with me. But I don't think either will win the nomination.Yeah, I actually see far more similarities between ICE and the SS myself. But I have no problems with how she phrased that question.Warren is a really inspiring speaker, and truly enthusiastic. I think if she got a real shot (i.e. Bernie-like attention) she could actually manage to really energize people.Frankly, I feel like Americans just don't feel confident enough that a woman can win this one, in the sense that they don't want to take the chance of a female nominee, given the stakes.
And I think you're right that people aren't feeling confident in a woman right now. Hillary had a lot of baggage, but also a lot of resources. If she couldn't win, Harris, Warren, or Gillilbrand would have lot of trouble.Well nobody is my candidate (and please don't twist my words that way. Thank you). I can't vote for any of them. But that is a real perception held by many. She wasn't lying. Her saying that doesn't exclude her from thinking that at all. I really think you're making a mountain out of mole hill on that one.Yes, you sure did summarize the rampant sexism being exposed by this campaign run-up well. Those who deny that is a major factor (among others) are lying to themselves.
2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
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