Kavanaugh

Halifax2TheMax said:

So, Team Trump Treason, the trice married, multiple extramartial affair having, pussy grabbing POTUS, child molesting senate candidate endorser, whose Director of Communications, Jason Miller, during the campaign, has been accused of impregnating his mistress and giving her an abortion inducing pill, sending her to the emergency room, whose Supreme Court nominee is defended in the Senate confirmation hearings by Senator Chuck Grassley, whose Director of Communications resigned because of sexual harrassment allegations and who knew prevously to the second woman coming forward with her allegation, that she was out there, waiting to come forward, tried to rush the confirmation vote and some on here are doubting the women's stories as they relate to Kavanaugh and believe they may be false allegations? Do I have that right? Laughable.

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?

My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.

And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not  100%, especially where politics are concerned. 

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides. 

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

 explain to me, if you will, how exactly his life would be ruined by not getting THIS lifetime appointment when he already has one? If its reputation , thats something that can be repaired wth contrition or if tge accusations are false, once the truth is revealed.

what he potentially goes through will fall far far far short of what these women will be forced to endure for speaking up.

I don't know, I just tend to think that sexual crimes reported on at the national/international level would suck pretty bad. And how is the truth revealed in a case of wrongful accusations of this nature? it's like proving there is no god. unless the accuser admits to lying, there is no "truth will come out". 

I hate having to say this so often, but it seems to be necessary: I'm not defending this guy. I'm guessing he did what she is accusing him of.

But it just seems to me that no one gives a fuck if she's lying. it's "oh well, he's still a judge, men have been assholes for centuries, so if this one is collateral damage, so be it".  I just think that's a dangerous road to go down. 

I, for one, DON'T really give a fuck.  
On a personal level, yeah, I do.  
But on a broader, philosophical and societal level...nope don't give a fuck.
This guy is the epitome of white privilege and advantage.  As I mentioned earlier in the thread, none of these accusations are "ruining lives".  They are ending the careers of men who have made enough money to live comfortably for generations.  I find it hard to care if their reputation takes a hit when they belong to elite societies that will never truly abandon them.

You talk about a dangerous road to go down... What about the dangerous road we've been down for the last few thousand years?  The dangerous road where women are raped and then are damn lucky just to avoid punishment and blame for their own victimisation, let alone see justice.
We have been on this dangerous road for eons and if we take a different road that's dangerous for the previous benefactors...well...I just don't have many fucks to give.

the goal here shouldn't be to swing all the way the other way. the goal should be to end up in the middle. 

I thought justice was supposed to be blind, not "blind unless he's white and rich". 

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

I have to laugh at all the white men here who are practically shaking in their boots at the idea that things might shift away from the outrageous advantage they've had for literally thousands of years.
If I don't laugh, I'll be grinding my teeth.

Who is shaking in their boots?

im already starting the #meneither movement. For any guy that has never come even close to anything like it seems some of these creeps have been doing. 

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

I have to laugh at all the white men here who are practically shaking in their boots at the idea that things might shift away from the outrageous advantage they've had for literally thousands of years.
If I don't laugh, I'll be grinding my teeth.

Who is shaking in their boots?

im already starting the #meneither movement. For any guy that has never come even close to anything like it seems some of these creeps have been doing. 

You are, and #meneither proves it lol

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?

My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.

And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not  100%, especially where politics are concerned. 

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides. 

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

 explain to me, if you will, how exactly his life would be ruined by not getting THIS lifetime appointment when he already has one? If its reputation , thats something that can be repaired wth contrition or if tge accusations are false, once the truth is revealed.

what he potentially goes through will fall far far far short of what these women will be forced to endure for speaking up.

I don't know, I just tend to think that sexual crimes reported on at the national/international level would suck pretty bad. And how is the truth revealed in a case of wrongful accusations of this nature? it's like proving there is no god. unless the accuser admits to lying, there is no "truth will come out". 

I hate having to say this so often, but it seems to be necessary: I'm not defending this guy. I'm guessing he did what she is accusing him of.

But it just seems to me that no one gives a fuck if she's lying. it's "oh well, he's still a judge, men have been assholes for centuries, so if this one is collateral damage, so be it".  I just think that's a dangerous road to go down. 

Exactly how I feel.
If proven to be untrue, it will be talked about for 15 minutes then forgotten. And he will always be known as the judge who didn't get nominated for this. If true I don't feel bad for him at all, but if not, this would be horrible to go through. Yes, abused women had to endure much worse, but that doesn't have anything to do with railroading someone.
I don't get the attitude of "o well, he's already a judge so whats the harm." I agree it is a dangerous road.

I have no clue why you think proven false accusations would be talked about for 15 minutes and then forgotten.

But in any case, yup, someone getting hurt by false allegations is horrible. I ABSOLUTELY care about such instances... But I'm not sure what in the world people want here. At this moment there is no reason at all to assume they are false accusations, but the possibility of them being false is the MAIN topic of conversation. If these are not false accusations, which is much more likely than the reverse, that's way, way, WAY more disgusting than Kavanaugh not getting this SCOTUS seat.

So what exactly are you looking for here?? Is there some third option that I'm not aware of, in a dimension where life is always fair? 

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

I have to laugh at all the white men here who are practically shaking in their boots at the idea that things might shift away from the outrageous advantage they've had for literally thousands of years.
If I don't laugh, I'll be grinding my teeth.

Who is shaking in their boots?

im already starting the #meneither movement. For any guy that has never come even close to anything like it seems some of these creeps have been doing. 

You are, and #meneither proves it lol

A joke proves I'm a closet sexual assaulter just waiting to be caught?  Get out of here.

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

I have to laugh at all the white men here who are practically shaking in their boots at the idea that things might shift away from the outrageous advantage they've had for literally thousands of years.
If I don't laugh, I'll be grinding my teeth.

Who is shaking in their boots?

im already starting the #meneither movement. For any guy that has never come even close to anything like it seems some of these creeps have been doing. 

You are, and #meneither proves it lol

A joke proves I'm a closet sexual assaulter just waiting to be caught?  Get out of here.

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?

My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.

And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not  100%, especially where politics are concerned. 

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides. 

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

 explain to me, if you will, how exactly his life would be ruined by not getting THIS lifetime appointment when he already has one? If its reputation , thats something that can be repaired wth contrition or if tge accusations are false, once the truth is revealed.

what he potentially goes through will fall far far far short of what these women will be forced to endure for speaking up.

I don't know, I just tend to think that sexual crimes reported on at the national/international level would suck pretty bad. And how is the truth revealed in a case of wrongful accusations of this nature? it's like proving there is no god. unless the accuser admits to lying, there is no "truth will come out". 

I hate having to say this so often, but it seems to be necessary: I'm not defending this guy. I'm guessing he did what she is accusing him of.

But it just seems to me that no one gives a fuck if she's lying. it's "oh well, he's still a judge, men have been assholes for centuries, so if this one is collateral damage, so be it".  I just think that's a dangerous road to go down. 

Exactly how I feel.
If proven to be untrue, it will be talked about for 15 minutes then forgotten. And he will always be known as the judge who didn't get nominated for this. If true I don't feel bad for him at all, but if not, this would be horrible to go through. Yes, abused women had to endure much worse, but that doesn't have anything to do with railroading someone.
I don't get the attitude of "o well, he's already a judge so whats the harm." I agree it is a dangerous road.

I have no clue why you think proven false accusations would be talked about for 15 minutes and then forgotten.

But in any case, yup, someone getting hurt by false allegations is horrible. I ABSOLUTELY care about such instances... But I'm not sure what in the world people want here. At this moment there is no reason at all to assume they are false accusations, but the possibility of them being false is the MAIN topic of conversation. If these are not false accusations, which is much more likely than the reverse, that's way, way, WAY more disgusting than Kavanaugh not getting this SCOTUS seat.

So what exactly are you looking for here?? Is there some third option that I'm not aware of, in a dimension where life is always fair? 

I do see a third option.
Camp A: It seems many have the side of he's been accused, that is enough to disqualify him. 
Camp B: Another camp is this was long, he was young, its been almost 40 years, let him be a judge.

I actually think Camp B is uncommon. Although that has been cited constantly by those who want him disqualifies, very few are actually saying that. Far more are what I consider Camp C: delay a vote until a hearing takes places and testimony if weighed and the facts are researched. Then decide if he is qualified. I don't think you need the same level of evidence that a criminal case needs to disqualify him, far less. But many seem to want to skip that phase and go straight to disqualifying.

And yes, I do think if they are proven untrue it will make far less news than what it already has. Not even close.

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?

My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.

And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not  100%, especially where politics are concerned. 

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides. 

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

 explain to me, if you will, how exactly his life would be ruined by not getting THIS lifetime appointment when he already has one? If its reputation , thats something that can be repaired wth contrition or if tge accusations are false, once the truth is revealed.

what he potentially goes through will fall far far far short of what these women will be forced to endure for speaking up.

I don't know, I just tend to think that sexual crimes reported on at the national/international level would suck pretty bad. And how is the truth revealed in a case of wrongful accusations of this nature? it's like proving there is no god. unless the accuser admits to lying, there is no "truth will come out". 

I hate having to say this so often, but it seems to be necessary: I'm not defending this guy. I'm guessing he did what she is accusing him of.

But it just seems to me that no one gives a fuck if she's lying. it's "oh well, he's still a judge, men have been assholes for centuries, so if this one is collateral damage, so be it".  I just think that's a dangerous road to go down. 

I, for one, DON'T really give a fuck.  
On a personal level, yeah, I do.  
But on a broader, philosophical and societal level...nope don't give a fuck.
This guy is the epitome of white privilege and advantage.  As I mentioned earlier in the thread, none of these accusations are "ruining lives".  They are ending the careers of men who have made enough money to live comfortably for generations.  I find it hard to care if their reputation takes a hit when they belong to elite societies that will never truly abandon them.

You talk about a dangerous road to go down... What about the dangerous road we've been down for the last few thousand years?  The dangerous road where women are raped and then are damn lucky just to avoid punishment and blame for their own victimisation, let alone see justice.
We have been on this dangerous road for eons and if we take a different road that's dangerous for the previous benefactors...well...I just don't have many fucks to give.

the goal here shouldn't be to swing all the way the other way. the goal should be to end up in the middle. 

I thought justice was supposed to be blind, not "blind unless he's white and rich". 

This statement really illustrates the insane level of bias that western society builds into men.
First of all, you and the other nervous males are really mixing and matching the meaning of the word justice.  There is a stark difference between legal justice and "what people think ought to be right" and you have been blurring that line.  On that note...
"swing all the way the other way"???
Are you fucking joking? 
There are tens of thousands of untested rape kits sitting around in America.  THAT is one side.
According to you the other side "all the way the other way" is a handful of millionaire celebrities who had to quit their jobs and a nominee to the highest appointed moral authority in the free world having to just remain in his already eminent position.

Don't you see how insulting that is?  This entire conversation is a slap in the face.

jesus christ. reasoned debate has left the building.