14 years and counting...

Cliffy6745 said:

Most definitely eating some delicious tacos and barbacoa made by undocumented (and in one case very vocal and outspoken) immigrants this weekend.

Cliffy6745 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

tbergs said:

Cliffy6745 said:

LongestRoad said:

So do you all think that anyone should be able to enter the country without being stopped? Should everyone be able to travel freely across all borders? 

Not one person has said that.

Hell, I'll say it. I don't know if there is such thing as "freely", but what would really change from what's happening right now? You could spend all of these resources we devote to border control on human services for these people where we know they already cross and devote law enforcement to focusing on the crime that is occurring in their jurisdictions.

I still think that the Wire Season 3 got it right. Quit trying to stop the inevitable and focus on how we can reallocate the funds more appropriately.

Amsterdam?

Hamsterdam

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Immigration briefly seized the podium at the Florida Democratic debate, with both Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton trying to calibrate their message toward Latino voters by vowing to pursue a more humane immigration policy and critiquing President Obama’s record of mass deportations. Still, there was precious little discussion of undocumented immigrants as anything but a problem to be dealt with.

The candidates could have looked at new economic data showing that in Florida, undocumented immigrants contributed $588 million annually in state and local taxes. That revenue, which is paid by people who are powering the local economy as all other Floridians are, through their labor and consumption, is drawn from sales and excise taxes ($454 million) and property taxes ($134 million).

Altogether, according to the state and local tax data analysis—published by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP)—undocumented immigrants contribute about $11.6 billion to the economy annually, including nearly $7 billion in sales and excise taxes and $3.6 billion in property taxes. They are, in economic terms, productive citizens, and pay a higher effective tax rate than the top 1 percent income bracket. That alone is not the primary reason they should be embraced as neighbors and coworkers. But it dissolves the myth that immigrants do nothing but drain public coffers.

An even larger boost would come from a full implementation of the executive actions that Obama rolled out for undocumented youths and parents earlier in his term: deportation relief granted to youths who arrived as children without authorization and a similar initiative for parents who are undocumented but have children born in the United States.

Under these policies—which have been obstructed by court challenges—up to 5.2 million undocumented immigrants could be granted relief, and cumulatively contribute “an estimated $805 million a year” in state and local taxes.

Election-season politics aside, ITEP calculates that state coffers have a lot to gain from essentially handing the undocumented green cards: about $2.1 billion annually on top of the current $11.6 billion, based on the most recent data, about half of that from personal income tax withheld, and a third from sales and excise taxes. In other words, if only our immigration system were rationalized to treat these people as what they actually are: permanent residents.

According to ITEP executive director and report author Matt Gardner, most of the additional wage gains would come from “just more people being incorporated into the system and having income tax withheld from their paychecks who aren’t having that income tax withheld right now.” But legalization would also bring a more positive long-term personal ripple effect: They will earn more, with a wage boost of some 10 percent under full legalization.

For many low-wage undocumented workers, Gardner says, “currently undocumented families will earn more once they’re incorporated into the system. That obviously means they’re going to pay more taxes in their income, they’re going to spend more, they’re going to pay more sales taxes on their spending.”

Though they would pay more taxes, it’s estimated that many of the undocumented would willingly get “on the books” if it meant shielding their families from deportation; there’s an immeasurable benefit to keeping families intact instead of tearing them apart through deportation and detention. And they might actually qualify for the benefits they help fund, like earned-income tax credits that help lift low-wage workers out of poverty, and Medicare and Social Security in later years. (Many undocumented workers already pay federal tax through automatic payroll deductions.)

Green cards wouldn’t remedy the inequities endemic to the neoliberal economy, but for the workers cast across borders by globalization, some of the poorest would gain basic recognition of their economic citizenship.

Critics might point out that there’s no total figure for the undocumented population’s fiscal “cost”—how much undocumented immigrants consume in services. With Malthusian vitriol, the Trump camp might argue that migrants are scrounging from “our” public health and social services and filling up schools with their (native-born citizen) kids. Gardner cautions against such a simplistic calculus as an arbitrary and politically squishy exercise: Would an emergency room visit count as an undocumented person’s liability—or is this offset by better health that allows them to stay employed and productive? Do their kids merely take up classroom slots, or could they grow up to obtain careers that enhance society and improve their communities?

Continued...........

this is the funny part of the unsung argument. undocumented immigrants contribute more to the economy than they take. it's just another lie from the right they will have you believe to mask their inherent racist agenda. 

I was going to ask a question about this.

Do we know how many of them get welfare or don't pay certain bills?

If the above isn't a significant cost then I would actually consider to opening out borders and saving billions on enforcing border laws and integrate the people since they are contributing.

A nation needs immigrants to grow and prosper.

Hey, if you've got a sturdy back and a strong work ethic, I say Welcome to America!

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

The Juggler said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

The Juggler said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

The Juggler said:

unsung said:

my2hands said:

unsung said:

Nobody is being abused.

Let me take your 5 year old child by force and throw them in a cage without you knowing where they are, then talk to me about abuse, tough guy

People like you are giving America a bad name, you should be ashamed

You have zero empathy, for anyone, and its disgusting 

Not true.  I have empathy for the taxpayers that have to fund this mess.

HA
How about the 20 billion dollars your president wants us to pay for an idiotic wall....after promising he would convince Mexico to foot the bill for 2 years? How about the 2 trillion dollars their tax plan adds to our deficit?

Is this guy for real?

You are a hypocritical mess...

I actually kinda think that spending the money on the wall would be cheaper in the long run than prosecuting thousands upon thousands of people and putting the kids up to stay in warehouses every year.

Really? You think this zero tolerance policy is going to continue on a yearly basis?

I have no idea.  Let’s say they remove the zero tolerance- they still have war torn countries and cartels forcing people out of their countries for safety and ending up here.  Look at Europe, most of those countries bordering the type of countries have walls/fences/etc. and prosecute & throw people out who try to come in. But it can’t be cheap.

Ma'am, how much do you think we spend on prosecuting these folks currently?

Perhaps we could do a better job of not turning down so many folks at the legal ports of entry? A lot of people who are currently being prosecuted and have had their kids sent to these horrible wallmart cages tried to do it the right way but were not able to get in. If you travelled halfway across the world out of a war torn country only to be told the legal port is full, what would you do? Turn around and go traverse back to your war torn country or do what these folks did?

I don’t know, bust out your calculator and let me know.   There’s no cages by the way, I haven’t read any info saying that kids are in cages lol.    And maybe you’re misssing the point but the reason they’re being prosecuted is to send a message that they can’t just turn around and try it illegally, it’s supposed to deter emigration unless it’s legal and with a visa. Is it working? Obviously not. I’m just saying that the whole shit is assbackwards and can’t be cheap the way it is now.  We’ll have hundreds of these Walmart asylums before you know it and then we’re dealing with a humanitarian disaster.  The cartels know what they’re doing, they’re not trying to save people, they’re taking their money and making our government deal with them.

my2hands said:

Every single person in this thread is either an immigrant, or a descendant of an immigrant. 

Including Captain America, unsung