14 years and counting...

CM189191

tempo_n_groove said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

This wall business has me fuming this morning.  That 6 billion dollars could go toward education, both here and south of the border.  Education is the key to solving so many problems.  That may sound over-simplified (and to a degree it is) but basically I think it's true.  But no, half this crazy country wants to use that money to build a stinkin' wall. 

I need a punching bag this morning.  Or maybe go out to the garage and break some shit. 

Naaah, I gotta get to work! 

I had a friend in high school who used to say 'run school like a prison, get prison problems'

Educate people and provide decent health care and society will thrive.

Build walls and create a surveillance state, well....just look at how peaceful Israel is

If they loosen up on the immigration rules maybe less people would come across illegally?  I don't know.

The wall is supposed to be a deterrent and to enter through legal means.

Comparing it to Israels wall is a wee bit different as our neighbors below aren't sending mortars over and we aren't retaliating or vice versa.

We have had a wall for years, people are still coming over.  Lather, rinse, wash repeat.

*yet*

didn't we just fire a bunch of rubber bullets and tear gas across the border like that was an ok thing to do?

CM189191

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1083797038326792192

ruskies must have serious dirt on Graham

Kat

The Juggler said:

And for refugees who can't afford all that, I can visualize a nice rope ladder to enter the U.S., find an agent and request asylum. Now we need more judges to process those very legal requests that are supposed to happen at ports of entry.

Halifax2TheMax

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

This wall business has me fuming this morning.  That 6 billion dollars could go toward education, both here and south of the border.  Education is the key to solving so many problems.  That may sound over-simplified (and to a degree it is) but basically I think it's true.  But no, half this crazy country wants to use that money to build a stinkin' wall. 

I need a punching bag this morning.  Or maybe go out to the garage and break some shit. 

Naaah, I gotta get to work! 

Well my state, CO, which has a teacher salary about 20% below the average, just voted down a very small tax increase that would increase education funding. It was something like 015% only to those who make over 100k. And it failed miserably. Wasn't even close. So that 5 billion won't be going to education. Parents don't want to fund their kid's education, but expect more and more from schools.

This is the part that consistently gets me.

Further... once many people have no direct need for the schools... their levels of support wane from barely adequate to zero.

Don't get me wrong: there are many great and supportive people backing schools and teachers. But there are far too many that simply don't get it.

All part of the repub’s philosophy of there not being any common good unless you look like them, pray like them, have sex or procreate like them, earn like them or want to go to war like them.

Halifax2TheMax

CM189191 said:

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1083797038326792192

ruskies must have serious dirt on Graham

Quadrupling down. They really do think the majority of Americans are stupid.  Team Trump Treason could have had the funding a year, six months and a month or so ago. A year ago, Paul Ryan thought a tax cut to the tune of $1.2 trillion was more of a priority. And here we are. Not listening to the experts on cost and effectiveness is to be separated from reality. Suckers.
 

oftenreading

Halifax2TheMax said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

This wall business has me fuming this morning.  That 6 billion dollars could go toward education, both here and south of the border.  Education is the key to solving so many problems.  That may sound over-simplified (and to a degree it is) but basically I think it's true.  But no, half this crazy country wants to use that money to build a stinkin' wall. 

I need a punching bag this morning.  Or maybe go out to the garage and break some shit. 

Naaah, I gotta get to work! 

Well my state, CO, which has a teacher salary about 20% below the average, just voted down a very small tax increase that would increase education funding. It was something like 015% only to those who make over 100k. And it failed miserably. Wasn't even close. So that 5 billion won't be going to education. Parents don't want to fund their kid's education, but expect more and more from schools.

This is the part that consistently gets me.

Further... once many people have no direct need for the schools... their levels of support wane from barely adequate to zero.

Don't get me wrong: there are many great and supportive people backing schools and teachers. But there are far too many that simply don't get it.

All part of the repub’s philosophy of there not being any common good unless you look like them, pray like them, have sex or procreate like them, earn like them or want to go to war like them.

“Have sex like them” just gave me a nasty shudder. 

brianlux

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

This wall business has me fuming this morning.  That 6 billion dollars could go toward education, both here and south of the border.  Education is the key to solving so many problems.  That may sound over-simplified (and to a degree it is) but basically I think it's true.  But no, half this crazy country wants to use that money to build a stinkin' wall. 

I need a punching bag this morning.  Or maybe go out to the garage and break some shit. 

Naaah, I gotta get to work! 

I had a friend in high school who used to say 'run school like a prison, get prison problems'

Educate people and provide decent health care and society will thrive.

Build walls and create a surveillance state, well....just look at how peaceful Israel is

I couldn't agree more.  And we need more than just more education.  We need better education.  Teach people critical thinking.  Teach integrated curriculum to reflect how life really is.  Teach not just numbers and letters but creativity, fun and cooperation.

Halifax2TheMax

I guess folks really don’t want a wall after all.

https://apple.news/ARYPTqOB4SYuQBmVUMzcXZw

Bentleyspop

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1083796514680569860?s=19

PJ_Soul

So.... What does that mean? That Trump can basically pickpocket the Army Corps of Engineers for the money instead of getting Congress to approve funding? Or does that mean something else?

josevolution

PJ_Soul said:

So.... What does that mean? That Trump can basically pickpocket the Army Corps of Engineers for the money instead of getting Congress to approve funding? Or does that mean something else?

The one thing it damn sure means is that Mexico ain't paying for shit ! 

Halifax2TheMax

Bentleyspop said:

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1083796514680569860?s=19

How much you want to bet that levee improvements in and around New Orleans take a hit? Or and projects in Dem districts/states?

josevolution

Please please the powers that be make this individual go away that's the nicest way i can put it ...

Vedd Hedd

josevolution said:

Please please the powers that be make this individual go away that's the nicest way i can put it ...

He IS the powers that be.... 

:(

brianlux

Vedd Hedd said:

josevolution said:

Please please the powers that be make this individual go away that's the nicest way i can put it ...

He IS the powers that be.... 

:(

He isn't all-powerful but he has made sure his cabinet is made up of people who will do his bidding, plus he seems to have the senate majority in his pocket, and there are an amazingly large number of very either stupid, naive, or crazy people who think he's the greatest.  And that's what concerns me the most- the fact that there are enough people going along with and supporting the gag such that it very much appears that we are living in a very disturbing and fucked up time in history. 

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

This wall business has me fuming this morning.  That 6 billion dollars could go toward education, both here and south of the border.  Education is the key to solving so many problems.  That may sound over-simplified (and to a degree it is) but basically I think it's true.  But no, half this crazy country wants to use that money to build a stinkin' wall. 

I need a punching bag this morning.  Or maybe go out to the garage and break some shit. 

Naaah, I gotta get to work! 

Well my state, CO, which has a teacher salary about 20% below the average, just voted down a very small tax increase that would increase education funding. It was something like 015% only to those who make over 100k. And it failed miserably. Wasn't even close. So that 5 billion won't be going to education. Parents don't want to fund their kid's education, but expect more and more from schools.

Why don’t you move? Go somewhere else? Places the repubs tell you where the opportunity lies? Pick yourself up by the bootstraps? Yet, you don’t and you wonder, why?

oftenreading

For those who said that those in the caravan weren't really asylum-seekers, just people looking to scam the system in the US:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/nelson-espinal-death-deported-migrant-caravan-us-border-honduras

'A death sentence': migrant caravan member killed in Honduras after US sent him back

Fleeing threats, Nelson Espinal traveled to the US. One week after he was deported, he was shot dead

Jeff Ernst in Tegucigalpa

Several days after Nelson Espinal slipped across the US southern border, he called his family back in Honduras from inside a US detention center.

“Tell Mom not to worry – I’m applying for asylum,” Espinal, 28, told his sister Patricia, who recounted the December phone call with tears streaming down her sun-scarred cheeks. “We must pray to God that they give it to me. I told them I can’t go back to Honduras because if I go back, they’re going to kill me.”

Espinal had made the 4,900km journey with several thousand others who joined the migrant caravan in October in the hopes of starting a new life.

Within weeks of reaching the US, however, he was deported back to his gang-infested neighborhood in the Honduran capital Tegucigalpa – and the death threats that had prompted him to flee.

He resolved to try his luck again in the new year: head north, save his life and find a way to help his family and provide for his seven-year-old son.

But just over a week after his return, Nelson was shot dead on the street outside his home on 18 December 2018.

Despite a recent drop in homicide rates in Honduras and neighboring countries, Espinal’s murder is a sharp reminder that for many people in the region, the decision to migrate is one of life or death.

A ruling last June by the then US attorney general Jeff Sessions made it all but impossible for victims of gang violence like Espinal to obtain asylum. And as a new migrant caravan prepares to set off from Honduras on Tuesday, more will probably suffer the same fate.

Espinal lived with his parents, four sisters and son in a rough shack in the José Ángel Ulloa neighborhood. High in the mountains that cup the city centre, the area is dominated by the notorious MS-13 gang.

In cities across Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, gangs terrorize residents into submission and recruit young people by force or coercion, promising “work” for youths who have little prospect of finding formal employment – and threatening death for those who refuse.

“When they get their eye on someone, they search them out again and again,” said Patricia Espinal.

The gangs had tried to recruit her brother since he was a teenager, but he had steadfastly resisted. “They’re asking if I want to work with him,” she recalled him saying. “[But] I’d rather have rough hands [from manual labor] than join a gang.”

So when news broke last October that a large group of migrants was planning to head north from the city of San Pedro Sula, Espinal and a pair of friends rushed to join the caravan, calculating that there would be safety in numbers.

It was unprecedented for such a large number to set out together, and Espinal believed the caravan offered the perfect opportunity to escape. In the end, however, the violence that has plagued Honduras for more than a decade proved inescapable...

(continued in article)

brianlux

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

This wall business has me fuming this morning.  That 6 billion dollars could go toward education, both here and south of the border.  Education is the key to solving so many problems.  That may sound over-simplified (and to a degree it is) but basically I think it's true.  But no, half this crazy country wants to use that money to build a stinkin' wall. 

I need a punching bag this morning.  Or maybe go out to the garage and break some shit. 

Naaah, I gotta get to work! 

Well my state, CO, which has a teacher salary about 20% below the average, just voted down a very small tax increase that would increase education funding. It was something like 015% only to those who make over 100k. And it failed miserably. Wasn't even close. So that 5 billion won't be going to education. Parents don't want to fund their kid's education, but expect more and more from schools.

I'm guessing you are writing letters and calling your representatives to voice your opinion about this.  If so, great!  If not...

tempo_n_groove

oftenreading said:

For those who said that those in the caravan weren't really asylum-seekers, just people looking to scam the system in the US:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/nelson-espinal-death-deported-migrant-caravan-us-border-honduras

'A death sentence': migrant caravan member killed in Honduras after US sent him back

Fleeing threats, Nelson Espinal traveled to the US. One week after he was deported, he was shot dead

Jeff Ernst in Tegucigalpa

Several days after Nelson Espinal slipped across the US southern border, he called his family back in Honduras from inside a US detention center.

“Tell Mom not to worry – I’m applying for asylum,” Espinal, 28, told his sister Patricia, who recounted the December phone call with tears streaming down her sun-scarred cheeks. “We must pray to God that they give it to me. I told them I can’t go back to Honduras because if I go back, they’re going to kill me.”

Espinal had made the 4,900km journey with several thousand others who joined the migrant caravan in October in the hopes of starting a new life.

Within weeks of reaching the US, however, he was deported back to his gang-infested neighborhood in the Honduran capital Tegucigalpa – and the death threats that had prompted him to flee.

He resolved to try his luck again in the new year: head north, save his life and find a way to help his family and provide for his seven-year-old son.

But just over a week after his return, Nelson was shot dead on the street outside his home on 18 December 2018.

Despite a recent drop in homicide rates in Honduras and neighboring countries, Espinal’s murder is a sharp reminder that for many people in the region, the decision to migrate is one of life or death.

A ruling last June by the then US attorney general Jeff Sessions made it all but impossible for victims of gang violence like Espinal to obtain asylum. And as a new migrant caravan prepares to set off from Honduras on Tuesday, more will probably suffer the same fate.

Espinal lived with his parents, four sisters and son in a rough shack in the José Ángel Ulloa neighborhood. High in the mountains that cup the city centre, the area is dominated by the notorious MS-13 gang.

In cities across Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, gangs terrorize residents into submission and recruit young people by force or coercion, promising “work” for youths who have little prospect of finding formal employment – and threatening death for those who refuse.

“When they get their eye on someone, they search them out again and again,” said Patricia Espinal.

The gangs had tried to recruit her brother since he was a teenager, but he had steadfastly resisted. “They’re asking if I want to work with him,” she recalled him saying. “[But] I’d rather have rough hands [from manual labor] than join a gang.”

So when news broke last October that a large group of migrants was planning to head north from the city of San Pedro Sula, Espinal and a pair of friends rushed to join the caravan, calculating that there would be safety in numbers.

It was unprecedented for such a large number to set out together, and Espinal believed the caravan offered the perfect opportunity to escape. In the end, however, the violence that has plagued Honduras for more than a decade proved inescapable...

(continued in article)

They need to find more of this happening unfortunately to pull at the heart strings of people.  Only one example/death won't change peoples minds...

Something else.  The article says "violence plagued Honduras for more than a decade".  I can remember meeting people that fled from there 25 years ago.  It seems this has been going on for so long people might not know any better which is just horrible.

Take the wall money and put it into processing people faster, let them all in, yep all of them, but they aren't allowed benefits of welfare, let them find work and give them a probationary period to become a full time citizen.

Allowing them no benefits is harsh but would appease the right and them seeking out work would show that they aren't an anchor to the community.

Thoughts?

Meltdown99

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

For those who said that those in the caravan weren't really asylum-seekers, just people looking to scam the system in the US:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/nelson-espinal-death-deported-migrant-caravan-us-border-honduras

'A death sentence': migrant caravan member killed in Honduras after US sent him back

Fleeing threats, Nelson Espinal traveled to the US. One week after he was deported, he was shot dead

Jeff Ernst in Tegucigalpa

Several days after Nelson Espinal slipped across the US southern border, he called his family back in Honduras from inside a US detention center.

“Tell Mom not to worry – I’m applying for asylum,” Espinal, 28, told his sister Patricia, who recounted the December phone call with tears streaming down her sun-scarred cheeks. “We must pray to God that they give it to me. I told them I can’t go back to Honduras because if I go back, they’re going to kill me.”

Espinal had made the 4,900km journey with several thousand others who joined the migrant caravan in October in the hopes of starting a new life.

Within weeks of reaching the US, however, he was deported back to his gang-infested neighborhood in the Honduran capital Tegucigalpa – and the death threats that had prompted him to flee.

He resolved to try his luck again in the new year: head north, save his life and find a way to help his family and provide for his seven-year-old son.

But just over a week after his return, Nelson was shot dead on the street outside his home on 18 December 2018.

Despite a recent drop in homicide rates in Honduras and neighboring countries, Espinal’s murder is a sharp reminder that for many people in the region, the decision to migrate is one of life or death.

A ruling last June by the then US attorney general Jeff Sessions made it all but impossible for victims of gang violence like Espinal to obtain asylum. And as a new migrant caravan prepares to set off from Honduras on Tuesday, more will probably suffer the same fate.

Espinal lived with his parents, four sisters and son in a rough shack in the José Ángel Ulloa neighborhood. High in the mountains that cup the city centre, the area is dominated by the notorious MS-13 gang.

In cities across Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, gangs terrorize residents into submission and recruit young people by force or coercion, promising “work” for youths who have little prospect of finding formal employment – and threatening death for those who refuse.

“When they get their eye on someone, they search them out again and again,” said Patricia Espinal.

The gangs had tried to recruit her brother since he was a teenager, but he had steadfastly resisted. “They’re asking if I want to work with him,” she recalled him saying. “[But] I’d rather have rough hands [from manual labor] than join a gang.”

So when news broke last October that a large group of migrants was planning to head north from the city of San Pedro Sula, Espinal and a pair of friends rushed to join the caravan, calculating that there would be safety in numbers.

It was unprecedented for such a large number to set out together, and Espinal believed the caravan offered the perfect opportunity to escape. In the end, however, the violence that has plagued Honduras for more than a decade proved inescapable...

(continued in article)

They need to find more of this happening unfortunately to pull at the heart strings of people.  Only one example/death won't change peoples minds...

Something else.  The article says "violence plagued Honduras for more than a decade".  I can remember meeting people that fled from there 25 years ago.  It seems this has been going on for so long people might not know any better which is just horrible.

Take the wall money and put it into processing people faster, let them all in, yep all of them, but they aren't allowed benefits of welfare, let them find work and give them a probationary period to become a full time citizen.

Allowing them no benefits is harsh but would appease the right and them seeking out work would show that they aren't an anchor to the community.

Thoughts?

So are you saying, anyone who shows up at the border let in?