Western media lies about Syria exposed (Canadian journalist Eva Bartlett)
Comments
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my2hands said:I'm not attacking anybody... I'm attacking nonsense fake news propaganda... cheerleading for Assad the Peacemaker... I mean c'mon
If you cared so much about the Syrian people you would show a little more concern for them being oppressed, tortured, murdered, incarcerated, raped, bombed, and gassed by their own leader and government, who has also invited the Russian military to the slaughter party...
You refuse to recognize basic facts such as Arab spring protests, the resulting crackdown, international reporters being on the ground in Syria at any time, documented atrocities committed by the Assad regime, use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime, and your star witness being a blogger for RT who's an Assad/Putin lapdog...
Now, as far as the destabilization of the region by western meddling and the invasion of Iraq, we agree... but we all know that shit goes way back... red lining... the shah... etc... etc... etc... but anyway, I didn't support the Iraq war... still dont... haven't supported any war in my lifetime really... I think W and Cheney are legitimate war criminals for the authorization/ordering of torture and black sites... I think Guantanamo is fucking disgusting and a violation of basic human civil rights... I was alive and well in those years and posted here, so you can see I've been consistent on that from jump street... im no johnny come lately... but just because Nazi Germany and Euro Fascism ultimately grew out of the ashes of WW1 and international isolationism doesn't mean you ignore the problem because it could have been avoided... evil simply cannot be ignored
Also, you've never seen me advocate for any missile strike or military strike of any kind... I honestly dont know what I would support or what's appropriate in this situation... but I believe there are times in life when the powerful need to protect the powerless...
The same reason society needs police, who sometimes have to take drastic action with deadly force, the world is not currently some magical utopia where all 7 billion of us get along and smoke joints around a camp fire, unfortunately... we can talk about peace all we want... we can dream like John Lennon... but unfortunately its still just a fucking dream, to think otherwise is naive and unrealistic...
I believe in love... I believe in peace... but I know the opposite also exists in this world
Just be glad none of us need a gasmask
you just continue to say the same things ... propaganda, fake news, russian trolls ... where is the critical thinking? ... how do you respond when robert fisk says there was no chemical attack? ...
actually ... i really only have one question ... why do you (and others) want to believe so bad that Assad is an evil dictator!?? ... why? ... what is it? ... it's clear you (nor I) really know ... all we can do is look at the information available to us and decide ... but you refuse to look at the other side ... I don't understand that at all ... it's mind boggling to me that people are so convinced with a narrative that has proven time and time again to be false ..
i speak of libya here ... would you disagree there is suffering there? ... i speak of yemen - do you think that is a good situation where the saudis use white phosphorous on the civilians? ... it's in all these places that i drives me to educate myself ...
if you truly believe in peace ... you would think you would listen to what the US peace council believes or the Canadian Peace Congress ... or at the very least explore all the information so that what you allow to occur in the name of your country is just and right ...
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mcgruff10 said:
By Anthony Deutsch
THE HAGUE (Reuters) - Western countries accused Moscow on Monday of preventing inspectors from reaching the site of a suspected poison gas attack in Syria and said Russians or Syrians may have tampered with evidence on the ground.
The United States, Britain and France launched air strikes on Saturday against what they described as three Syrian chemical weapons targets in retaliation for a suspected gas attack that killed scores of people in the Damascus suburb of Douma on April 7.
Syria and its ally Russia deny using poison gas during their offensive this month, in which they seized the town that had been the last major rebel stronghold near the capital.
Inspectors from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) went to Syria last week to inspect the Douma site but have yet to gain access to the town, which is now under government control after the rebels withdrew.
"It is our understanding the Russians may have visited the attack site," U.S. Ambassador Kenneth Ward said at a meeting of the OPCW in The Hague on Monday.
"It is our concern that they may have tampered with it with the intent of thwarting the efforts of the OPCW Fact-Finding Mission to conduct an effective investigation," he said. His comments at the closed-door meeting were obtained by Reuters.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov denied that Moscow had interfered with any evidence: "I can guarantee that Russia has not tampered with the site," he told the BBC in an interview.
Earlier, Britain's delegation to the OPCW accused Russia and the Syrian government of preventing the international watchdog's inspectors from reaching Douma.
The inspectors aim to collect samples, interview witnesses and document evidence to determine whether banned toxic munitions were used, although they are not permitted to assign blame for the attack.
"Unfettered access is essential," the British delegation said in a statement. "Russia and Syria must cooperate."
Moscow blamed the delay on the Western air strikes. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the British accusation that Russia was to blame for holding up the inspections was "groundless".
"We called for an objective investigation. This was at the very beginning after this information [of the attack] appeared. Therefore allegations of this towards Russia are groundless," Peskov said.
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Drowned Out said:oh I’m sure you know my position. We’ve been aligned for the most part on this topic since day one. In the end, Assad should remain in power for now. I am 100% opposed to US military action in the region. I just know that no world leader is innocent, so like you I support what I feel is best for the Syrian people. Ousting Assad with no viable plan To support those people would be a nightmare right now.
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polaris_x said:ABC's Diane Sawyer's piece on Syria and Assad in 2007 ... pre-regime change campaign ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=12&v=lpN8zp3oHc80 -
my2hands said:Cool, I watched it, Anthony Bourdain is a much better travel host... what does it prove?
here is a letter written by the christian church ...
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polaris_x said:my2hands said:
Just be glad none of us need a gasmaskpolaris_x said:just quickly ... that timeline looks like its sourced from the same manipulative organizations ... if you are quoting human rights watch - it's problematic .. i posted all the OPCW reports on Syria ...
also note this ... Syria had chemical weapons no doubt but they've also been at war with terrorists ... possible that some of the stockpiles in the hands of terrorists before OPCW disposal ..
also look for Robert Fisk's report on Douma ... msm journalist from the independent who has been waging their war on Syria went into Douma today ...It's a hopeless situation...0 -
here is another version of the chemical attacks timelines with links ...
https://original.antiwar.com/sahimi/2018/04/14/who-is-the-real-culprit-behind-the-chemical-attacks-in-syria-a-brief-history/
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So John Kerry lied? John Kerry? You know, the one who asked about being the last one to die for a lie? That John Kerry? Fuck.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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tbergs said:Germany? Russia had the largest stockpile and the US was second, but both countries have now destroyed over 90% of their chemical weapons with completion expected by 2023.
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polaris_x said:here is another version of the chemical attacks timelines with links ...
https://original.antiwar.com/sahimi/2018/04/14/who-is-the-real-culprit-behind-the-chemical-attacks-in-syria-a-brief-history/It's a hopeless situation...0 -
polaris_x said:here is another version of the chemical attacks timelines with links ...
https://original.antiwar.com/sahimi/2018/04/14/who-is-the-real-culprit-behind-the-chemical-attacks-in-syria-a-brief-history/09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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polaris_x said:i'm thinking the US use of napalm, white phosporous, depleted uranium, agent orange, etc... not sure if du is considered chemical or nuclear ...
My guess as to who has used the most amount of chemical warfare would be germany, france or england during world war 1.
check that, gotta by the nazis during world war 2. there's your winner..ding ding.Post edited by mcgruff10 onI'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
mcgruff10 said:I wouldn't' consider napalm a chemical weapon. Agent orange had bad side effects but it was supposed to kill vegetation, there was no immediate effect on people so definitely a gray area on whether or not it was a chemical weapon.
My guess as to who has used the most amount of chemical warfare would be germany, france or england during world war 1.
check that, gotta by the nazis during world war 2. there's your winner..ding ding.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
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benjs said:Visit Vietnam and argue that Agent Orange wasn't a chemical weapon. If the side effects weren't known by American scientists (either immediate or long-term), there was no right for it to be dropped while still maintaining a claim of not participating in chemical warfare. That's negligence, plain and simple.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0
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mcgruff10 said:Yeah I should have included that I don't think scientists knew about the side effects at the time so when it was being used I don't think it was a chemical weapon. In retrospect it was a 100% chemical weapon. Make sense?
Hitler actually refrained from using a lot of his stockpiles on the battlefield, but didn't hold back at the concentration camps so if you want to discuss who killed the most people, then definitely the Nazis; however, the US probably has the record for most used in war if considering Napalm. Both terrible historical records to hold.
It's a hopeless situation...0 -
tbergs said:Agent Orange is technically a herbicide and not considered a chemical weapon even by OPCW standards. That doesn't mean it wasn't used negligently and with the knowledge that it could also harm people, but if were merely talking about chemical weapons then it's not. Napalm is often classified as a chemical weapon and estimates are that we dropped about 400,000 tons of the shit in Vietnam. Insane and horrendous.
Hitler actually refrained from using a lot of his stockpiles on the battlefield, but didn't hold back at the concentration camps so if you want to discuss who killed the most people, then definitely the Nazis; however, the US probably has the record for most used in war if considering Napalm. Both terrible historical records to hold.
What makes napalm a chemical weapon? I thought it was outlawed after Vietnam?
Post edited by mcgruff10 onI'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
mcgruff10 said:Yeah I should have included that I don't think scientists knew about the side effects at the time so when it was being used I don't think it was a chemical weapon. In retrospect it was a 100% chemical weapon. Make sense?'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
benjs said:The fact that Agent Orange was dropped means one of two things - either the chemical's impact to humans wasn't studied, or the chemical's impact to humans was not a concern. Either way, that's chemical warfare. People didn't care about Vietnamese humans, and couldn't be bothered to check whether this chemical would screw them up before exposing them to it.jesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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josevolution said:Agreed but take into consideration that back then info wasn’t as readily available as it is today , the internet has played a major role in getting info to the public ..'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10
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