Donald Trump

dignin said:

NBC/Marist polls: Independents break away from Trump, GOP

For all of the attention on polls showing President Trump retaining clear support from Republican voters, there’s maybe a more important set of numbers to watch heading in November’s midterm elections – Trump and the GOP’s standing with independents.

And according to a trio of state polls released by NBC News and Marist College, these independent voters are breaking away from the president and the Republican Party.

In Arizona’s poll — which shows Democrat Kyrsten Sinema ahead of her possible GOP opponents by double digits – Sinema leads Republican Martha McSally by 17 points among independent voters, 49 percent to 32 percent.

In Ohio – where Democrat Sherrod Brown is up 13 points — the Democratic senator enjoys a whopping 21-point lead over Republican Jim Renacci among indies, 51 percent to 30 percent.

And in Florida — where Democrat Bill Nelson is ahead by just 4 points (which is within the poll’s margin of error – the Democrat’s lead over Republican Rick Scott among independents is 9 points, 50 percent to 41 percent.

And it’s not just the horserace numbers. Trump’s job rating among independent adults is below 40 percent in Arizona (36 percent), Ohio (37 percent) and Florida (39 percent).

Independent voters also prefer a Democratic-controlled Congress in these three states — D+2 in Arizona, D+6 in Ohio and D+8 in Florida.

Additionally, fewer than one-in-three indie adults say Trump deserves re-election — 29 percent in Arizona, 31 percent in Florida and 32 percent in Ohio.

And maybe most significantly of all, independent voters by double-digit margins — 14 points in Florida, 21 points in Arizona and 29 points in Ohio — say their vote in November will be a message to check and balance Trump rather than to pass his 

https://www.nbcnews.com/card/nbc-marist-polls-independents-break-away-trump-gop-n887091

Like I said, forget about his cult base. Trump can keep them.

Yeah....independents, like myself, plus the reasonable 10-15% or so of repubs (not the 30% brainwashed deplorables) who voted for him before will shape things moving forward.

HughFreakingDillon said:

has he come up with a nickname for maxine waters yet? like Mad Max? or maybe Blaxine? because you know you've made it when asshole gives you a nickname. 

‘Extraordinarily low IQ person’ just wasn’t cutting it for me. No rhyme to it and no reference to gender or race.  

I was watching a Trump rally the other day for the first time since his campaign and you know what it remined me of? The Two-Minutes Hate from 1984. He's still rambling on about Hillary and they're still chanting "lock her up." It's pretty similar to how The Party in 1984 would make the party members watch footage of their enemy Goldstein and get fired up about it. But Goldstein might not even exist. Just as, from a relevance standpoint, Hillary doesn't exist anymore. There's been a lot of 1984 comparisons since the rise of Trump but this is the one that sticks out to me the most. 

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I was watching a Trump rally the other day for the first time since his campaign and you know what it remined me of? The Two-Minutes Hate from 1984. He's still rambling on about Hillary and they're still chanting "lock her up." It's pretty similar to how The Party in 1984 would make the party members watch footage of their enemy Goldstein and get fired up about it. But Goldstein might not even exist. Just as, from a relevance standpoint, Hillary doesn't exist anymore. There's been a lot of 1984 comparisons since the rise of Trump but this is the one that sticks out to me the most. 

For me, it's the whole, 'the truth is lies, lies are the truth' thing going on, plus the idea that 'telling the truth is a revolutionary act' - at this point, Trump's made that pretty much true! But yes, the whole situation, administration, the man himself, all of his messages, everything, it is all insanely Orwellian, more so everyday.

The topper was definitely Kellyanne Conway referring to some lies as "alternative facts." 

There's some Animal Farm parallels with this administration as well. Obviously Trump is Napoleon the pig, and Sarah Sanders is Squealer. And the pigs becoming friendly with humans at the end of the book is tantamount to Trump being friendly with the Putins and Kims of the world.....

"Four legs good, two legs bad" turned into "Four legs good, two legs BETTER" for the pigs.

"Allies good, oppressive leaders bad" has turned to "Allies bad, oppressive leaders tremendous" for the presidency. 

Say what you will about Don - and God knows he is a tremendously flawed person - but I still am not close to wishing the election went the other way. 

For as broken and corrupt a system as the govt has become, this bull in the chinashop is better than what would have been more of the same.  He’s not nearly as bad as the media portrays him to be. He’s actually not Adolf Hitler.  He’s a cartoonish, egotistical, reality tv guy.  He’s not slaughtering millions of innocent people, nor will he.  Obviously we have a lot of things to fix - but that’s not a new situation.  

A lot of shit has been brought to the surface in the last year and a half.  So let’s just be civil and deal with it.  

DPrival78 said:

Say what you will about Don - and God knows he is a tremendously flawed person - but I still am not close to wishing the election went the other way. 

For as broken and corrupt a system as the govt has become, this bull in the chinashop is better than what would have been more of the same.  He’s not nearly as bad as the media portrays him to be. He’s actually not Adolf Hitler.  He’s a cartoonish, egotistical, reality tv guy.  He’s not slaughtering millions of innocent people, nor will he.  Obviously we have a lot of things to fix - but that’s not a new situation.  

A lot of shit has been brought to the surface in the last year and a half.  So let’s just be civil and deal with it.  

If you think the "deep state" has been brought to the surface,  then you have been gas lit (gas lighted?).  

Provide another example please

DPrival78 said:

The idea of a “deep state” is nothing new.  Just like “fake news” is nothing new. 

We had prime examples of both with, say, the Iraq war.  The reasons were all made up bullshit, and were parroted by the mainstream media who just played along. 

I think its interesting that the anti-war crew from the bush years basically disappeared around 2009, and now cite the mainstream media regularly to back their criticisms of the current admin. 

The Iraq war wasn't perpetuated by career service people,  it was done by the neo conservative political appointees  that controlled the White House.  They pressured the career people in the CIA to find validating evidence.  Iraq is the precise inverse of what you're referring to.  Regarding the press. You won't find me defending them for not asking too many questions.  But if you don't really remember the jingoism that gripped the US post 9-11, just Google the Dixie Chicks. 

mrussel1 said:

DPrival78 said:

The idea of a “deep state” is nothing new.  Just like “fake news” is nothing new. 

We had prime examples of both with, say, the Iraq war.  The reasons were all made up bullshit, and were parroted by the mainstream media who just played along. 

I think its interesting that the anti-war crew from the bush years basically disappeared around 2009, and now cite the mainstream media regularly to back their criticisms of the current admin. 

The Iraq war wasn't perpetuated by career service people,  it was done by the neo conservative political appointees  that controlled the White House.  They pressured the career people in the CIA to find validating evidence.  Iraq is the precise inverse of what you're referring to.  Regarding the press. You won't find me defending them for not asking too many questions.  But if you don't really remember the jingoism that gripped the US post 9-11, just Google the Dixie Chicks. 

You don’t launch, and continue, never-ending wars spanning multiple administrations without people behind the scenes pulling the levers.  Everyone with half a brain, including many “independent journalists”, knew the war was horseshit, and yet here we are.. 2018.. almost 2 decades later, and the bullets are still flying.  I used to believe it was the PNAC crowd behind it, but once they left, the ball kept on rolling.. the bombs kept dropping. And, for some baffling reason, the anti war protests stopped. 

Let’s be honest.. in the last election, Don was the more anti-war choice of the two garbage choices this wonderful system presented us with. And that says a fucking ton.   

mrussel1 said:

DPrival78 said:

mrussel1 said:

DPrival78 said:

The idea of a “deep state” is nothing new.  Just like “fake news” is nothing new. 

We had prime examples of both with, say, the Iraq war.  The reasons were all made up bullshit, and were parroted by the mainstream media who just played along. 

I think its interesting that the anti-war crew from the bush years basically disappeared around 2009, and now cite the mainstream media regularly to back their criticisms of the current admin. 

The Iraq war wasn't perpetuated by career service people,  it was done by the neo conservative political appointees  that controlled the White House.  They pressured the career people in the CIA to find validating evidence.  Iraq is the precise inverse of what you're referring to.  Regarding the press. You won't find me defending them for not asking too many questions.  But if you don't really remember the jingoism that gripped the US post 9-11, just Google the Dixie Chicks. 

You don’t launch, and continue, never-ending wars spanning multiple administrations without people behind the scenes pulling the levers.  Everyone with half a brain, including many “independent journalists”, knew the war was horseshit, and yet here we are.. 2018.. almost 2 decades later, and the bullets are still flying.  I used to believe it was the PNAC crowd behind it, but once they left, the ball kept on rolling.. the bombs kept dropping. And, for some baffling reason, the anti war protests stopped. 

Let’s be honest.. in the last election, Don was the more anti-war choice of the two garbage choices this wonderful system presented us with. And that says a fucking ton.   

Yeah,  it's the defense industry (aka military industrial complex).  They have gained the most.  Read Ike's farewell speech in 1960 for his prescient warning. 

Yet Trump is the one pushing for a massive increase in the defense budget.  Obama cut the military budget and Trump used it as a wedge issue.  Gas light. 

Agree, the whole military industrial complex is a thing. Agree, Don is big on military spending.  Not a fan of either. 

Drone strikes may not cost as much as boots-on-the-ground invasions, but they kill innocent people just the same.  If your argument is Obama found a more cost effective way to kill people, well..I suppose you’re right. 

And let’s not not forget about Libya and Syria, and the after effects of both of those situations.  

Trump bumped the military budget, but, so far, he’s been surprisingly controlled when it comes to using it.  I will say, that despite everything, my biggest fear with him was that he’d either have an itchy trigger finger, or, he’d be easily duped by those MIC-powers-that-be into pushing forward with the war plan that’s been in effect since 2001.  He hasn’t gotten too crazy with that, yet. Thankfully.