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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,840
    This is long but a good read....I've read a bunch but then skimmed, will have to go back later.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/10/magazine/the-democrats-have-an-immigration-problem.html


    hippiemom = goodness
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    As long as I can remember immigration has been a hot topic in US politics.  I can not see how you will ever solve your immigration problems as long as all the southern countries below you remain poor.  Maybe it would be better if we could somehow start to work with the governments of these countries to lift them out of poverty.  Of course, this is not in the best interest of corporate America.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,884
    Meltdown99 said:
    As long as I can remember immigration has been a hot topic in US politics.  I can not see how you will ever solve your immigration problems as long as all the southern countries below you remain poor.  Maybe it would be better if we could somehow start to work with the governments of these countries to lift them out of poverty.  Of course, this is not in the best interest of corporate America.
    Even some moderate Republicans have advocated what's known as the "Marshall Plan" for central America.  Attack the root of the reason why they want to migrate.  Help the third world develop.  NAFTA has done that with Mexico, but Central America has not seen a similar benefit I don't believe.  
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    edited January 2019
    Meltdown99 said:
    As long as I can remember immigration has been a hot topic in US politics.  I can not see how you will ever solve your immigration problems as long as all the southern countries below you remain poor.  Maybe it would be better if we could somehow start to work with the governments of these countries to lift them out of poverty.  Of course, this is not in the best interest of corporate America.
    Makes sense to me.  I've heard this idea from various sources for many years but not seen any movement that way.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Trump says he ‘never said’ Mexico would pay for the wall. But he did – a lot
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4833557/trump-mexico-border-wall-write-a-cheque/?utm_source=GlobalToronto&utm_medium=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1hJEnAa_dg07YPNwUrY_CedZm4AsI_WMrnMuXEZ9ucLcUQaRmtjcYJs9Q

    Man, he is dumb as dog shit, every news outlet in the world has footage of you saying it daily.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,474
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    As long as I can remember immigration has been a hot topic in US politics.  I can not see how you will ever solve your immigration problems as long as all the southern countries below you remain poor.  Maybe it would be better if we could somehow start to work with the governments of these countries to lift them out of poverty.  Of course, this is not in the best interest of corporate America.
    Makes sense to me.  I've heard this idea from various sources for many years but not seen any movement that way.
    I brought this up a while back.  I considered the US "meddling" in south Americas affairs in order to bring them around but maybe it's just not possible.

    Look at Haiti.  You can throw as much money as you want at that country and it's still corrupt.

    A whole lot needs to change before they turn good.


  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    As long as I can remember immigration has been a hot topic in US politics.  I can not see how you will ever solve your immigration problems as long as all the southern countries below you remain poor.  Maybe it would be better if we could somehow start to work with the governments of these countries to lift them out of poverty.  Of course, this is not in the best interest of corporate America.
    Makes sense to me.  I've heard this idea from various sources for many years but not seen any movement that way.
    I brought this up a while back.  I considered the US "meddling" in south Americas affairs in order to bring them around but maybe it's just not possible.

    Look at Haiti.  You can throw as much money as you want at that country and it's still corrupt.

    A whole lot needs to change before they turn good.


    Agreed, got to get rid of corruption in those countries.  Not easily done, I can only image how much cartel money in Mexico is spent to bribe government officials.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,684
    Yeah that’s a daunting task to bring Central America out of corruption..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    josevolution said:
    Yeah that’s a daunting task to bring Central America out of corruption..
    You are correct.  It would be at least worth trying.  We can not bring every poor person from Mexico/CA/SA north?
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,694
    edited January 2019
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    As long as I can remember immigration has been a hot topic in US politics.  I can not see how you will ever solve your immigration problems as long as all the southern countries below you remain poor.  Maybe it would be better if we could somehow start to work with the governments of these countries to lift them out of poverty.  Of course, this is not in the best interest of corporate America.
    Makes sense to me.  I've heard this idea from various sources for many years but not seen any movement that way.
    I would think that any other country would be extremely wary of this idea, considering how badly America has managed to fuck over so many countries, like in the Middle East. I bet a lot of people in Central and South America are terrified of the idea of America meddling in their affairs, no matter how bad shit already is there. They have NO reason to trust America to do anything other than enrich the rich and enable dictators, really. What America should do is let other nations evolve on their own. Stick to just helpful trade agreements (that won't happen under Trump, but later). You CANNOT force any other country out of corruption or or force actual democracy on them or anything like that. People need to find their own way as far as I can tell.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598

    www.myspace.com
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    josevolution said:
    brianlux said:
    Check it out- Roger Waters is considering performing The Wall at the U.S./Mexican border.  That would be something!

    Oh man that would truly be great I’d consider trying to attend , if only he could be there today performing it on the Mexico side ..

    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,884
    The evidence before the court is
    Incontrovertible, there's no need for
    The jury to retire
    In all my years of judging
    I have never heard before
    Of someone more deserving
    Of the full penalty of law
    The way you made them suffer
    Your exquisite wife and mother
    Fills me with the urge to defecate
    Since, my friend, you have revealed your
    Deepest fear
    I sentence you to be exposed before
    Your peers
    Tear down the wall
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    mrussel1 said:
    The evidence before the court is
    Incontrovertible, there's no need for
    The jury to retire
    In all my years of judging
    I have never heard before
    Of someone more deserving
    Of the full penalty of law
    The way you made them suffer
    Your exquisite wife and mother
    Fills me with the urge to defecate

    Since, my friend, you have revealed your
    Deepest fear
    I sentence you to be exposed before
    Your peers
    Tear down the wall
    Fitting! Tear down the wall!

    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927

  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,474
    CM189191 said:

    Well apparently MSNBC was in the same place later that night...
    https://www.msn.com/it-it/video/guarda/woman-filmed-climbing-over-border-wall-in-tijuana/vp-BBRyZTk
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,474
    The Juggler said:

    I was wondering what this was until I finally saw the story.

    So this is what the proposed border wall will be made of.  They said they cut through it with a saw.

    It looks to me like a torch did it but a saw could definitely cut through this too.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,474
    tempo_n_groove said:
    The Juggler said:

    I was wondering what this was until I finally saw the story.

    So this is what the proposed border wall will be made of.  They said they cut through it with a saw.

    It looks to me like a torch did it but a saw could definitely cut through this too.
    The story.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/test-steel-prototype-border-wall-showed-it-could-be-sawed-n956856
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    As long as I can remember immigration has been a hot topic in US politics.  I can not see how you will ever solve your immigration problems as long as all the southern countries below you remain poor.  Maybe it would be better if we could somehow start to work with the governments of these countries to lift them out of poverty.  Of course, this is not in the best interest of corporate America.
    Makes sense to me.  I've heard this idea from various sources for many years but not seen any movement that way.
    I brought this up a while back.  I considered the US "meddling" in south Americas affairs in order to bring them around but maybe it's just not possible.

    Look at Haiti.  You can throw as much money as you want at that country and it's still corrupt.

    A whole lot needs to change before they turn good.


    I honestly don't know what it would take to make it work.  Edward Abbey once suggested giving every immigrant from south of the border a can of beans and a rifle and send them home.   I think he was talking metaphorically but those words cost him a lot of grief.  But I'm just not sure the umpteenth revolution is going to make a difference.  I think it has to be education, (including teaching birth control)  and having organizations that assist in countries developing their own agriculture in order to move toward self-sufficiency. 

    And sharing cultures.  That's a great way to help end the hate.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    tempo_n_groove said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    The Juggler said:

    I was wondering what this was until I finally saw the story.

    So this is what the proposed border wall will be made of.  They said they cut through it with a saw.

    It looks to me like a torch did it but a saw could definitely cut through this too.
    The story.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/test-steel-prototype-border-wall-showed-it-could-be-sawed-n956856
    These need to be cut low enough to allow animal migration.  Let's please not forget that one of the other horrors of the Fucking Wall is the disruption of animal migration.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

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