Missoula poster
Comments
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Better stop going to PJ shows and start going to watch Kanye lip synch then. Don't waste good music, if you want nonsense leave the tickets for someone who wants a good show.BS44325 said:
Dragon energy is the life blood of the "doer". It is present all over the Kanye albums that were released in June. It's what was missing from the Missoula show.rgambs said:Is dragon energy the same as very stable genius?
Because Kanye and Trump are definitely known for their stability lol
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Jeff said he loves Kanye's art. He doesn't like his opinions....that's not art. Your point has nothing to do with art. You are seriously going to try and argue that opinion is now art?BS44325 said:
You all keep saying that you can do "nuance"...but I wonder. Yes it is Jeff exercising his speech. He is entitled. He is not required to say anything. What I am suggesting with my speech is that these words from an artist who strongly believes in artistic freedom are frankly pathetic. A true believer in artistic freedom would have made a point of saying that "Even though I disagree...Kanye is a unique individual which is what makes his music great...which is why I love him in the first place...it's what makes Ye Ye." Jeff didn't do that. He questioned Kanye's integrity. An artist who takes controversial stances shouldn't do that to another artist who takes opposite controversial stances. They should embrace each other. They should support each other. It's artistic freedom that is at stake.dignin said:
Explain what this has to do with free speech, other than Jeff exercising his?BS44325 said:
Exactly. "...with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt." Way to defend a fellow artist. "Love Kanye...but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way." Pathetic if you ask me.dignin said:Wow, he really went after Kanye's free speech.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/pearl-jam-jeff-ament-interview-trump-kanye-west-2307764
What do you think of someone like Kanye West recently coming out in support of Trump?
“I love Kanye, I saw the last Kanye tour and I thought it was one of the greatest things ever, but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way. I think he’s just, you know, with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt. He’s been out of the news for a few months, so I think he’s looking to generate some. He says something about dragons, I don’t know, dragon energy, whatever that is.”
Does this affect your enjoyment of his music?
“I have a hard time separating the art from the artist. There’s certain artists where I don’t read their interviews because it really affects me enjoying their music. I wish I hadn’t opened that text that had the article about dragon energy and Donald Trump. It’s unfortunate.”
This has nothing to do with nuance, you are way out in foul territory here. Admit you have no point and try to argue a different point that makes some kind of sense.0 -
Next thing you know, he'll want Jeff to embrace Ted Nugent, as an artist.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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Deep, real deep.BS44325 said:
Definitely not this part...Halifax2TheMax said:
Which part of “slavery was a choice,” do you disagree with?BS44325 said:
Exactly. "...with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt." Way to defend a fellow artist. "Love Kanye...but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way." Pathetic if you ask me.dignin said:Wow, he really went after Kanye's free speech.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/pearl-jam-jeff-ament-interview-trump-kanye-west-2307764
What do you think of someone like Kanye West recently coming out in support of Trump?
“I love Kanye, I saw the last Kanye tour and I thought it was one of the greatest things ever, but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way. I think he’s just, you know, with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt. He’s been out of the news for a few months, so I think he’s looking to generate some. He says something about dragons, I don’t know, dragon energy, whatever that is.”
Does this affect your enjoyment of his music?
“I have a hard time separating the art from the artist. There’s certain artists where I don’t read their interviews because it really affects me enjoying their music. I wish I hadn’t opened that text that had the article about dragon energy and Donald Trump. It’s unfortunate.”
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds"09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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There was nothing wrong with the band's energy at Missoula. I wasn't a fan of the set list, but they were on point. It appealed to the casual fan.BS44325 said:
Dragon energy is the life blood of the "doer". It is present all over the Kanye albums that were released in June. It's what was missing from the Missoula show.rgambs said:Is dragon energy the same as very stable genius?
Because Kanye and Trump are definitely known for their stability lol0 -
i agree with the person who said its just another ugly poster.0
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Just reach for the Baltimore bootleg. Ed mentions the ghost of Ted Nugent. OMG the shock, the horror. We must denounce this act of violence that suggests Ted Nugent is dead and his ghost was haunting the arena.Halifax2TheMax said:Next thing you know, he'll want Jeff to embrace Ted Nugent, as an artist.
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It's a bit of the last point but mainly it is my concern about the "stifling of speech" culture that is spreading all around us like a weed. It is a culture that is happening on both sides. I hated it when conservatives wanted to boycott the dixie chicks and I hated it when liberals wanted to boycott kanye (this was a real suggestion in the hip hop community and amongst urban radio). I hate that this poster is in the fucking news at all...who the fuck cares?! Free speech is under assault everywhere. Comedy is under assault. Artistic expression is under assault. I am ok with Jeff criticizing Kanye but I am disappointed that he couldn't at least throw the slightest bone to the idea of Kanye's artistic freedom and how it makes him the artist that he is. It wasn't Jeff's direct responsibility to do this but it was a missed opportunity from a band that I know deep down believes in artistic freedom. Like Jeff says...these are troubled times...and during these troubled times opportunities to defend speech should not be missed.PJ_Soul said:
Yeah, I'm not clear on what you're really trying to get at either BS. I don't understand what it is you have a problem with. Are you saying that you think Jeff should not have an opinion about something stupid that Kanye said? Or are you saying he has to like all artists even when they are idiots, or not criticize artists when they say or do something he thinks sucks? I can't quite figure this out, knowing that you do support free speech. I dunno, do you think that there is something wrong with people not separating art from the artist maybe??dignin said:
Explain what this has to do with free speech, other than Jeff exercising his?BS44325 said:
Exactly. "...with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt." Way to defend a fellow artist. "Love Kanye...but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way." Pathetic if you ask me.dignin said:Wow, he really went after Kanye's free speech.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/pearl-jam-jeff-ament-interview-trump-kanye-west-2307764
What do you think of someone like Kanye West recently coming out in support of Trump?
“I love Kanye, I saw the last Kanye tour and I thought it was one of the greatest things ever, but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way. I think he’s just, you know, with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt. He’s been out of the news for a few months, so I think he’s looking to generate some. He says something about dragons, I don’t know, dragon energy, whatever that is.”
Does this affect your enjoyment of his music?
“I have a hard time separating the art from the artist. There’s certain artists where I don’t read their interviews because it really affects me enjoying their music. I wish I hadn’t opened that text that had the article about dragon energy and Donald Trump. It’s unfortunate.”
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I didn't just "bring up Planned Parenthood" you liar. I am effectively pro choice and don't have a feeling towards Planned Parenthood one way or another. What I said is that there could be "others" who might not want their money going to a Planned Parenthood associated event. In a state like Montana that is within the realm of possibilities. And it's "Dragon Energy" for F sakes which is different then "Tiger Blood"! What kind of moron confuses his Kanye with Charlie!!!Go Beavers said:
You brought up Planned Parenthood. I’m suggesting that may have effected your reaction to the show rather than vague references to tiger energy or whatever the heck.BS44325 said:
Really? You are going to purposely choose to manipulate what I said? Why? Clearly it is intentional. Some of you are really interesting cats.Go Beavers said:
You cared enough to mention it in the other thread.BS44325 said:
I couldn't care a lessGo Beavers said:
Or maybe you were upset about Planned Parenthood being there.BS44325 said:
Jeff sounds like Kanye. Too bad he didn’t have the balls to defend Kanye’s right to free speech in his magazine interview and instead slagged him for supporting Trump. Jeff didn’t get “dragon energy” and the Missoula concert proved it.dignin said:"Love, from the First Amendment, Jeff Ament."
Fuck yeah.0 -
Interesting that both Jeff and I loved seeing Kanye in concert... who has the good musical taste now?rgambs said:
Better stop going to PJ shows and start going to watch Kanye lip synch then. Don't waste good music, if you want nonsense leave the tickets for someone who wants a good show.BS44325 said:
Dragon energy is the life blood of the "doer". It is present all over the Kanye albums that were released in June. It's what was missing from the Missoula show.rgambs said:Is dragon energy the same as very stable genius?
Because Kanye and Trump are definitely known for their stability lol0 -
Wait a minute, did Jeff say Kanye didn't have the right to say what he said or just didn't like what he said?
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Have you ever listened to hip hop? Are you saying rap lyrics, flooded with opinion, aren't art? Please whitesplain this to the class then study a tape of N.W.A.dignin said:
Jeff said he loves Kanye's art. He doesn't like his opinions....that's not art. Your point has nothing to do with art. You are seriously going to try and argue that opinion is now art?BS44325 said:
You all keep saying that you can do "nuance"...but I wonder. Yes it is Jeff exercising his speech. He is entitled. He is not required to say anything. What I am suggesting with my speech is that these words from an artist who strongly believes in artistic freedom are frankly pathetic. A true believer in artistic freedom would have made a point of saying that "Even though I disagree...Kanye is a unique individual which is what makes his music great...which is why I love him in the first place...it's what makes Ye Ye." Jeff didn't do that. He questioned Kanye's integrity. An artist who takes controversial stances shouldn't do that to another artist who takes opposite controversial stances. They should embrace each other. They should support each other. It's artistic freedom that is at stake.dignin said:
Explain what this has to do with free speech, other than Jeff exercising his?BS44325 said:
Exactly. "...with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt." Way to defend a fellow artist. "Love Kanye...but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way." Pathetic if you ask me.dignin said:Wow, he really went after Kanye's free speech.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/pearl-jam-jeff-ament-interview-trump-kanye-west-2307764
What do you think of someone like Kanye West recently coming out in support of Trump?
“I love Kanye, I saw the last Kanye tour and I thought it was one of the greatest things ever, but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way. I think he’s just, you know, with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt. He’s been out of the news for a few months, so I think he’s looking to generate some. He says something about dragons, I don’t know, dragon energy, whatever that is.”
Does this affect your enjoyment of his music?
“I have a hard time separating the art from the artist. There’s certain artists where I don’t read their interviews because it really affects me enjoying their music. I wish I hadn’t opened that text that had the article about dragon energy and Donald Trump. It’s unfortunate.”
This has nothing to do with nuance, you are way out in foul territory here. Admit you have no point and try to argue a different point that makes some kind of sense.0 -
Its snowing today.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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It's extremely generous when someone supports a band they can't stand. Weird, but generous.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
And the goal posts keep moving. Where was Jeff critical of Kanye's art?BS44325 said:
Have you ever listened to hip hop? Are you saying rap lyrics, flooded with opinion, aren't art? Please whitesplain this to the class then study a tape of N.W.A.dignin said:
Jeff said he loves Kanye's art. He doesn't like his opinions....that's not art. Your point has nothing to do with art. You are seriously going to try and argue that opinion is now art?BS44325 said:
You all keep saying that you can do "nuance"...but I wonder. Yes it is Jeff exercising his speech. He is entitled. He is not required to say anything. What I am suggesting with my speech is that these words from an artist who strongly believes in artistic freedom are frankly pathetic. A true believer in artistic freedom would have made a point of saying that "Even though I disagree...Kanye is a unique individual which is what makes his music great...which is why I love him in the first place...it's what makes Ye Ye." Jeff didn't do that. He questioned Kanye's integrity. An artist who takes controversial stances shouldn't do that to another artist who takes opposite controversial stances. They should embrace each other. They should support each other. It's artistic freedom that is at stake.dignin said:
Explain what this has to do with free speech, other than Jeff exercising his?BS44325 said:
Exactly. "...with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt." Way to defend a fellow artist. "Love Kanye...but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way." Pathetic if you ask me.dignin said:Wow, he really went after Kanye's free speech.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/pearl-jam-jeff-ament-interview-trump-kanye-west-2307764
What do you think of someone like Kanye West recently coming out in support of Trump?
“I love Kanye, I saw the last Kanye tour and I thought it was one of the greatest things ever, but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way. I think he’s just, you know, with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt. He’s been out of the news for a few months, so I think he’s looking to generate some. He says something about dragons, I don’t know, dragon energy, whatever that is.”
Does this affect your enjoyment of his music?
“I have a hard time separating the art from the artist. There’s certain artists where I don’t read their interviews because it really affects me enjoying their music. I wish I hadn’t opened that text that had the article about dragon energy and Donald Trump. It’s unfortunate.”
This has nothing to do with nuance, you are way out in foul territory here. Admit you have no point and try to argue a different point that makes some kind of sense.
You lost this point. Let it go.0 -
He just questioned his integrity. Stated he loves Kanye but because of his words he's gone the other way. Kanye's speech was too much for Jeff to handle. Jeff's entitled to the view but it's a pathetic point of view coming from a champion of artistic freedom. That's his freedom.brianlux said:Wait a minute, did Jeff say Kanye didn't have the right to say what he said or just didn't like what he said?0 -
Huh. Well I also don't separate the art from the artist - I think that's a very valid and understandable viewpoint. The artist has everything to do with the art. I feel like that part is a very neutral kind of thing - just a harmless matter of opinion. Those who don't feel this way about it are weird though. They claim they want to separate the artist from the art, but then get upset if the artist injects their own opinions into the art. One wanting to separate the artist from the art has literally nothing to do with what the artist does or says in the first place.BS44325 said:
It's a bit of the last point but mainly it is my concern about the "stifling of speech" culture that is spreading all around us like a weed. It is a culture that is happening on both sides. I hated it when conservatives wanted to boycott the dixie chicks and I hated it when liberals wanted to boycott kanye (this was a real suggestion in the hip hop community and amongst urban radio). I hate that this poster is in the fucking news at all...who the fuck cares?! Free speech is under assault everywhere. Comedy is under assault. Artistic expression is under assault. I am ok with Jeff criticizing Kanye but I am disappointed that he couldn't at least throw the slightest bone to the idea of Kanye's artistic freedom and how it makes him the artist that he is. It wasn't Jeff's direct responsibility to do this but it was a missed opportunity from a band that I know deep down believes in artistic freedom. Like Jeff says...these are troubled times...and during these troubled times opportunities to defend speech should not be missed.PJ_Soul said:
Yeah, I'm not clear on what you're really trying to get at either BS. I don't understand what it is you have a problem with. Are you saying that you think Jeff should not have an opinion about something stupid that Kanye said? Or are you saying he has to like all artists even when they are idiots, or not criticize artists when they say or do something he thinks sucks? I can't quite figure this out, knowing that you do support free speech. I dunno, do you think that there is something wrong with people not separating art from the artist maybe??dignin said:
Explain what this has to do with free speech, other than Jeff exercising his?BS44325 said:
Exactly. "...with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt." Way to defend a fellow artist. "Love Kanye...but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way." Pathetic if you ask me.dignin said:Wow, he really went after Kanye's free speech.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/pearl-jam-jeff-ament-interview-trump-kanye-west-2307764
What do you think of someone like Kanye West recently coming out in support of Trump?
“I love Kanye, I saw the last Kanye tour and I thought it was one of the greatest things ever, but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way. I think he’s just, you know, with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt. He’s been out of the news for a few months, so I think he’s looking to generate some. He says something about dragons, I don’t know, dragon energy, whatever that is.”
Does this affect your enjoyment of his music?
“I have a hard time separating the art from the artist. There’s certain artists where I don’t read their interviews because it really affects me enjoying their music. I wish I hadn’t opened that text that had the article about dragon energy and Donald Trump. It’s unfortunate.”
But besides that, FWIW, I fucking loved it when the conservatives wanted to boycott the Dixie Chicks, lol, and I also love it if someone wants to boycott Kanye (I personally boycotted him years ago because he's a massive douche who I wouldn't want to give my money to, and I don't like that kind of music anyhow). I got a real kick out of people getting upset with Bu$hleaguer too. I enjoy it when people react to the actions of artists, particularly when they are freaking out about artistic content (which isn't the case with Kanye - his problem is his terrible personality and mental case/bullshit/attention whore political position). Boycotting doesn't impinge on anything besides what the people boycotting are choosing to enjoy or not. I definitely do not like how people seem so ignorant about art and its purpose, meaning, intent, etc, and many also seem to refuse to acknowledge the difference between free speech and hate speech, and also seem to refuse to acknowledge the definition of free speech altogether ... That is just frustrating to me. It reflects a widespread stupidity that makes me worry about the future in general, you know, in the idiocracy kind of way. But besides that, I don't give a flying fuck when people get worked up because they're offended by someone else's opinion or artwork, aside from the entertainment it provides.... Well, okay. I do also personally enjoy seeing the Trump supporters get upset, just because they're objectively assholes IMO.
Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Are you not even familiar with "Ye Vs. The People"? Are you seriously commenting on a thread you know nothing about? What do you think the magazine article stems from? You lost the match.dignin said:
And the goal posts keep moving. Where was Jeff critical of Kanye's art?BS44325 said:
Have you ever listened to hip hop? Are you saying rap lyrics, flooded with opinion, aren't art? Please whitesplain this to the class then study a tape of N.W.A.dignin said:
Jeff said he loves Kanye's art. He doesn't like his opinions....that's not art. Your point has nothing to do with art. You are seriously going to try and argue that opinion is now art?BS44325 said:
You all keep saying that you can do "nuance"...but I wonder. Yes it is Jeff exercising his speech. He is entitled. He is not required to say anything. What I am suggesting with my speech is that these words from an artist who strongly believes in artistic freedom are frankly pathetic. A true believer in artistic freedom would have made a point of saying that "Even though I disagree...Kanye is a unique individual which is what makes his music great...which is why I love him in the first place...it's what makes Ye Ye." Jeff didn't do that. He questioned Kanye's integrity. An artist who takes controversial stances shouldn't do that to another artist who takes opposite controversial stances. They should embrace each other. They should support each other. It's artistic freedom that is at stake.dignin said:
Explain what this has to do with free speech, other than Jeff exercising his?BS44325 said:
Exactly. "...with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt." Way to defend a fellow artist. "Love Kanye...but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way." Pathetic if you ask me.dignin said:Wow, he really went after Kanye's free speech.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/pearl-jam-jeff-ament-interview-trump-kanye-west-2307764
What do you think of someone like Kanye West recently coming out in support of Trump?
“I love Kanye, I saw the last Kanye tour and I thought it was one of the greatest things ever, but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way. I think he’s just, you know, with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt. He’s been out of the news for a few months, so I think he’s looking to generate some. He says something about dragons, I don’t know, dragon energy, whatever that is.”
Does this affect your enjoyment of his music?
“I have a hard time separating the art from the artist. There’s certain artists where I don’t read their interviews because it really affects me enjoying their music. I wish I hadn’t opened that text that had the article about dragon energy and Donald Trump. It’s unfortunate.”
This has nothing to do with nuance, you are way out in foul territory here. Admit you have no point and try to argue a different point that makes some kind of sense.
You lost this point. Let it go.0 -
"Experts".
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Yeah but in the case I'm the Trump supporter getting upset that others are mad about the poster! I'm defending the band while at the same time pointing out a spot where I think Jeff fell short. I feel like I am the one being consistent here even if you don't think the situations are the same!PJ_Soul said:
Huh. Well I also don't separate the art from the artist - I think that's a very valid and understandable viewpoint. The artist has everything to do with the art. I feel like that part is a very neutral kind of thing - just a harmless matter of opinion. Those who don't feel this way about it are weird though. They claim they want to separate the artist from the art, but then get upset if the artist injects their own opinions into the art. One wanting to separate the artist from the art has literally nothing to do with what the artist does or says in the first place.BS44325 said:
It's a bit of the last point but mainly it is my concern about the "stifling of speech" culture that is spreading all around us like a weed. It is a culture that is happening on both sides. I hated it when conservatives wanted to boycott the dixie chicks and I hated it when liberals wanted to boycott kanye (this was a real suggestion in the hip hop community and amongst urban radio). I hate that this poster is in the fucking news at all...who the fuck cares?! Free speech is under assault everywhere. Comedy is under assault. Artistic expression is under assault. I am ok with Jeff criticizing Kanye but I am disappointed that he couldn't at least throw the slightest bone to the idea of Kanye's artistic freedom and how it makes him the artist that he is. It wasn't Jeff's direct responsibility to do this but it was a missed opportunity from a band that I know deep down believes in artistic freedom. Like Jeff says...these are troubled times...and during these troubled times opportunities to defend speech should not be missed.PJ_Soul said:
Yeah, I'm not clear on what you're really trying to get at either BS. I don't understand what it is you have a problem with. Are you saying that you think Jeff should not have an opinion about something stupid that Kanye said? Or are you saying he has to like all artists even when they are idiots, or not criticize artists when they say or do something he thinks sucks? I can't quite figure this out, knowing that you do support free speech. I dunno, do you think that there is something wrong with people not separating art from the artist maybe??dignin said:
Explain what this has to do with free speech, other than Jeff exercising his?BS44325 said:
Exactly. "...with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt." Way to defend a fellow artist. "Love Kanye...but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way." Pathetic if you ask me.dignin said:Wow, he really went after Kanye's free speech.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/pearl-jam-jeff-ament-interview-trump-kanye-west-2307764
What do you think of someone like Kanye West recently coming out in support of Trump?
“I love Kanye, I saw the last Kanye tour and I thought it was one of the greatest things ever, but then when he opened his mouth, I swung the other way. I think he’s just, you know, with the Kardashians and that whole thing. All of it is just a big publicity stunt. He’s been out of the news for a few months, so I think he’s looking to generate some. He says something about dragons, I don’t know, dragon energy, whatever that is.”
Does this affect your enjoyment of his music?
“I have a hard time separating the art from the artist. There’s certain artists where I don’t read their interviews because it really affects me enjoying their music. I wish I hadn’t opened that text that had the article about dragon energy and Donald Trump. It’s unfortunate.”
But besides that, FWIW, I fucking loved it when the conservatives wanted to boycott the Dixie Chicks, lol, and I also love it if someone wants to boycott Kanye (I personally boycotted him years ago because he's a massive douche who I wouldn't want to give my money to, and I don't like that kind of music anyhow). I got a real kick out of people getting upset with Bu$hleaguer too. I enjoy it when people react to the actions of artists, particularly when they are freaking out about artistic content (which isn't the case with Kanye - his problem is his terrible personality and mental case/bullshit/attention whore political position). Boycotting doesn't impinge on anything besides what the people boycotting are choosing to enjoy or not. I definitely do not like how people seem so ignorant about art and its purpose, meaning, intent, etc, and many also seem to refuse to acknowledge the difference between free speech and hate speech, and also seem to refuse to acknowledge the definition of free speech altogether ... That is just frustrating to me. It reflects a widespread stupidity that makes me worry about the future in general, you know, in the idiocracy kind of way. But besides that, I don't give a flying fuck when people get worked up because they're offended by someone else's opinion or artwork, aside from the entertainment it provides.... Well, okay. I do also personally enjoy seeing the Trump supporters get upset, just because they're objectively assholes IMO.0
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