My story dealing with several horrible entitled “railbirds” in GA at Wrigley 2

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Comments

  • Shakescky
    Shakescky Posts: 343
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    bootlegger10 said:
    Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.  
    When I saw someone post that they left during YLB on night one to get in line for night two, I thought I misread it because imy brain couldn’t process that anyone would wait two full days. Insane. 
    I remember a kid doing this a few years ago when Green Day played at Rough Trade NYC (capacity 300). I think he showed up on Wednesday, but the show wasn't until Friday.
    i have witnessed some performances. i have soaked up a lot of memories.
  • iwasthere
    iwasthere Posts: 515
    timdwilli said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    bootlegger10 said:
    Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.  
    When I saw someone post that they left during YLB on night one to get in line for night two, I thought I misread it because imy brain couldn’t process that anyone would wait two full days. Insane. 
    How does one even enjoy the show if they've spent the previous 48 hours on a sidewalk?
    Very rarely does insomnia have a benefit. I found one.
    tacos
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,647
    ForceofNature101 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    bootlegger10 said:
    Why would I honor a line that starts before 8am if the official line up is not allowed until 8am?    I can’t help what people chose to do and where with their time before 8am.  

    Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.  
    That’s the issue. The 8:00 am line isn’t official, that’s an external rule from the venue. What’s official is the informal line that starts however many days prior. If someone’s sleeping on the sidewalk for two days, hell yes they should have the rail. 
    Wouldn't the "official" line be whichever one is considered legitimate by the actual venue?  External rules from the venue automatically supercede all else right?
    Which is where the tension comes into play. What is “official”? To me, it would be fan determined because I think we should be able to regulate ourselves and I value rewarding those who put in the commitment. It’s kind of like in ye old days when people would camp out to buy tickets. Just because a venue doesn’t want the hassle of campers out front doesn’t determine norms around who has priority. I say we just view it as the line started away at a certain distance from the door. I think we can handle that. 
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,856
    iwasthere said:
    timdwilli said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    bootlegger10 said:
    Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.  
    When I saw someone post that they left during YLB on night one to get in line for night two, I thought I misread it because imy brain couldn’t process that anyone would wait two full days. Insane. 
    How does one even enjoy the show if they've spent the previous 48 hours on a sidewalk?
    Very rarely does insomnia have a benefit. I found one.
    I hope you at least carry wet wipes with you.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    timdwilli said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    bootlegger10 said:
    Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.  
    When I saw someone post that they left during YLB on night one to get in line for night two, I thought I misread it because imy brain couldn’t process that anyone would wait two full days. Insane. 
    How does one even enjoy the show if they've spent the previous 48 hours on a sidewalk?

    I'm struggling after just waiting in my seat for two hours. The waiting drives me mad.
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • iwasthere
    iwasthere Posts: 515
    I honestly had a great time waiting. I know many think its nuts, So does my GF but I made tons of new friends. Had been a long time since I had been in the PJ game. Even though the competitive part sucks, I enjoy the shows for the social part too. Made multiple life long friends, well worth it. Will be back in Chicago in 8 days for a trip planned before this one! Will go do everything then, I promise!
    tacos
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,856
    iwasthere said:
    Probably closer to last 40 seconds of YL, and was 6th person there. Not on list, standing there. First guy left after Rebel, Rebel!
    But there was a list going in that line, was there not?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • ForceofNature101
    ForceofNature101 Posts: 1,295
    edited August 2018
    Go Beavers said:
    ForceofNature101 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    bootlegger10 said:
    Why would I honor a line that starts before 8am if the official line up is not allowed until 8am?    I can’t help what people chose to do and where with their time before 8am.  

    Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.  
    That’s the issue. The 8:00 am line isn’t official, that’s an external rule from the venue. What’s official is the informal line that starts however many days prior. If someone’s sleeping on the sidewalk for two days, hell yes they should have the rail. 
    Wouldn't the "official" line be whichever one is considered legitimate by the actual venue?  External rules from the venue automatically supercede all else right?
    Which is where the tension comes into play. What is “official”? To me, it would be fan determined because I think we should be able to regulate ourselves and I value rewarding those who put in the commitment. It’s kind of like in ye old days when people would camp out to buy tickets. Just because a venue doesn’t want the hassle of campers out front doesn’t determine norms around who has priority. I say we just view it as the line started away at a certain distance from the door. I think we can handle that. 
    The issue with fan determined is - what fans determine it?  And what if other fans disagree? 

    That is why to me anything that isn't venue or 10C specified should be thrown out and not considered legitimate.  As we have seen by the number queue debacle, letting fans who camp out make the "rules" of GA lines do not have a peaceful easygoing, agreed upon result.  To me the last thing we should consider legitimate is fan-made rules over those of the venue.

    Fans, no matter who got there first, do not have any authority over other fans.  That is why venue rules and 10C supercede it, in order for all of this to work in the first place there needs to be order that does not come from the people in line.   Fans are not the people to tell fans what to do in line, that is up to the venue and 10C


    Post edited by ForceofNature101 on
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,856
    edited August 2018
    Fan determined anything is ALWAYS unofficial, lol. The fans have the least say and are the most unofficial out of them all. Yup, for the very good reasons that ForceofNature just mentioned. No fans have authority over other fans. Ever. That is actually the exact reason why these line lists piss me off so much.
    Go Beavers, your opinion on this is surprising me a bit. It just seems strange. And clearly the fans cannot handle it at all. Crazy people are rarely the best at handling things, and there are just a few too many crazy obsessed people at the front of these lines.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    edited August 2018
    By the sounds of things this is what happened. 

    - Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
    - Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
    - Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time 
    - Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
    - There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
    - Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
    - Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
    - Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
    - Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.
  • tschav
    tschav Posts: 2,900
    iwasthere said:

    I'm not usually that odd. :) We were on that side of the street where they were the first night then told to move about daylight. Want to be very clear though that these people definitely had a problem with a large group of people and it was getting nasty and they have a right to be upset. Went way to far. Many of these I think deserved to be behind schan. Again all I'm saying is if they were showing up 9 hours early just be cool and get behind us doing the same thing. If they would just walked over and hung out this would have been fine. Like I said earlier. Rain was probably a bit of karma for everyone. 
    Most of this probably could have been resolved by chatting with others that are hanging around when you arrive. At the time nobody technically followed the rules of lining up at 8am, so see what's up before the line gets longer something causes you to drop back. Did that both nights, waited 30 hours between the two shows, wasn't on a list, and still had good vantage points (rail once and I'm guessing behind iwasthere before the storm).
  • iwasthere
    iwasthere Posts: 515
    PJ_Soul said:
    iwasthere said:
    timdwilli said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    bootlegger10 said:
    Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.  
    When I saw someone post that they left during YLB on night one to get in line for night two, I thought I misread it because imy brain couldn’t process that anyone would wait two full days. Insane. 
    How does one even enjoy the show if they've spent the previous 48 hours on a sidewalk?
    Very rarely does insomnia have a benefit. I found one.
    I hope you at least carry wet wipes with you.
    2 packs for $7 at Walgreens. 
    tacos
  • Damiens
    Damiens Posts: 774
    First off, OP I was right by you (guy with hat and goatee, we talked about your Spin t-shirt and fist bumped during Jeremy), your account is 100% on point in terms of the guy in the red shirt and glasses, very frustrating and strange situation and as you described.  I'm glad you and pretty much everyone else around us was pretty cool and it was an amazing show even with some bad actors in the pit.

    As far as the larger debate about lining up and who "deserves" to be where I do not think there is any amount of time that you can wait that justifies coming into a crowded area and getting physical with people, pushing people, elbowing, etc. etc.  I was shoved into a woman on the rail by the red shirt guy which caused me to smash her into the rail which she obviously got upset about.  We're all here to see a band we love, getting angry and trying to intimidate or physically move people against their will is NOT OKAY no matter how long you waited or how justified you think you are based on your own rules that you created.

    Again, great show, 99% of people in GA were awesome and cool.  Kudos to the guy that gave me a poncho for free when the rain started and thanks to security for handing out all the free water.  Great show!!
  • Big Bank Hank
    Big Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    when I exited Safeco at the end of the first show, actually YLB was still playing, and there were already like 50 people lined up for the 2nd show 2 days later, all the tents were set up, and I was thinking to myself "this is crazy"
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,856
    tschav said:
    iwasthere said:

    I'm not usually that odd. :) We were on that side of the street where they were the first night then told to move about daylight. Want to be very clear though that these people definitely had a problem with a large group of people and it was getting nasty and they have a right to be upset. Went way to far. Many of these I think deserved to be behind schan. Again all I'm saying is if they were showing up 9 hours early just be cool and get behind us doing the same thing. If they would just walked over and hung out this would have been fine. Like I said earlier. Rain was probably a bit of karma for everyone. 
    Most of this probably could have been resolved by chatting with others that are hanging around when you arrive. At the time nobody technically followed the rules of lining up at 8am, so see what's up before the line gets longer something causes you to drop back. Did that both nights, waited 30 hours between the two shows, wasn't on a list, and still had good vantage points (rail once and I'm guessing behind iwasthere before the storm).
    What does "wasn't on a list" mean? Does that mean there was a list and your name just wasn't on it? There was definitely a list at some point, and it sounds to me it was the original group of people lined up who started it, if the stories told here are true.....
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • iwasthere
    iwasthere Posts: 515
    PJ_Soul said:
    iwasthere said:
    Probably closer to last 40 seconds of YL, and was 6th person there. Not on list, standing there. First guy left after Rebel, Rebel!
    But there was a list going in that line, was there not?

    The particular group I think schan has a right to be upset with 100% had a list. That group can put me on their list all they want, they knew I was there before them so they probably did. Even though there was a disagreement, Once lined up for day, schan's group and the next couple groups were very civil during day. I saw schan's group talk to members of both for a little bit even. Going to bow out of this for awhile til schan responds if they want.
    tacos
  • JH6056
    JH6056 Posts: 2,437
    PJNB said:
    Is this narrative wrong on what happened?

    - Night 1 ends and an unofficial line forms. Security moves them to a location that they are allowed to form the line and wait to be moved until 8:00am

    - You guys show up, know that there is an unofficial line that was made long before you got there and you still push to get ahead of it knowing they camped out right after the show. 

    - Security comes, does not give a shit and moves on

    I have a couple of questions. If you knew that people were there way before you, 8:00am lineup time or not, why did you feel the need to get ahead of them? I would never have done that myself official line or not.  I am not defending them just find it ballsy to try and slip in like that. Yes 8:00am is the designated time but these people were moved to a section by security and told to wait there until they would all be moved to the official location. In the meantime you guys come in not waiting nearly as much as the others and take the front spot. I can understand how the other group would not be overjoyed by this but them using the list and confrontational attitude is ridiculous. I am not sure what 10 club thought would happen with the 8:00am but it seemed like they were ok with the unofficial line. Posting vids and pics on social media over this was unnecessary as well by them. To have your faces smeared on a page of over 60,000 people was not fair to you or your group. Fuck them for doing that. 

    Are you talking to ascahn?  And if you are, how are you completely misreading what he wrote?

    The first show, the Aussies were at the front of the line.  The SECOND SHOW, ascahn and his buddies apparently showed up and started the line where the Aussies started it for the 1st show but this was BEFORE the Aussies showed up.  So when the Aussies showed up and found someone had started the line before them, that is when all the chaos and - from what ascahn said - shockingly awful and verging on abusive behavior began and apparently continued through going into the venue the 1st time.

    Where are you getting that the SECOND time, ascahn and his friends cut in front of the Aussies?  How did you read ascahn's very detailed account and get your version out of it?

    Hopefully you're not indicating that just because a group of fans started a line one way on one night, when they weren't there to start it the 2nd night somehow they still had a right to be in front because they started it early at the previous show?  Because if that's what you're saying... that is all kinds of bizarre and wrong.  And absurdly unfair.
  • iwasthere
    iwasthere Posts: 515
    JH6056 said:
    PJNB said:
    Is this narrative wrong on what happened?

    - Night 1 ends and an unofficial line forms. Security moves them to a location that they are allowed to form the line and wait to be moved until 8:00am

    - You guys show up, know that there is an unofficial line that was made long before you got there and you still push to get ahead of it knowing they camped out right after the show. 

    - Security comes, does not give a shit and moves on

    I have a couple of questions. If you knew that people were there way before you, 8:00am lineup time or not, why did you feel the need to get ahead of them? I would never have done that myself official line or not.  I am not defending them just find it ballsy to try and slip in like that. Yes 8:00am is the designated time but these people were moved to a section by security and told to wait there until they would all be moved to the official location. In the meantime you guys come in not waiting nearly as much as the others and take the front spot. I can understand how the other group would not be overjoyed by this but them using the list and confrontational attitude is ridiculous. I am not sure what 10 club thought would happen with the 8:00am but it seemed like they were ok with the unofficial line. Posting vids and pics on social media over this was unnecessary as well by them. To have your faces smeared on a page of over 60,000 people was not fair to you or your group. Fuck them for doing that. 

    Are you talking to ascahn?  And if you are, how are you completely misreading what he wrote?

    The first show, the Aussies were at the front of the line.  The SECOND SHOW, ascahn and his buddies apparently showed up and started the line where the Aussies started it for the 1st show but this was BEFORE the Aussies showed up.  So when the Aussies showed up and found someone had started the line before them, that is when all the chaos and - from what ascahn said - shockingly awful and verging on abusive behavior began and apparently continued through going into the venue the 1st time.

    Where are you getting that the SECOND time, ascahn and his friends cut in front of the Aussies?  How did you read ascahn's very detailed account and get your version out of it?

    Hopefully you're not indicating that just because a group of fans started a line one way on one night, when they weren't there to start it the 2nd night somehow they still had a right to be in front because they started it early at the previous show?  Because if that's what you're saying... that is all kinds of bizarre and wrong.  And absurdly unfair.
    They were near the front. Not at the front. The first two dudes (from IL and OH) left show before me. Then 3 brothers from MN who didn't go to night one. Then myself, then someone from Seattle behind me. 
    tacos
  • DirtyFrankAndBeans
    DirtyFrankAndBeans Posts: 75
    edited August 2018
    PJNB said:
    By the sounds of things this is what happened. 

    - Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
    - Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
    - Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time 
    - Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
    - There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
    - Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
    - Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
    - Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
    - Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash 
    This is the best post ever!!
    Post edited by DirtyFrankAndBeans on
    Nick
  • JH6056
    JH6056 Posts: 2,437
    mcgruff10 said:
    All this he said she said stuff ,  who knows who is right and who is wrong. But I think what is getting lost is the rule was don’t line up until 8 am day of show. So how the heck can anyone be right when what you did was against the rules. Who’s unofficial list is correct?  The one across from Murphy’s? The one on wacker drive?  To me the answer should be none of them since they are all unofficial and against the rules. 
    Just my .02 cents. 
    But that's not enough of a solution.  If you've got between 10 and 50 people milling around, angling to "start the line", when 8:00am does come, how in the world does that get resolved?  

    Just saying "No one is right before 8:00" doesn't do a thing to say who DOES get to be at the front of hte line or what order the line goes in at 8:00.

    I don't even do GA (I'm too short), so this has zero impact on me, but I believe ascahn's story and between that and other accounts of new GA line-waiters being treated like crap, it really does sound like more monitoring (at least for a period) is needed.  This won't apply to Fenway (because presumably those with connections already have front row tix and it's reserved), but whenever the next GA show is, it would be great if the 10Club would do a bit of monitoring and supporting their own rule, so that at least it's a fairer process and new folks aren't punished or victimized for doing exactly what the "rail vets" do all the time.
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