2016 and 2018 Fan Club Singles?

HesCalledDyer said:

on2legs said:

I’ll never understand the anger people have over this issue.  I get the argument that they “owe” us a single because we paid for it, but it really doesn’t matter to me.  And I know people like to harp on a “customer service” argument to make their point.  And people like to say that a properly run business wouldn’t flake out on sending two records that people paid for and that’s true.  

But a properly run business also wouldn’t allow us to buy the best seats in the house for a fraction of what they could fetch on the secondary market.  And a properly run business also doesn’t give us a chance to buy a tour poster here for $35 when it’s going for $600 on eBay (emek Rome among others).  That would make no business sense to practically give these items away when their true market value is hundreds of dollars more. But they do it anyway.  

So I can easily live with them not being a properly run business. 

That is fine that your are 100% complacent with 10 Club's poor practices. That's your choice. The problem is that too many people have given them the same pass over the years, so they continue those poor practices. That, however, doesn't excuse them.  It really doesn't matter what other perks they give us in the meantime. If that offsets the lack of fulfillment for you, that's great. While access to exclusive items and tickets is a membership benefit, the secondary market comparison is completely irrelevant.  When you pay for something, you should receive it within the time frame specified.  Not 2 years later, or possibly never at all. I find it hard to believe that you could "never understand the anger people have over" wanting to get what they paid for years ago.

Look, I love the Ten Club as much as everyone here. I've gotten a lot more good from them than bad.  A lot.  But that doesn't excuse the bad and I don't know why anyone would be satisfied with the bad.

HesCalledDyer said:

on2legs said:

I’ll never understand the anger people have over this issue.  I get the argument that they “owe” us a single because we paid for it, but it really doesn’t matter to me.  And I know people like to harp on a “customer service” argument to make their point.  And people like to say that a properly run business wouldn’t flake out on sending two records that people paid for and that’s true.  

But a properly run business also wouldn’t allow us to buy the best seats in the house for a fraction of what they could fetch on the secondary market.  And a properly run business also doesn’t give us a chance to buy a tour poster here for $35 when it’s going for $600 on eBay (emek Rome among others).  That would make no business sense to practically give these items away when their true market value is hundreds of dollars more. But they do it anyway.  

So I can easily live with them not being a properly run business. 

That is fine that your are 100% complacent with 10 Club's poor practices. That's your choice. The problem is that too many people have given them the same pass over the years, so they continue those poor practices. That, however, doesn't excuse them.  It really doesn't matter what other perks they give us in the meantime. If that offsets the lack of fulfillment for you, that's great. While access to exclusive items and tickets is a membership benefit, the secondary market comparison is completely irrelevant.  When you pay for something, you should receive it within the time frame specified.  Not 2 years later, or possibly never at all. I find it hard to believe that you could "never understand the anger people have over" wanting to get what they paid for years ago.

Look, I love the Ten Club as much as everyone here. I've gotten a lot more good from them than bad.  A lot.  But that doesn't excuse the bad and I don't know why anyone would be satisfied with the bad.

on2legs said:

pjl44 said:

on2legs said:

drummerboy_73 said:

on2legs said:

I’ll never understand the anger people have over this issue.  I get the argument that they “owe” us a single because we paid for it, but it really doesn’t matter to me.  And I know people like to harp on a “customer service” argument to make their point.  And people like to say that a properly run business wouldn’t flake out on sending two records that people paid for and that’s true.  

But a properly run business also wouldn’t allow us to buy the best seats in the house for a fraction of what they could fetch on the secondary market.  And a properly run business also doesn’t give us a chance to buy a tour poster here for $35 when it’s going for $600 on eBay (emek Rome among others).  That would make no business sense to practically give these items away when their true market value is hundreds of dollars more. But they do it anyway.  

So I can easily live with them not being a properly run business. 

I don't care about the prices of things on the secondary market because I don't buy things from the secondary market. I'm not going to commend a band or their business entity for not ripping us off simply because the means and opportunity for them to do so is there. I made a business transaction with Pearl Jam and 10C, one they haven't made good on, and that's the only thing I'm concerned with right now. I don't care about what tickets can go for on the secondary market when the last time they played my city was 13 years ago. I don't care about posters for shows I never went to. I know they do a lot of good outside of the issue I'm addressing - I'll give you that. But those extenuating circumstances have no bearing on the fact that I haven't received goods I've paid for YEARS ago.

Sounds like the makings of a good lawsuit.  

There's a lot of room between being frustrated over not receiving something you paid for 2ish years ago and filing a lawsuit. As long as someone is expressing themselves in a respectful way, there's certainly reason to be annoyed. If they haven't played your area in over a decade, the ticket benefit ain't helping. Nor would the opportunity to buy souvenirs from all the other places they played that aren't your area.

Like you, I'm fine to ride it out but I understand why a lot of people are aggravated. 

Reread some of the posts on here.  People are losing their minds.  

Tiki said:

so many live cuts to choose from.

Why is making 45s so difficult?  I could pick out 2 songs a year for the band.  I'd do it for a small fee, next to nothing.

look

Don't be Shy from 03032003
I Wont Back Down 07092016

pjl44 said:

on2legs said:

pjl44 said:

on2legs said:

drummerboy_73 said:

on2legs said:

I’ll never understand the anger people have over this issue.  I get the argument that they “owe” us a single because we paid for it, but it really doesn’t matter to me.  And I know people like to harp on a “customer service” argument to make their point.  And people like to say that a properly run business wouldn’t flake out on sending two records that people paid for and that’s true.  

But a properly run business also wouldn’t allow us to buy the best seats in the house for a fraction of what they could fetch on the secondary market.  And a properly run business also doesn’t give us a chance to buy a tour poster here for $35 when it’s going for $600 on eBay (emek Rome among others).  That would make no business sense to practically give these items away when their true market value is hundreds of dollars more. But they do it anyway.  

So I can easily live with them not being a properly run business. 

I don't care about the prices of things on the secondary market because I don't buy things from the secondary market. I'm not going to commend a band or their business entity for not ripping us off simply because the means and opportunity for them to do so is there. I made a business transaction with Pearl Jam and 10C, one they haven't made good on, and that's the only thing I'm concerned with right now. I don't care about what tickets can go for on the secondary market when the last time they played my city was 13 years ago. I don't care about posters for shows I never went to. I know they do a lot of good outside of the issue I'm addressing - I'll give you that. But those extenuating circumstances have no bearing on the fact that I haven't received goods I've paid for YEARS ago.

Sounds like the makings of a good lawsuit.  

There's a lot of room between being frustrated over not receiving something you paid for 2ish years ago and filing a lawsuit. As long as someone is expressing themselves in a respectful way, there's certainly reason to be annoyed. If they haven't played your area in over a decade, the ticket benefit ain't helping. Nor would the opportunity to buy souvenirs from all the other places they played that aren't your area.

Like you, I'm fine to ride it out but I understand why a lot of people are aggravated. 

Reread some of the posts on here.  People are losing their minds.  

Oh...for sure. Believe me when I say I have way more contempt for the fan base than 99% of what the band or 10C do. But reasonable people have a legit gripe.

mace1229 said:

Tiki said:

so many live cuts to choose from.

Why is making 45s so difficult?  I could pick out 2 songs a year for the band.  I'd do it for a small fee, next to nothing.

look

Don't be Shy from 03032003
I Wont Back Down 07092016

The problem is no one wants the single to be from official bootlegs already available. And I agree, whats the point in that? I think both of those are. But still lots to chose from, unless they are saving up for some vaults.

HesCalledDyer said:

on2legs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

on2legs said:

I’ll never understand the anger people have over this issue.  I get the argument that they “owe” us a single because we paid for it, but it really doesn’t matter to me.  And I know people like to harp on a “customer service” argument to make their point.  And people like to say that a properly run business wouldn’t flake out on sending two records that people paid for and that’s true.  

But a properly run business also wouldn’t allow us to buy the best seats in the house for a fraction of what they could fetch on the secondary market.  And a properly run business also doesn’t give us a chance to buy a tour poster here for $35 when it’s going for $600 on eBay (emek Rome among others).  That would make no business sense to practically give these items away when their true market value is hundreds of dollars more. But they do it anyway.  

So I can easily live with them not being a properly run business. 

That is fine that your are 100% complacent with 10 Club's poor practices. That's your choice. The problem is that too many people have given them the same pass over the years, so they continue those poor practices. That, however, doesn't excuse them.  It really doesn't matter what other perks they give us in the meantime. If that offsets the lack of fulfillment for you, that's great. While access to exclusive items and tickets is a membership benefit, the secondary market comparison is completely irrelevant.  When you pay for something, you should receive it within the time frame specified.  Not 2 years later, or possibly never at all. I find it hard to believe that you could "never understand the anger people have over" wanting to get what they paid for years ago.

Look, I love the Ten Club as much as everyone here. I've gotten a lot more good from them than bad.  A lot.  But that doesn't excuse the bad and I don't know why anyone would be satisfied with the bad.

Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. 

If Ten Club were perfect, they would have fulfilled their membership benefits on time, every time. They have failed to do that several years. Again, the surplus of good things don’t excuse the bad.

on2legs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

on2legs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

on2legs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

on2legs said:

I’ll never understand the anger people have over this issue.  I get the argument that they “owe” us a single because we paid for it, but it really doesn’t matter to me.  And I know people like to harp on a “customer service” argument to make their point.  And people like to say that a properly run business wouldn’t flake out on sending two records that people paid for and that’s true.  

But a properly run business also wouldn’t allow us to buy the best seats in the house for a fraction of what they could fetch on the secondary market.  And a properly run business also doesn’t give us a chance to buy a tour poster here for $35 when it’s going for $600 on eBay (emek Rome among others).  That would make no business sense to practically give these items away when their true market value is hundreds of dollars more. But they do it anyway.  

So I can easily live with them not being a properly run business. 

That is fine that your are 100% complacent with 10 Club's poor practices. That's your choice. The problem is that too many people have given them the same pass over the years, so they continue those poor practices. That, however, doesn't excuse them.  It really doesn't matter what other perks they give us in the meantime. If that offsets the lack of fulfillment for you, that's great. While access to exclusive items and tickets is a membership benefit, the secondary market comparison is completely irrelevant.  When you pay for something, you should receive it within the time frame specified.  Not 2 years later, or possibly never at all. I find it hard to believe that you could "never understand the anger people have over" wanting to get what they paid for years ago.

Look, I love the Ten Club as much as everyone here. I've gotten a lot more good from them than bad.  A lot.  But that doesn't excuse the bad and I don't know why anyone would be satisfied with the bad.

Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. 

If Ten Club were perfect, they would have fulfilled their membership benefits on time, every time. They have failed to do that several years. Again, the surplus of good things don’t excuse the bad.

  You misunderstood that quote (I didn't make it up by the way).  The ten club (nor I) are most certainly not perfect.  My point was that people demanding perfection in everything the ten club does run the risk of all the good (and more important) things the ten club does for us being undervalued and overlooked.

"Aristotle, Confucius, and other classical philosophers propounded the principle of the golden mean which counsels against extremism in general.[4] The Pareto principle or 80–20 rule explains this numerically. For example, it commonly takes 20% of the full time to complete 80% of a task while to complete the last 20% of a task takes 80% of the effort.[5] Achieving absolute perfection may be impossible and so, as increasing effort results in diminishing returns, further activity becomes increasingly inefficient. Robert Watson-Watt, who developed early warning radar in Britain to counter the rapid growth of the Luftwaffe, propounded a "cult of the imperfect", which he stated as "Give them the third best to go on with; the second best comes too late, the best never comes."

Yes, I misread it. Flipped them around.
And I don’t undervalue or overlook all the good. I’ve stated that. But their bad isn’t just bad, it’s reeeeeaaally bad. 

Yeah... but they’re good at all the important things. The single, while promised, is not anywhere the big deal people are making it out to be.