Texas shooting, Our fault.

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Comments

  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    JimmyV said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    YOU ARE NOT an anti gunner if you want common sense gun laws...

    We in Canada have decent gun laws.  Plenty of people I know still hunt and enjoy and they never complain about such nuisances as trigger locks, proper gun storage...etc.  
    Just want to repeat this Bolded part. 
    It can't be repeated enough. Gun ownership is not the problem. American gun culture is.
    could you not say that gun ownership is a part of gun culture?  like when you have people who own many guns. 
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,599
    fife said:
    JimmyV said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    YOU ARE NOT an anti gunner if you want common sense gun laws...

    We in Canada have decent gun laws.  Plenty of people I know still hunt and enjoy and they never complain about such nuisances as trigger locks, proper gun storage...etc.  
    Just want to repeat this Bolded part. 
    It can't be repeated enough. Gun ownership is not the problem. American gun culture is.
    could you not say that gun ownership is a part of gun culture?  like when you have people who own many guns. 
    Sure, but owning too many guns or fighting tooth and nail against regulation of guns or failing to properly store your guns or using your guns to overcompensate for something...all of these are greater parts of the problem than someone owning (and properly storing) a gun or two.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mattsl1983
    mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    brianlux said:
    What's your point here matts?  To instigate and, as Meltdown said, to lump everyone into two distinct camps?  This kind of thread produces no results other than yet another AMT thread shoot-out.


    My point is, singling out this idea that a gun is responsible is not only irrgonorant but also offensive.  Guns have been a part of American culture since day one.  Why now all of a sudden are guns to blame for shootings?  It’s an honest question.  High schools used to have shooting teams.  Actual loaded guns in the school and they shot at targets.  My point is that at some point there became this unwavering ideology of the ar15 is the fault.  If no one was allowed an ar15 then none of this would ever happen.  Now that logic is out the window, what’s next?
  • vaggar99
    vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,431
    Karate here.  Karate here.  Karate never here
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,831
    fife said:
    JimmyV said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    YOU ARE NOT an anti gunner if you want common sense gun laws...

    We in Canada have decent gun laws.  Plenty of people I know still hunt and enjoy and they never complain about such nuisances as trigger locks, proper gun storage...etc.  
    Just want to repeat this Bolded part. 
    It can't be repeated enough. Gun ownership is not the problem. American gun culture is.
    could you not say that gun ownership is a part of gun culture?  like when you have people who own many guns. 
    Why does the number of guns matter?
    why is someone who owns 10 guns and problem  locks them up in a safe just as much or more of a problem than the guy who owns 2 and shoved them under his bed for his teenage kid to find?
  • mattsl1983
    mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    mace1229 said:
    fife said:
    JimmyV said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    YOU ARE NOT an anti gunner if you want common sense gun laws...

    We in Canada have decent gun laws.  Plenty of people I know still hunt and enjoy and they never complain about such nuisances as trigger locks, proper gun storage...etc.  
    Just want to repeat this Bolded part. 
    It can't be repeated enough. Gun ownership is not the problem. American gun culture is.
    could you not say that gun ownership is a part of gun culture?  like when you have people who own many guns. 
    Why does the number of guns matter?
    why is someone who owns 10 guns and problem  locks them up in a safe just as much or more of a problem than the guy who owns 2 and shoved them under his bed for his teenage kid to find?
    Shhh, you can’t ask that level headed of a question here.  Seriously I agree one hundred precent.  The problem with the question you just asked is you will never get a direct answer, and that’s the f’n truth about gun control.  We never get to the meat and potatoes about it, everyone does a dancing nancies routine of what they think someone will like or agree with.  It’s a f’n shame.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    mattsl1983 said:
    mace1229 said:
    fife said:
    JimmyV said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    YOU ARE NOT an anti gunner if you want common sense gun laws...

    We in Canada have decent gun laws.  Plenty of people I know still hunt and enjoy and they never complain about such nuisances as trigger locks, proper gun storage...etc.  
    Just want to repeat this Bolded part. 
    It can't be repeated enough. Gun ownership is not the problem. American gun culture is.
    could you not say that gun ownership is a part of gun culture?  like when you have people who own many guns. 
    Why does the number of guns matter?
    why is someone who owns 10 guns and problem  locks them up in a safe just as much or more of a problem than the guy who owns 2 and shoved them under his bed for his teenage kid to find?
    Shhh, you can’t ask that level headed of a question here.  Seriously I agree one hundred precent.  The problem with the question you just asked is you will never get a direct answer, and that’s the f’n truth about gun control.  We never get to the meat and potatoes about it, everyone does a dancing nancies routine of what they think someone will like or agree with.  It’s a f’n shame.
    That's baloney, just because you don't like what people have to say, that doesn't mean they aren't saying anything.
    You talk about meat and potatoes?  Seriously?  You are a hit and run poster, you drop in with controversial and aggressive comments and then dip out and never ever give a direct answer to the level headed questions asked of you.  Look in the mirror if you want to see dancing Nancies.

    You can post however you want, I don't care, but don't expect to chastise these boards for a lack of substance without someone pointing out the extreme hypocrisy of it.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    mace1229 said:
    fife said:
    JimmyV said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    YOU ARE NOT an anti gunner if you want common sense gun laws...

    We in Canada have decent gun laws.  Plenty of people I know still hunt and enjoy and they never complain about such nuisances as trigger locks, proper gun storage...etc.  
    Just want to repeat this Bolded part. 
    It can't be repeated enough. Gun ownership is not the problem. American gun culture is.
    could you not say that gun ownership is a part of gun culture?  like when you have people who own many guns. 
    Why does the number of guns matter?
    why is someone who owns 10 guns and problem  locks them up in a safe just as much or more of a problem than the guy who owns 2 and shoved them under his bed for his teenage kid to find?
    It doesn't matter specifically, it matters generally.
    The problem being discussed is gun culture, and a gun culture which places no concern on the number of firearms owned is one that has few limits at all.
    My survivalist neighbor may or may not have his stockpile secured, and he may or may not be violent, but that's anecdotal.  Across a large population with a completely unchecked gun culture, many violent people will have access to firearms which can injure 500+ people in 10 minutes.
    Number of guns owned certainly mattered in Las Vegas.

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,262
    mattsl1983 said:
    mace1229 said:
    fife said:
    JimmyV said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    YOU ARE NOT an anti gunner if you want common sense gun laws...

    We in Canada have decent gun laws.  Plenty of people I know still hunt and enjoy and they never complain about such nuisances as trigger locks, proper gun storage...etc.  
    Just want to repeat this Bolded part. 
    It can't be repeated enough. Gun ownership is not the problem. American gun culture is.
    could you not say that gun ownership is a part of gun culture?  like when you have people who own many guns. 
    Why does the number of guns matter?
    why is someone who owns 10 guns and problem  locks them up in a safe just as much or more of a problem than the guy who owns 2 and shoved them under his bed for his teenage kid to find?
    Shhh, you can’t ask that level headed of a question here.  Seriously I agree one hundred precent.  The problem with the question you just asked is you will never get a direct answer, and that’s the f’n truth about gun control.  We never get to the meat and potatoes about it, everyone does a dancing nancies routine of what they think someone will like or agree with.  It’s a f’n shame.
    “Responsible” until they’re not. Dancing Nancies like “most.”

     http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-safe-gun-storage-20180221-story.html
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,599
    mattsl1983 said:
    mace1229 said:
    fife said:
    JimmyV said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    YOU ARE NOT an anti gunner if you want common sense gun laws...

    We in Canada have decent gun laws.  Plenty of people I know still hunt and enjoy and they never complain about such nuisances as trigger locks, proper gun storage...etc.  
    Just want to repeat this Bolded part. 
    It can't be repeated enough. Gun ownership is not the problem. American gun culture is.
    could you not say that gun ownership is a part of gun culture?  like when you have people who own many guns. 
    Why does the number of guns matter?
    why is someone who owns 10 guns and problem  locks them up in a safe just as much or more of a problem than the guy who owns 2 and shoved them under his bed for his teenage kid to find?
    Shhh, you can’t ask that level headed of a question here.  Seriously I agree one hundred precent.  The problem with the question you just asked is you will never get a direct answer, and that’s the f’n truth about gun control.  We never get to the meat and potatoes about it, everyone does a dancing nancies routine of what they think someone will like or agree with.  It’s a f’n shame.
    More bullshit. The simple answer to the simple question is that there are TOO MANY FUCKING GUNS FLOATING AROUND HOUSEHOLDS ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES. Anyone keeping a small arsenal in their home is part of the problem.

    It's not "our fault." It never was.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,410
    mattsl1983 said:
    brianlux said:
    What's your point here matts?  To instigate and, as Meltdown said, to lump everyone into two distinct camps?  This kind of thread produces no results other than yet another AMT thread shoot-out.


    My point is, singling out this idea that a gun is responsible is not only irrgonorant but also offensive.  Guns have been a part of American culture since day one.  Why now all of a sudden are guns to blame for shootings?  It’s an honest question.  High schools used to have shooting teams.  Actual loaded guns in the school and they shot at targets.  My point is that at some point there became this unwavering ideology of the ar15 is the fault.  If no one was allowed an ar15 then none of this would ever happen.  Now that logic is out the window, what’s next?
    Guns have been a part of every society and culture around the world since their inception, but only one country seems to have perpetuated a reckless and seemingly unrestricted right to own guns, no matter what the implications of this right. Do we really need to rehash the history of guns and their historical evolution both in efficiency and usage since the 1700's for you to understand why a problem that didn't exist 50 years ago is now so prevalent? 

    Based on this, then we also shouldn't ban bump stocks because they aren't used in every mass shooting. Where is this unwavering ideology you speak of that AR-15's are always at fault? If anything, I think there is definitely an unwavering belief that the AR-15 serves no purpose to the general public and is commonly used in mass shootings so why are we unwilling to make a change to the access needed to acquire one? I don't think anyone here is naive enough to believe the banning of an AR-15 style weapon will stop mass shootings.

    What is really baffling is your unwavering support for continued unfettered ownership of weapons that can kill a lot of people very quickly.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    mace1229 said:
    fife said:
    JimmyV said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    YOU ARE NOT an anti gunner if you want common sense gun laws...

    We in Canada have decent gun laws.  Plenty of people I know still hunt and enjoy and they never complain about such nuisances as trigger locks, proper gun storage...etc.  
    Just want to repeat this Bolded part. 
    It can't be repeated enough. Gun ownership is not the problem. American gun culture is.
    could you not say that gun ownership is a part of gun culture?  like when you have people who own many guns. 
    Why does the number of guns matter?
    why is someone who owns 10 guns and problem  locks them up in a safe just as much or more of a problem than the guy who owns 2 and shoved them under his bed for his teenage kid to find?

    It matters because it reflects a really weird fixation on guns. 

    The US is messed. One of two things is certain: gun nuts have no idea they are gun nuts... or gun nuts don't give a shit how ridiculous they present themselves as.

    Come to think of it, it might actually be a combination of the two items: Cletus is a moron without any personal awareness and truly believes he needs advanced weaponry for a zombie invasion (or hostile government takeover). His passion supersedes the need to protect society.

    **** When comparing data comparing gun deaths in the US to other countries (which is like comparing t-ball to the major leagues)... the lone and distinguishing variable working against the US is... gun ownership. The US has too many guns. More guns equals more deaths by guns.

    What a joke. The poster below you said something like, "Ya see. Ya see ya just can't have a decent conversation with these folks. They just don't get it." Well f**king duh. What's to get?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    mace1229 said:
    fife said:
    JimmyV said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    YOU ARE NOT an anti gunner if you want common sense gun laws...

    We in Canada have decent gun laws.  Plenty of people I know still hunt and enjoy and they never complain about such nuisances as trigger locks, proper gun storage...etc.  
    Just want to repeat this Bolded part. 
    It can't be repeated enough. Gun ownership is not the problem. American gun culture is.
    could you not say that gun ownership is a part of gun culture?  like when you have people who own many guns. 
    Why does the number of guns matter?
    why is someone who owns 10 guns and problem  locks them up in a safe just as much or more of a problem than the guy who owns 2 and shoved them under his bed for his teenage kid to find?

    Since you ask me the question here is my answer (it sounds alot like 30 posts).  last time I checked there were roughly 310 million guns in the states.  that is about 89 guns for everyone 100 people.  there was a PEW research in 2017 that said that 66% of gun owners have more than one gun at home.  for me that shows that gun owners do have a fixation on owing or having many guns and I do believe that it is a part of the gun culture. 

    I don't think this is really controversial. 



  • mattsl1983
    mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    Meltdown99 said:
    Why does someone get classified an anti-gunner just because they want common sense gun laws?
    What is common sense gun laws?  It sounds really good to say, but what exactly is it?  I’ll stand behind you 100 percent if it’s good, but no one actually defines common sense gun laws.  And as a heads up, have some research behind what it is and what you are saying is common sense gun laws.  As a person speaking to you that believes I the 2nd amendment, I’m also a none gu owner.  I have nothing to win or gain in this debate aside my ideology of the 2nd amendment.  I’ve been wrong before and my world didn’t crash down.  But what is common sense gun laws?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    mattsl1983 said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    Why does someone get classified an anti-gunner just because they want common sense gun laws?
    What is common sense gun laws?  It sounds really good to say, but what exactly is it?  I’ll stand behind you 100 percent if it’s good, but no one actually defines common sense gun laws.  And as a heads up, have some research behind what it is and what you are saying is common sense gun laws.  As a person speaking to you that believes I the 2nd amendment, I’m also a none gu owner.  I have nothing to win or gain in this debate aside my ideology of the 2nd amendment.  I’ve been wrong before and my world didn’t crash down.  But what is common sense gun laws?
    There are hundreds of pages full of suggestions for common sense gun laws here.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    rgambs said:
    mattsl1983 said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    Why does someone get classified an anti-gunner just because they want common sense gun laws?
    What is common sense gun laws?  It sounds really good to say, but what exactly is it?  I’ll stand behind you 100 percent if it’s good, but no one actually defines common sense gun laws.  And as a heads up, have some research behind what it is and what you are saying is common sense gun laws.  As a person speaking to you that believes I the 2nd amendment, I’m also a none gu owner.  I have nothing to win or gain in this debate aside my ideology of the 2nd amendment.  I’ve been wrong before and my world didn’t crash down.  But what is common sense gun laws?
    There are hundreds of pages full of suggestions for common sense gun laws here.
    Yeah bro, you been under a rock Matt? Lol
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,641
    Yeah let’s keep researching the answers might come to us by the next massacre !
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    More intense thoughts and prayers.

    The laws should insist on really speaking nicely to the lord after the massacres (in case he was all pissy after fighting with Satan or something).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,599
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    More intense thoughts and prayers.

    The laws should insist on really speaking nicely to the lord after the massacres (in case he was all pissy after fighting with Satan or something).
    It really is our fault that we didn't think and pray hard enough.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    mattsl1983 said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    Why does someone get classified an anti-gunner just because they want common sense gun laws?
    What is common sense gun laws?  It sounds really good to say, but what exactly is it?  I’ll stand behind you 100 percent if it’s good, but no one actually defines common sense gun laws.  And as a heads up, have some research behind what it is and what you are saying is common sense gun laws.  As a person speaking to you that believes I the 2nd amendment, I’m also a none gu owner.  I have nothing to win or gain in this debate aside my ideology of the 2nd amendment.  I’ve been wrong before and my world didn’t crash down.  But what is common sense gun laws?
    It's hard to take you seriously with a post like this. Go over to the gun violence thread and read up, you might learn something.

    In fact, mods should merge this thread with the gun violence thread....this one is redundant. 


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