And I think there could be child porn charges even if he didn't know, if there is proof of sexual photos being sent to him by her....although probably only if he still has them, which of course he doesn't... as of 10 minutes after that article was posted, lol.
If she can be identified as under 18 years him claiming ignorance now wont matter.
Pictures/video dont go away just because you delete them
well see
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Seemed like there were a couple others where he held his influence and industry connections over their heads in an effort to gain favor.
I’m willing to give him a bit of a pass on the ones that he seemed to have dated, but it does support a pattern of manipulative bahavior if nothing else.
Hard to have much sympathy for Moore. Not to victim blame, but she was in a position to do something about it without repercussions and to seemingly blame him for her stumbling music career is a little tasteless given the other victims.
The nude surprise Skype with a 16 year old is pretty damning.
Mostly agree with this. He should also have the right to defend himself abgaintsbteh accusations with the teenager especially
I am not going to try to parse words, opinions or make ways through facts vs innuendo, however one thing that is curious to me is that the underage case would clearly rise to a criminal level, it strikes me as a little odd that it is sort of just submitted as corroborating evidence that he has had a history of boorish behavior - which is in fact NOT news.
The journalism on this feels a touch sloppy and disjointed. That doesn't make it false, but it does seem like there are some gaps of information.
For the girl, if it’s true. For him, if it’s not. I doubt the NYT would write a detailed column if they didn’t have substantial evidence they examined.
Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes people lie about their age. It's not like that is an insane possibility. It's not uncommon. He did keep asking her though, so he was at least suspicious..... Still, she sounds like a possible catfish, so who knows. Also, I have no clue - is sexting with someone who's underaged illegal? Or just gross?? I guess if she sent him naked photos of herself, that's illegal... for both of them. Her for transmitting child porn, and him for possessing it.
In the eyes of the law, it doesn’t matter if the girl lied about her age or not. It is still every bit as illegal as if she had admitted she was underage. Just like a bartender serving someone with a fake ID is legally culpable for serving a minor as if the ID said the person was 14. You may not like it, but that’s the law.
Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes people lie about their age. It's not like that is an insane possibility. It's not uncommon. He did keep asking her though, so he was at least suspicious..... Still, she sounds like a possible catfish, so who knows. Also, I have no clue - is sexting with someone who's underaged illegal? Or just gross?? I guess if she sent him naked photos of herself, that's illegal... for both of them. Her for transmitting child porn, and him for possessing it.
In the eyes of the law, it doesn’t matter if the girl lied about her age or not. It is still every bit as illegal as if she had admitted she was underage. Just like a bartender serving someone with a fake ID is legally culpable for serving a minor as if the ID said the person was 14. You may not like it, but that’s the law.
this is actually not true, to begin with there are state to state laws that apply for a fake ID, and if a server asks for ID verification and the ID is not clearly fake, manipulated or otherwise a server is not held liable if a person provides a fake identification that appears real. Bottom line it would need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt the server was negligent in their duty to protect their liquor license.
it is not accurate nor a good comparison to the issue with Adams, it may seem analogous but it isn't.
The journalism on this feels a touch sloppy and disjointed. That doesn't make it false, but it does seem like there are some gaps of information.
The article is terribly written. On one hand I'm reading about an awful offense involving an underage girl. Then the next point being made is that he said to Mandy Moore she's not a musician because she doesn't play an instrument. Its jarring to read. These more frivolous points this detract from the real story here IMO.
2010: London 2012: Manchester I, Manchester II, Manchester (EV) 2014: Milan, Leeds, Milton Keynes 2017: London II (EV) 2018: Amsterdam I, London I, Prague, London II 2019: London (EV) 2022: London I, London II, Budapest, Krakow, Amsterdam
I am not going to try to parse words, opinions or make ways through facts vs innuendo, however one thing that is curious to me is that the underage case would clearly rise to a criminal level, it strikes me as a little odd that it is sort of just submitted as corroborating evidence that he has had a history of boorish behavior - which is in fact NOT news.
The journalism on this feels a touch sloppy and disjointed. That doesn't make it false, but it does seem like there are some gaps of information.
For the girl, if it’s true. For him, if it’s not. I doubt the NYT would write a detailed column if they didn’t have substantial evidence they examined.
I mentioned the Times article too. It's not very well written. It is something I would expect from the NY Post.
The journalism on this feels a touch sloppy and disjointed. That doesn't make it false, but it does seem like there are some gaps of information.
The article is terribly written. On one hand I'm reading about an awful offense involving an underage girl. Then the next point being made is that he said to Mandy Moore she's not a musician because she doesn't play an instrument. Its jarring to read. These more frivolous points this detract from the real story here IMO.
Yeah. The part with Mandy Moore and others feels like character assassination and weird in context of going after a 14 year old.. I guess it's to show a pattern of behavior and his character but anyways.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The journalism on this feels a touch sloppy and disjointed. That doesn't make it false, but it does seem like there are some gaps of information.
The article is terribly written. On one hand I'm reading about an awful offense involving an underage girl. Then the next point being made is that he said to Mandy Moore she's not a musician because she doesn't play an instrument. Its jarring to read. These more frivolous points this detract from the real story here IMO.
Yeah. The part with Mandy Moore and others feels like character assassination and weird in context of going after a 14 year old.. I guess it's to show a pattern of behavior and his character but anyways.
We all knew he was a weirdo already.
What the article was trying to do was show that he is a creep and to not put it past everyone that he could be a pedo, got that.
The article does have holes and I am surprised that out of all the texts from years past the only thing that they have is a comment about being RKelly?
There has to be more. I would also believe that more people will come forward because like in the past other instances of something like this, it doesn't happen once.
There should be more people coming out soon I would guess.
Again though that article by the Times was poorly written.
Seemed like there were a couple others where he held his influence and industry connections over their heads in an effort to gain favor.
I’m willing to give him a bit of a pass on the ones that he seemed to have dated, but it does support a pattern of manipulative bahavior if nothing else.
Hard to have much sympathy for Moore. Not to victim blame, but she was in a position to do something about it without repercussions and to seemingly blame him for her stumbling music career is a little tasteless given the other victims.
The nude surprise Skype with a 16 year old is pretty damning.
Mostly agree with this. He should also have the right to defend himself abgaintsbteh accusations with the teenager especially
The whole thing sucks all around
Not to victim blame - but let me victim blame....
How was she in any position to DO something without repercussions? If these allegations are true then she was being emotionally abused. How was she in the best position? She was married and living with the guy so if he is indeed an abusive person then she was slowly sucked in and then harmed just as much as any of the others. Emotional abuse can be more harmful to your feelings of self worth than physical abuse. I'd rather get hit everyday than be emotionally abused everyday and I know of what I speak.
When someone causes you to doubt your worth & to lose interest in things that defined who you were, that is just pure evil.
And Moore, the ex-fiancee and the under=age girl at least, stopped pursuing music after their interactions with him. That is having part of yourself stolen. Without your permission. Abusers and narcissists are very good at charming people and drawing them in. If they do not have to interact with people on a regular basis, this can be used as a way of getting people to believe you are sincere. If you are in their everyday life or intimate circle, you have already been sucked in before the bad behavior begins and you have been stripped of your confidence and it can be extremely difficult to break free and then even after they will torment you.
And I don't see how the teen-ager was cat fishing him. She followed him, just as I and I'm sure many of us follow Pearl Jam or the separate members on social media. He followed her back and started to personally interact with her. How is she catfishing him when he is showing up on Skype naked?
The one person who I think got a raw deal in the Me too movement is Al Franken. He was accused by two conservative operatives and the accusations were never vetted before his fellow Democrats pushed him out of the Senate.
He''s been accused by 12 employees and 6 or 7 women. He is not guilty because he has been accused but they do have texts and emails. They worked on the story for 5 years before coming out with it. There may be reasons that they cannot disclose more than they did. Or he may be innocent.
But if you are not going to victim blame, and you don't know how abuse works, then just don't do it.
Seemed like there were a couple others where he held his influence and industry connections over their heads in an effort to gain favor.
I’m willing to give him a bit of a pass on the ones that he seemed to have dated, but it does support a pattern of manipulative bahavior if nothing else.
Hard to have much sympathy for Moore. Not to victim blame, but she was in a position to do something about it without repercussions and to seemingly blame him for her stumbling music career is a little tasteless given the other victims.
The nude surprise Skype with a 16 year old is pretty damning.
Mostly agree with this. He should also have the right to defend himself abgaintsbteh accusations with the teenager especially
The whole thing sucks all around
Not to victim blame - but let me victim blame....
How was she in any position to DO something without repercussions? If these allegations are true then she was being emotionally abused. How was she in the best position? She was married and living with the guy so if he is indeed an abusive person then she was slowly sucked in and then harmed just as much as any of the others. Emotional abuse can be more harmful to your feelings of self worth than physical abuse. I'd rather get hit everyday than be emotionally abused everyday and I know of what I speak.
When someone causes you to doubt your worth & to lose interest in things that defined who you were, that is just pure evil.
And Moore, the ex-fiancee and the under=age girl at least, stopped pursuing music after their interactions with him. That is having part of yourself stolen. Without your permission. Abusers and narcissists are very good at charming people and drawing them in. If they do not have to interact with people on a regular basis, this can be used as a way of getting people to believe you are sincere. If you are in their everyday life or intimate circle, you have already been sucked in before the bad behavior begins and you have been stripped of your confidence and it can be extremely difficult to break free and then even after they will torment you.
And I don't see how the teen-ager was cat fishing him. She followed him, just as I and I'm sure many of us follow Pearl Jam or the separate members on social media. He followed her back and started to personally interact with her. How is she catfishing him when he is showing up on Skype naked?
The one person who I think got a raw deal in the Me too movement is Al Franken. He was accused by two conservative operatives and the accusations were never vetted before his fellow Democrats pushed him out of the Senate.
He''s been accused by 12 employees and 6 or 7 women. He is not guilty because he has been accused but they do have texts and emails. They worked on the story for 5 years before coming out with it. There may be reasons that they cannot disclose more than they did. Or he may be innocent.
But if you are not going to victim blame, and you don't know how abuse works, then just don't do it.
This bit of info would have changed my mind even more.
And I think there could be child porn charges even if he didn't know, if there is proof of sexual photos being sent to him by her....although probably only if he still has them, which of course he doesn't... as of 10 minutes after that article was posted, lol.
What do you think he meant when he called himself R Kelly? What other reason would he need proof of her age? He was clearly baiting her into lying about her age.
“I would get I trouble if someone knew we talked like this”
Not defending Adams because we all knew he was a whacko but did anyone think that this Times piece was underwhelming?
There were supposedly years of texting back and forth and the R Kelly line is the only real damaging thing?
The other girls he was with shows that he sucks at relationships, I get that, fine, he sucks.
The 14yo story needs more. If anything this will flush out more people if he's done this with more than one person.
Needless to say I won't be attending his concerts anytime soon until this is cleared up.
They have over 3000 messages between them. There's a good chance they are holding some stuff back. Almost baiting him to come out and deny it before they say, "Gotcha!".
And I think there could be child porn charges even if he didn't know, if there is proof of sexual photos being sent to him by her....although probably only if he still has them, which of course he doesn't... as of 10 minutes after that article was posted, lol.
What do you think he meant when he called himself R Kelly? What other reason would he need proof of her age? He was clearly baiting her into lying about her age.
“I would get I trouble if someone knew we talked like this”
Not defending Adams because we all knew he was a whacko but did anyone think that this Times piece was underwhelming?
There were supposedly years of texting back and forth and the R Kelly line is the only real damaging thing?
The other girls he was with shows that he sucks at relationships, I get that, fine, he sucks.
The 14yo story needs more. If anything this will flush out more people if he's done this with more than one person.
Needless to say I won't be attending his concerts anytime soon until this is cleared up.
They have over 3000 messages between them. There's a good chance they are holding some stuff back. Almost baiting him to come out and deny it before they say, "Gotcha!".
Dude is a piece of shit. I hope they bury him.
Well he's come out already and denied it so let's see the other 3000 text's then. I guess they are holding back for the "follow up" piece the Times plans on running?
And I think there could be child porn charges even if he didn't know, if there is proof of sexual photos being sent to him by her....although probably only if he still has them, which of course he doesn't... as of 10 minutes after that article was posted, lol.
What do you think he meant when he called himself R Kelly? What other reason would he need proof of her age? He was clearly baiting her into lying about her age.
“I would get I trouble if someone knew we talked like this”
Not defending Adams because we all knew he was a whacko but did anyone think that this Times piece was underwhelming?
There were supposedly years of texting back and forth and the R Kelly line is the only real damaging thing?
The other girls he was with shows that he sucks at relationships, I get that, fine, he sucks.
The 14yo story needs more. If anything this will flush out more people if he's done this with more than one person.
Needless to say I won't be attending his concerts anytime soon until this is cleared up.
They have over 3000 messages between them. There's a good chance they are holding some stuff back. Almost baiting him to come out and deny it before they say, "Gotcha!".
Dude is a piece of shit. I hope they bury him.
Well he's come out already and denied it so let's see the other 3000 text's then. I guess they are holding back for the "follow up" piece the Times plans on running?
If you've got evidence, nail him to the cross.
And the alleged disgusting behavior with, at minimum, the under age girl was done during his marriage to Mandy Moore. I don't know if he was doing this with other fans that he took a particular interest in but that's as good as cheating. So, if true, he is abusive and a POS cheater - don't care if he ever touched her - it breaks all the bonds of a marriage on his end.
And I think there could be child porn charges even if he didn't know, if there is proof of sexual photos being sent to him by her....although probably only if he still has them, which of course he doesn't... as of 10 minutes after that article was posted, lol.
What do you think he meant when he called himself R Kelly? What other reason would he need proof of her age? He was clearly baiting her into lying about her age.
“I would get I trouble if someone knew we talked like this”
Not defending Adams because we all knew he was a whacko but did anyone think that this Times piece was underwhelming?
There were supposedly years of texting back and forth and the R Kelly line is the only real damaging thing?
The other girls he was with shows that he sucks at relationships, I get that, fine, he sucks.
The 14yo story needs more. If anything this will flush out more people if he's done this with more than one person.
Needless to say I won't be attending his concerts anytime soon until this is cleared up.
They have over 3000 messages between them. There's a good chance they are holding some stuff back. Almost baiting him to come out and deny it before they say, "Gotcha!".
Dude is a piece of shit. I hope they bury him.
Well he's come out already and denied it so let's see the other 3000 text's then. I guess they are holding back for the "follow up" piece the Times plans on running?
If you've got evidence, nail him to the cross.
And the alleged disgusting behavior with, at minimum, the under age girl was done during his marriage to Mandy Moore. I don't know if he was doing this with other fans that he took a particular interest in but that's as good as cheating. So, if true, he is abusive and a POS cheater - don't care if he ever touched her - it breaks all the bonds of a marriage on his end.
Hard to look at his music in the same way.
Actually I wonder if Prisoner had a completely different meaning now?!?
On a side, but related note, does anyone else find it weird how easily people have turned a blind eye to the likes of Jimmy Page, Bowie, Iggy Pop etc having had sexual relationships with underage girls?
And I think there could be child porn charges even if he didn't know, if there is proof of sexual photos being sent to him by her....although probably only if he still has them, which of course he doesn't... as of 10 minutes after that article was posted, lol.
What do you think he meant when he called himself R Kelly? What other reason would he need proof of her age? He was clearly baiting her into lying about her age.
“I would get I trouble if someone knew we talked like this”
Not defending Adams because we all knew he was a whacko but did anyone think that this Times piece was underwhelming?
There were supposedly years of texting back and forth and the R Kelly line is the only real damaging thing?
The other girls he was with shows that he sucks at relationships, I get that, fine, he sucks.
The 14yo story needs more. If anything this will flush out more people if he's done this with more than one person.
Needless to say I won't be attending his concerts anytime soon until this is cleared up.
They have over 3000 messages between them. There's a good chance they are holding some stuff back. Almost baiting him to come out and deny it before they say, "Gotcha!".
Dude is a piece of shit. I hope they bury him.
Well he's come out already and denied it so let's see the other 3000 text's then. I guess they are holding back for the "follow up" piece the Times plans on running?
If you've got evidence, nail him to the cross.
And the alleged disgusting behavior with, at minimum, the under age girl was done during his marriage to Mandy Moore. I don't know if he was doing this with other fans that he took a particular interest in but that's as good as cheating. So, if true, he is abusive and a POS cheater - don't care if he ever touched her - it breaks all the bonds of a marriage on his end.
Hard to look at his music in the same way.
Actually I wonder if Prisoner had a completely different meaning now?!?
No doubt.
"I know our love is wrong
I am a criminal"
Yikes, lol. I really HOPE that isn't what he was actually singing about. Can you imagine????
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
goldrush
everybody knows this is nowhere Posts: 7,264
edited February 2019
There may be a time when I'll want to listen to Ryan again but it looks like it will probably be a long way off. (Hell, I might be able to listen to Brand New again one day, and Jesse Lacey is a real piece of shit.) I deleted all of his music off my ipad last night. It's still on my hard drive for now, but I just can't stand to look at it.
“Do not postpone happiness”
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
Big Colors has been taken down from the PaxAm store now
Yikes. I'm thinking one of those female journalists that he sent an advance copy to should leak that. Selfishly because I still want to at least hear it...but my money won't be going to him. Stick it to him. It's becoming all too clear that he's a horrible person and now likely in massive legal trouble. It's incredible.
Seemed like there were a couple others where he held his influence and industry connections over their heads in an effort to gain favor.
I’m willing to give him a bit of a pass on the ones that he seemed to have dated, but it does support a pattern of manipulative bahavior if nothing else.
Hard to have much sympathy for Moore. Not to victim blame, but she was in a position to do something about it without repercussions and to seemingly blame him for her stumbling music career is a little tasteless given the other victims.
The nude surprise Skype with a 16 year old is pretty damning.
Mostly agree with this. He should also have the right to defend himself abgaintsbteh accusations with the teenager especially
The whole thing sucks all around
Not to victim blame - but let me victim blame....
How was she in any position to DO something without repercussions? If these allegations are true then she was being emotionally abused. How was she in the best position? She was married and living with the guy so if he is indeed an abusive person then she was slowly sucked in and then harmed just as much as any of the others. Emotional abuse can be more harmful to your feelings of self worth than physical abuse. I'd rather get hit everyday than be emotionally abused everyday and I know of what I speak.
When someone causes you to doubt your worth & to lose interest in things that defined who you were, that is just pure evil.
And Moore, the ex-fiancee and the under=age girl at least, stopped pursuing music after their interactions with him. That is having part of yourself stolen. Without your permission. Abusers and narcissists are very good at charming people and drawing them in. If they do not have to interact with people on a regular basis, this can be used as a way of getting people to believe you are sincere. If you are in their everyday life or intimate circle, you have already been sucked in before the bad behavior begins and you have been stripped of your confidence and it can be extremely difficult to break free and then even after they will torment you.
And I don't see how the teen-ager was cat fishing him. She followed him, just as I and I'm sure many of us follow Pearl Jam or the separate members on social media. He followed her back and started to personally interact with her. How is she catfishing him when he is showing up on Skype naked?
The one person who I think got a raw deal in the Me too movement is Al Franken. He was accused by two conservative operatives and the accusations were never vetted before his fellow Democrats pushed him out of the Senate.
He''s been accused by 12 employees and 6 or 7 women. He is not guilty because he has been accused but they do have texts and emails. They worked on the story for 5 years before coming out with it. There may be reasons that they cannot disclose more than they did. Or he may be innocent.
But if you are not going to victim blame, and you don't know how abuse works, then just don't do it.
Didn’t mean to come off as victim blaming. What sucks most is that these women were treated this way. There’s no doubt about that. None of this is a stretch if you are a Ryan Adams fan. Everyone has always know he’s a dick but it was excused or ignored because of the music. He’s not the first musician to get the pass or the last. I don’t think this was exclusive to women either. Most of his purely professional relationships ended the same way. Ask The Cardinals. Or Mike Viola etc etc.
And I think there could be child porn charges even if he didn't know, if there is proof of sexual photos being sent to him by her....although probably only if he still has them, which of course he doesn't... as of 10 minutes after that article was posted, lol.
What do you think he meant when he called himself R Kelly? What other reason would he need proof of her age? He was clearly baiting her into lying about her age.
“I would get I trouble if someone knew we talked like this”
Not defending Adams because we all knew he was a whacko but did anyone think that this Times piece was underwhelming?
There were supposedly years of texting back and forth and the R Kelly line is the only real damaging thing?
The other girls he was with shows that he sucks at relationships, I get that, fine, he sucks.
The 14yo story needs more. If anything this will flush out more people if he's done this with more than one person.
Needless to say I won't be attending his concerts anytime soon until this is cleared up.
They have over 3000 messages between them. There's a good chance they are holding some stuff back. Almost baiting him to come out and deny it before they say, "Gotcha!".
Dude is a piece of shit. I hope they bury him.
Well he's come out already and denied it so let's see the other 3000 text's then. I guess they are holding back for the "follow up" piece the Times plans on running?
If you've got evidence, nail him to the cross.
And the alleged disgusting behavior with, at minimum, the under age girl was done during his marriage to Mandy Moore. I don't know if he was doing this with other fans that he took a particular interest in but that's as good as cheating. So, if true, he is abusive and a POS cheater - don't care if he ever touched her - it breaks all the bonds of a marriage on his end.
Hard to look at his music in the same way.
Actually I wonder if Prisoner had a completely different meaning now?!?
No doubt.
"I know our love is wrong
I am a criminal"
Yikes, lol. I really HOPE that isn't what he was actually singing about. Can you imagine????
Yeah. Shit. Not much different than Louis CK and the way he openly joked about the fucked up shit he was doing.
On a side, but related note, does anyone else find it weird how easily people have turned a blind eye to the likes of Jimmy Page, Bowie, Iggy Pop etc having had sexual relationships with underage girls?
Back in the day - sex, drugs and rock & roll. Groupies were willing partners, drugs and booze were flowing and questions weren't asked. A lot of things have changed since then...and with the absence of complaints from any underaged fans that got with musicians - there's no quid pro quo that can be proven. I hate to say it this way but there was never a shortage of women who wanted to have sex with dudes in bands and no one was showing ID. The laws and moral norms have changed; although I'm sure it still happens with some bands. And many of those artists and their 'partners' have passed away or have just moved on with life with no problems.
Also, there was no internet, cell phones, social media so there are no contemporary records of any interactions.
This is more of a bait and switch situation of 'I'll' help you since you are such an amazing artist' turning into demands for sex and abuse when thwarted and the development of musical or artistic talent was never the true intention.
I'd bet there are fans that were willing participants with him who will not speak up. There had to be some women who wanted what he was offering and that was that.
Comments
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
Pictures/video dont go away just because you delete them
well see
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
The whole thing sucks all around
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
The journalism on this feels a touch sloppy and disjointed. That doesn't make it false, but it does seem like there are some gaps of information.
http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652
it is not accurate nor a good comparison to the issue with Adams, it may seem analogous but it isn't.
http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652
2012: Manchester I, Manchester II, Manchester (EV)
2014: Milan, Leeds, Milton Keynes
2017: London II (EV)
2018: Amsterdam I, London I, Prague, London II
2019: London (EV)
2022: London I, London II, Budapest, Krakow, Amsterdam
What the article was trying to do was show that he is a creep and to not put it past everyone that he could be a pedo, got that.
The article does have holes and I am surprised that out of all the texts from years past the only thing that they have is a comment about being RKelly?
There has to be more. I would also believe that more people will come forward because like in the past other instances of something like this, it doesn't happen once.
There should be more people coming out soon I would guess.
Again though that article by the Times was poorly written.
How was she in any position to DO something without repercussions? If these allegations are true then she was being emotionally abused. How was she in the best position? She was married and living with the guy so if he is indeed an abusive person then she was slowly sucked in and then harmed just as much as any of the others. Emotional abuse can be more harmful to your feelings of self worth than physical abuse. I'd rather get hit everyday than be emotionally abused everyday and I know of what I speak.
When someone causes you to doubt your worth & to lose interest in things that defined who you were, that is just pure evil.
And Moore, the ex-fiancee and the under=age girl at least, stopped pursuing music after their interactions with him. That is having part of yourself stolen. Without your permission. Abusers and narcissists are very good at charming people and drawing them in. If they do not have to interact with people on a regular basis, this can be used as a way of getting people to believe you are sincere. If you are in their everyday life or intimate circle, you have already been sucked in before the bad behavior begins and you have been stripped of your confidence and it can be extremely difficult to break free and then even after they will torment you.
And I don't see how the teen-ager was cat fishing him. She followed him, just as I and I'm sure many of us follow Pearl Jam or the separate members on social media. He followed her back and started to personally interact with her. How is she catfishing him when he is showing up on Skype naked?
The one person who I think got a raw deal in the Me too movement is Al Franken. He was accused by two conservative operatives and the accusations were never vetted before his fellow Democrats pushed him out of the Senate.
He''s been accused by 12 employees and 6 or 7 women. He is not guilty because he has been accused but they do have texts and emails. They worked on the story for 5 years before coming out with it. There may be reasons that they cannot disclose more than they did. Or he may be innocent.
But if you are not going to victim blame, and you don't know how abuse works, then just don't do it.
Dude is a piece of shit. I hope they bury him.
If you've got evidence, nail him to the cross.
Hard to look at his music in the same way.
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
On a side, but related note, does anyone else find it weird how easily people have turned a blind eye to the likes of Jimmy Page, Bowie, Iggy Pop etc having had sexual relationships with underage girls?
I deleted all of his music off my ipad last night. It's still on my hard drive for now, but I just can't stand to look at it.
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
these women were treated this way. There’s no doubt about that. None of this is a stretch if you are a Ryan Adams fan. Everyone has always know he’s a dick but it was excused or ignored because of the music. He’s not the first musician to get the pass or the last. I don’t think this was exclusive to women either. Most of his purely professional relationships ended the same way. Ask The Cardinals. Or Mike Viola etc etc.
This is also getting worse by the minute
Just awful
Also, there was no internet, cell phones, social media so there are no contemporary records of any interactions.
This is more of a bait and switch situation of 'I'll' help you since you are such an amazing artist' turning into demands for sex and abuse when thwarted and the development of musical or artistic talent was never the true intention.
I'd bet there are fans that were willing participants with him who will not speak up. There had to be some women who wanted what he was offering and that was that.