2017/18 NBA Thread

tempo_n_groove said:

Wobbie said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Wobbie said:

LBJ > MJ

Stop it. I’m the biggest lebron fanboy there is but he’s not better than MJ. He’s not better than Kobe...

i measure thst in championships. As a player in general though? Lebron all the way. 

I'm confused....I measure it "as a player in general" also. LBJ > MJ, even if he will never match him in rings. you agree with that?

BTW, I didn't think last night's shot had a prayer

The "as a player in general" means the player.  Lebron is the best player I've seen hands down.  MJ is the greatest though because of what he did in the finals.  It's A really tough dilemma but it's fun to talk about.

So I agree that LBJ is better than Jordan, yes.  I started saying that a while ago by just the things that he accomplished/did as a player.

MJ is the best because when he went to the finals he was an assassin...

My Mt Rushmore is Magic, MJ, Kobe and Lebron.

Okay, Let me start off by saying I don't think I will ever move from MJ being the GOAT, but Lebron is my number 2 as of now. What he has done this year has lifted him definitively into outright number 2.
It's very hard to compare players with multitudes of considerations (Eras/rules/competition) but I've never watched a player with the competitive drive that Jordan had. His utter ruthlessness was well known. The league was tougher to play in the 90's, FACT, and I'm not saying that makes it better, just that players were hit harder than they are now and took more of a pounding throughout the season

Unfortunately boxscore stats mean nothing nowadays, as if you watch games now, players get an assist for passing it to a player, who then dribbles and creates his own shot, but passer is still given an assist. The interpretation of the rule has changed and those stats are worthless now. That's why we see so many more Triple doubles....anyway i digress

My larger point is that Jordan through the 90's was never required to play like LBJ has done, as he had Pippen to carry the Point forward role. MJ's role was to score and defend for the most part. Yes, Jordan has some very good team mates in Pippen and Rodman, but anyone else was just a role player, with maybe the exception of Horace Grant and Toni Kukoc. John Paxson/Bj Armstong were no better than anyone that has played pg in Lebron's teams, same with Ron Harper. MJ played with no dominant centre ever. The main difference was that the Bulls players new their roles and perfected them. I can't say that Lebron has ever gotten that consistently out of his Cavs team. I think the main difference is that Jordan got more out of his team mates than any other player. He demanded excellence.

And for mine, I think Kobe is very good, but he's not top 5 ever. Kareem, Larry Bird, Timmy Duncan all are above him for me

LBJ, 2 more assists average over his career than ball hog jordan.

The Juggler said:

Wobbie said:

LBJ, 2 more assists average over his career than ball hog jordan.

That’s because Lebron has basically been a point forward his entire career. 

I don’t remember people in the 90’s constantly feeling the need to prove that MJ was the greatest ever after every single game he played. I find all this talk annoying. Social media and proliferation of sports debates shows, obviously, are the main reasons. 

“obviously”

No Coder said:

The Juggler said:

Wobbie said:

LBJ, 2 more assists average over his career than ball hog jordan.

That’s because Lebron has basically been a point forward his entire career. 

I don’t remember people in the 90’s constantly feeling the need to prove that MJ was the greatest ever after every single game he played. I find all this talk annoying. Social media and proliferation of sports debates shows, obviously, are the main reasons. 

100% correct. As much as I love watching some of these shows, I avoid most talk on MVP/GOAT/ROY etc, as in the end, it's just a person's opinion. And to be honest, most on social media chiming on on these debates, might watch 3 highlight reels of basketball a week, check a boxscore and form an opinion., but have no real understanding on good team basketball.

My only detraction from LBJ is that I don't think he has made many of his team mates better. I do think he is a GREAT player, but less so as a leader. I can't recall Jordan ever going public with dissatisfaction with the Bulls roster

100%

tempo_n_groove said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I don't even think I could do an "in my lifetime" NBA Rushmore.  How do you take only 4 from:  Jordan, Magic, Bird, Olajuwon, Shaq, Duncan, Erving, Iverson, Kareem, Miller, Kobe, Lebron, Allen.

One was great but a ball hog and the other was a 3 point specialist.  These two really have no business on this list and I LOVED Iverson.

No Barkley, Robinson, Thomas or Ewing?  Those 4 are worth of a discussion too but don't belong on the Rushmore...

Definitely all worthy of discussion. But yeah, that's a fair assessment. Could throw Wilkins in there, too.  Stockton, Malone, Moses Malone, McHale, Pippen. Those names could be on the Rushmore ballot, but probably not checked.

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Wobbie said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Wobbie said:

LBJ > MJ

Stop it. I’m the biggest lebron fanboy there is but he’s not better than MJ. He’s not better than Kobe...

i measure thst in championships. As a player in general though? Lebron all the way. 

I'm confused....I measure it "as a player in general" also. LBJ > MJ, even if he will never match him in rings. you agree with that?

BTW, I didn't think last night's shot had a prayer

The "as a player in general" means the player.  Lebron is the best player I've seen hands down.  MJ is the greatest though because of what he did in the finals.  It's A really tough dilemma but it's fun to talk about.

So I agree that LBJ is better than Jordan, yes.  I started saying that a while ago by just the things that he accomplished/did as a player.

MJ is the best because when he went to the finals he was an assassin...

My Mt Rushmore is Magic, MJ, Kobe and Lebron.

No Wilt Chamberlain on your Mt. Rushmore? Oscar Robertson?  Or, is your Mt. Rushmore based on players you've seen during your lifetime? (If so, that's a really good list).

The reason there is no Robertson is because he won only one title.  No Chamberlin because he had no real competition and didn't win a title until he started playing as a team player(he had Russell, I know but that was only one person).  No George Mikan because there was no one like him at the time so his dominance was unmatched.

To be a "great" or a Rushmore type you had to win more than 2 titles and competed amongst the best of your piers.

Jordan, Magic, Kobe and Lebron all did that. 

Bird and Russell were/are hard to leave off that list.  Jabbar created a shot that no one could block so he amassed the most points in history.

I could go on and on...

Oh, the old NO Championships so there not great, reason. I guess Robert Horry should be on the list since he won 7 Titles>LOL>What about Steve Kerr(5 Titles, i think he won)>HA>(I had to throw that out to you, man.) But, that's your definition of who belongs on your Mt. Rushmore and i respect that.

I know basketball guys who are a lot older then me, and they ALL say Wilt Chamberlain has to be on the list of one of, if not the best, to ever play the game.

I think Bird was a better over-all player then Kobe, and i do not like the Celtics(76ers fan here).

I posted that video clip of Wilt blocking Jabbar's shot a few times, so another reason he's has to be on your Mt. Rushmore

HesCalledDyer said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I don't even think I could do an "in my lifetime" NBA Rushmore.  How do you take only 4 from:  Jordan, Magic, Bird, Olajuwon, Shaq, Duncan, Erving, Iverson, Kareem, Miller, Kobe, Lebron, Allen.

One was great but a ball hog and the other was a 3 point specialist.  These two really have no business on this list and I LOVED Iverson.

No Barkley, Robinson, Thomas or Ewing?  Those 4 are worth of a discussion too but don't belong on the Rushmore...

Definitely all worthy of discussion. But yeah, that's a fair assessment. Could throw Wilkins in there, too.  Stockton, Malone, Moses Malone, McHale, Pippen. Those names could be on the Rushmore ballot, but probably not checked.

If you're throwing out those names, then Barkley has to be in ther too, i think. But, none are near Mt. Rushmore and i loved Barkley.

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

No Coder said:

The Juggler said:

Wobbie said:

LBJ, 2 more assists average over his career than ball hog jordan.

That’s because Lebron has basically been a point forward his entire career. 

I don’t remember people in the 90’s constantly feeling the need to prove that MJ was the greatest ever after every single game he played. I find all this talk annoying. Social media and proliferation of sports debates shows, obviously, are the main reasons. 

100% correct. As much as I love watching some of these shows, I avoid most talk on MVP/GOAT/ROY etc, as in the end, it's just a person's opinion. And to be honest, most on social media chiming on on these debates, might watch 3 highlight reels of basketball a week, check a boxscore and form an opinion., but have no real understanding on good team basketball.

My only detraction from LBJ is that I don't think he has made many of his team mates better. I do think he is a GREAT player, but less so as a leader. I can't recall Jordan ever going public with dissatisfaction with the Bulls roster

This is the new non confrontational call out method.  It's used by the coaches too.  Phil Jackson was a master at it but it backfired with Carmelo and the Knicks.

You didn't notice LBJ keep driving deep then dumping to the hot handed Smith?  That's a player that knows where to get the ball.  He led last night.

Yeah, i agree with Tempo here. He' makes passes that almost no player whoever played the game, to teammates for easy baskets. 

Again, not doubting his skill as a player or passer. Yes he finds open players, but when I say doesn't make his team mates better, I'm talking as a whole, not when on a hot streak in a game. This is also on the coaches he has played for (less so at Heat). Guys like Tristian Thompson, who LBJ pushed the Cavs HARD to sign to this ridiculous contract, have gone backwards. 

And there are a pretty good list of names that pass the ball as well, or better than Lebron, which doesn't diminish that he is a great passer, just disagreeing with the statement "He' makes passes that almost no player whoever played the game".  Magic, Nash, Stockton, Kidd, Rubio (great passer), The Big O, Jason Williams, Chris Paul, Bill Walton, Sabonis,Pistol Pete, Larry Bird and new players like Simmons, Jokic and Ball will be in the discussion too