Dying alone
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My curiosity is often engaged when I read about or hear people talk about counseling. In the 90's I needed counseling in a bad way. I saw a number of different counselors yet nothing seemed to be changing, I wasn't getting any better. So when I heard about a counseling training program called Human Services at our local college I decided to get into that program and see if I could learn something new. I did indeed (and in fact, after earning my degree and Human Services certificate, I went on to work as program assistant in that program for a number of years).
I can't summarize everything I learned in that program in a few paragraphs but some of the main points that seem most important to me from what I learned and taught are:
-We used Carl Rogers' person-centered therapy which relies a lot on the client taking an active role in his or her treatment with the therapist using empathy and being supportive. (Of course it's much more complex than that and worth looking up.)
-I found that short term, productive counseling with the goal of finding good coping methods as opposed to focusing on a causal past is more effective than long-term talking therapy (or what we sometimes referred to as "Hollywood Therapy"). That latter kind of therapy is great for the counselor's pay check but only helps most clients for brief periods of time leading to a nearly endless cycle of repeated visits.
-Use of strength "challenging" (helping someone discover their strengths).
-Helping a person "pick up their own penny"- a term the lead prof used to described guiding a client toward finding their own solutions and strengths rather than just handing them to them. When we discover our own strengths, those revelations stay with us much longer and better.
I also found that good counseling does not rely on asking questions. Clients subconsciously want to please their counselor so answers to questions often do not reveal what is really going on. In our counseling practice sessions, student helpers were literally never allowed to ask their practice "clients" any questions.
The other thing we frequently did was challenge a client when they said something like "it (or he or she, etc.) makes me feel" (and student helpers who used such terms were admonished for doing so). "It makes me" is very dis-empowering. The idea is to move someone from saying something like "My husband makes me feel inferior when he says I don't work hard enough." to the more accurate "I feel put down when my wife tells me I don't work hard enough". You may not change your husband, but you can change how you respond to your feelings. Things like that are subtle but powerful.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
hedonist said:Thoughts_Arrive said:I'm a disappointment to my parents. They're elderly now, dad 70, mum 68. They think they have another 10 years left alive and I guess they're sad that they believe they'll never see me get married and have kids. I have no desire to be a dad. I don't think I am fit for parenthood given my baggage. My nieces are now old enough to ask "why doesn't uncle have a girlfriend?".
As for online dating, not keen. Tinder is just a fuck fest. As for dating sites, I have nothing interesting to say about me on my profile nor any good photos (I don't get my photo taken often, very rarely). What can I say, 34, lives at home still, hardly any friends, never had a girlfriend. Red flags.
B, wise words - made me think of Tull's Nothing is Easy. Because nothing is!Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
brianlux said:Thoughts_Arrive said:There's also the speculation on my sexual orientation, people think never having had a girlfriend makes me gay.
I've had the same situation a number of times in my life. I don't know what it is, but several people have mistaken me for being gay. I've had guys try to pick me up. Even my wife has told me she thought I was gay when we first met! That kind of thing used to bug me but now just figure well, maybe it's supposed to be a compliment. I mean, after all, I've had some very cool gay friends and although I'm not inclined towards having sex with other men, I don't mind at all that some men do- or that some women prefer women- it's all a matter of personal taste and it's all fine either way. But the bottom line- it's noboy's damn business either way.
Also, I've had guys call me "ma'am" a number of times. What's with that?! My hair? Am I a bit "hippie"? (My wife claims the word came from mamas with big hips who wear beads and such, but I think it originated as a spin off from the beatnik use of "hip"). Well, whatever. I just shrug it off. Besides, how many women have a soul patch (etc.!)?
Yeah, for sure it can be annoying when people say things about you that aren't true. But just remember that if they say things that are derisive or ridiculing, they are the ones with the problem, not you. Best not to give those people your time or energy.
Hedo- love that Tull song, "Nothing is Easy"!Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
lastexitlondon said:brianlux said:Thoughts_Arrive said:There's also the speculation on my sexual orientation, people think never having had a girlfriend makes me gay.
I've had the same situation a number of times in my life. I don't know what it is, but several people have mistaken me for being gay. I've had guys try to pick me up. Even my wife has told me she thought I was gay when we first met! That kind of thing used to bug me but now just figure well, maybe it's supposed to be a compliment. I mean, after all, I've had some very cool gay friends and although I'm not inclined towards having sex with other men, I don't mind at all that some men do- or that some women prefer women- it's all a matter of personal taste and it's all fine either way. But the bottom line- it's noboy's damn business either way.
Also, I've had guys call me "ma'am" a number of times. What's with that?! My hair? Am I a bit "hippie"? (My wife claims the word came from mamas with big hips who wear beads and such, but I think it originated as a spin off from the beatnik use of "hip"). Well, whatever. I just shrug it off. Besides, how many women have a soul patch (etc.!)?
Yeah, for sure it can be annoying when people say things about you that aren't true. But just remember that if they say things that are derisive or ridiculing, they are the ones with the problem, not you. Best not to give those people your time or energy.
Hedo- love that Tull song, "Nothing is Easy"!
But find it a bit upsetting because i couldn't be straighter . I love females and i have no desire whatsoever for the same sex never have.
What is with people . T.A you can do anything you wish . You are im a great position. No over heads . Living the life you choose. You can be anything you have a blank slate to start with. No past baggage. A great situation really. No heart break from past loves. Go for life . However you want to.Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
rgambs said:Thoughts_Arrive said:I'm a disappointment to my parents. They're elderly now, dad 70, mum 68. They think they have another 10 years left alive and I guess they're sad that they believe they'll never see me get married and have kids. I have no desire to be a dad. I don't think I am fit for parenthood given my baggage. My nieces are now old enough to ask "why doesn't uncle have a girlfriend?".
As for online dating, not keen. Tinder is just a fuck fest. As for dating sites, I have nothing interesting to say about me on my profile nor any good photos (I don't get my photo taken often, very rarely). What can I say, 34, lives at home still, hardly any friends, never had a girlfriend. Red flags.
Sex is literally the most exciting and enjoyable activity a human person can engage in!
Second, self-pity is not a feature that wears well on anyone. Do you have interests and hobbies?
Of course you do, and that's what you would put on your dating profile. It's not some game of pretending to be the world's most interesting man, it's about finding someone who sees your interests as interesting because they are interested too. Interesting interestingness.
You don't have any good photos? Well shit, that's a deal breaker, you'll be single forever because there is no possible way you could put on your good clothes, do your hair good, and smile for a selfie on the device currently in your hand.
You fail 100% of the times you don't even try!
I'm looking for a long-term relationship.Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
mcgruff10 said:lastexitlondon said:rgambs said:Thoughts_Arrive said:I'm a disappointment to my parents. They're elderly now, dad 70, mum 68. They think they have another 10 years left alive and I guess they're sad that they believe they'll never see me get married and have kids. I have no desire to be a dad. I don't think I am fit for parenthood given my baggage. My nieces are now old enough to ask "why doesn't uncle have a girlfriend?".
As for online dating, not keen. Tinder is just a fuck fest. As for dating sites, I have nothing interesting to say about me on my profile nor any good photos (I don't get my photo taken often, very rarely). What can I say, 34, lives at home still, hardly any friends, never had a girlfriend. Red flags.
Sex is literally the most exciting and enjoyable activity a human person can engage in!
Second, self-pity is not a feature that wears well on anyone. Do you have interests and hobbies?
Of course you do, and that's what you would put on your dating profile. It's not some game of pretending to be the world's most interesting man, it's about finding someone who sees your interests as interesting because they are interested too. Interesting interestingness.
You don't have any good photos? Well shit, that's a deal breaker, you'll be single forever because there is no possible way you could put on your good clothes, do your hair good, and smile for a selfie on the device currently in your hand.
You fail 100% of the times you don't even try!
I moved out of my parents house when I was 18 only to return when I was going through my divorce at age 32...man did it suck!!!!
I can't wait to leave this house though.
I know in my previous post I mentioned I desire a relationship, I know that right now is not the best time as I really need to focus all my time and effort into my university studies as I need very high grades to be accepted into postgraduate study otherwise my undergraduate degree is all for nothing. I want to graduate with a masters degree and/or a phD to prove to my family I am not dumb and useless. I won't have time to commit to a partner given how much time my homework and study takes to do. When I graduate I am out of this house and looking for love but that won't happen until 2020-2022 :(
The only place I have contact with the opposite sex is at university but they're 13-15 years younger than me. No thanks.Post edited by Thoughts_Arrive onAdelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
tweedyfanjen said:Thoughts_Arrive said:There's also the speculation on my sexual orientation, people think never having had a girlfriend makes me gay.
She says some very nasty things about them and ridicules them.Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
PJ_Soul said:Thoughts_Arrive said:There's also the speculation on my sexual orientation, people think never having had a girlfriend makes me gay.
I agree that moving out of your parents' house would be a good first step.
I get asked all the time by relatives, friends of my parents.
The worst was at a real estate office I was working in for a month or so until I got fired for standing up to a bully.
I got asked every day by one guy, he would always query my singledom.
Then he told me I must masturbate a lot.
I was so shocked I couldn't respond.Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
OffSheGoes35 said:Thoughts_Arrive said:OffSheGoes35 said:Thoughts_Arrive said:OffSheGoes35 said:Thoughts_Arrive, I can see why you would be discouraged after reading that article. Thinking about it, or attempting to anyway, from your point of view instead of my own...
It's pretty rough out there. People have excess baggage like never before.
All you can really do is try your best to be one of those solid men that hedo spoke of, so you'll have the best chance of attracting someone who is also solid.
It prevents me from dating but at the same time it makes it worse as it extends the time I have been single.
I cannot bear to tell any date that I've never been in a relationship.
So, I'm just being friends with guys right now.
And I also feel like a creep, weirdo, monster. Not because I'm alone, but because I just feel like I did everything wrong. And can't take any of it back.
Have you sought counselling to try help you overcome your thoughts and feelings?
I did go see a counselor for almost a year. I never really felt comfortable with her. So I pretty much just kept re-hashing feelings that were only on the surface. I think that probably drove us both a little mad.
Keep trying I guess, it's a lottery.Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
brianlux said:My curiosity is often engaged when I read about or hear people talk about counseling. In the 90's I needed counseling in a bad way. I saw a number of different counselors yet nothing seemed to be changing, I wasn't getting any better. So when I heard about a counseling training program called Human Services at our local college I decided to get into that program and see if I could learn something new. I did indeed (and in fact, after earning my degree and Human Services certificate, I went on to work as program assistant in that program for a number of years).
I can't summarize everything I learned in that program in a few paragraphs but some of the main points that seem most important to me from what I learned and taught are:
-We used Carl Rogers' person-centered therapy which relies a lot on the client taking an active role in his or her treatment with the therapist using empathy and being supportive. (Of course it's much more complex than that and worth looking up.)
-I found that short term, productive counseling with the goal of finding good coping methods as opposed to focusing on a causal past is more effective than long-term talking therapy (or what we sometimes referred to as "Hollywood Therapy"). That latter kind of therapy is great for the counselor's pay check but only helps most clients for brief periods of time leading to a nearly endless cycle of repeated visits.
-Use of strength "challenging" (helping someone discover their strengths).
-Helping a person "pick up their own penny"- a term the lead prof used to described guiding a client toward finding their own solutions and strengths rather than just handing them to them. When we discover our own strengths, those revelations stay with us much longer and better.
I also found that good counseling does not rely on asking questions. Clients subconsciously want to please their counselor so answers to questions often do not reveal what is really going on. In our counseling practice sessions, student helpers were literally never allowed to ask their practice "clients" any questions.
The other thing we frequently did was challenge a client when they said something like "it (or he or she, etc.) makes me feel" (and student helpers who used such terms were admonished for doing so). "It makes me" is very dis-empowering. The idea is to move someone from saying something like "My husband makes me feel inferior when he says I don't work hard enough." to the more accurate "I feel put down when my wife tells me I don't work hard enough". You may not change your husband, but you can change how you respond to your feelings. Things like that are subtle but powerful.
We looked at Carl Rogers and his person centred therapy a few weeks ago.
Paraphrasing and reflection of feelings is powerful.
We watched this video in a lecture:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m30jsZx_Ngs
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
Browsing my news site I stumbled upon this, makes me sad. Makes me scared that when the few friends I have have kids then maybe we may drift apart.
https://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/successful-career-happy-marriage-so-why-don-t-i-have-any-friends-20180405-p4z7vf.html
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
Thoughts_Arrive said:brianlux said:Thoughts_Arrive said:There's also the speculation on my sexual orientation, people think never having had a girlfriend makes me gay.
I've had the same situation a number of times in my life. I don't know what it is, but several people have mistaken me for being gay. I've had guys try to pick me up. Even my wife has told me she thought I was gay when we first met! That kind of thing used to bug me but now just figure well, maybe it's supposed to be a compliment. I mean, after all, I've had some very cool gay friends and although I'm not inclined towards having sex with other men, I don't mind at all that some men do- or that some women prefer women- it's all a matter of personal taste and it's all fine either way. But the bottom line- it's noboy's damn business either way.
Also, I've had guys call me "ma'am" a number of times. What's with that?! My hair? Am I a bit "hippie"? (My wife claims the word came from mamas with big hips who wear beads and such, but I think it originated as a spin off from the beatnik use of "hip"). Well, whatever. I just shrug it off. Besides, how many women have a soul patch (etc.!)?
Yeah, for sure it can be annoying when people say things about you that aren't true. But just remember that if they say things that are derisive or ridiculing, they are the ones with the problem, not you. Best not to give those people your time or energy.
Hedo- love that Tull song, "Nothing is Easy"!
Macho meathead jock types can be gay, too. Pretty much any "type" of person can be gay.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
oftenreading said:Thoughts_Arrive said:brianlux said:Thoughts_Arrive said:There's also the speculation on my sexual orientation, people think never having had a girlfriend makes me gay.
I've had the same situation a number of times in my life. I don't know what it is, but several people have mistaken me for being gay. I've had guys try to pick me up. Even my wife has told me she thought I was gay when we first met! That kind of thing used to bug me but now just figure well, maybe it's supposed to be a compliment. I mean, after all, I've had some very cool gay friends and although I'm not inclined towards having sex with other men, I don't mind at all that some men do- or that some women prefer women- it's all a matter of personal taste and it's all fine either way. But the bottom line- it's noboy's damn business either way.
Also, I've had guys call me "ma'am" a number of times. What's with that?! My hair? Am I a bit "hippie"? (My wife claims the word came from mamas with big hips who wear beads and such, but I think it originated as a spin off from the beatnik use of "hip"). Well, whatever. I just shrug it off. Besides, how many women have a soul patch (etc.!)?
Yeah, for sure it can be annoying when people say things about you that aren't true. But just remember that if they say things that are derisive or ridiculing, they are the ones with the problem, not you. Best not to give those people your time or energy.
Hedo- love that Tull song, "Nothing is Easy"!
Macho meathead jock types can be gay, too. Pretty much any "type" of person can be gay.Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
Thoughts_Arrive said:Browsing my news site I stumbled upon this, makes me sad. Makes me scared that when the few friends I have have kids then maybe we may drift apart.
https://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/successful-career-happy-marriage-so-why-don-t-i-have-any-friends-20180405-p4z7vf.html
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Browsing my news site I stumbled upon this, makes me sad. Makes me scared that when the few friends I have have kids then maybe we may drift apart.
https://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/successful-career-happy-marriage-so-why-don-t-i-have-any-friends-20180405-p4z7vf.html0 -
Bentleyspop said:brianlux said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Browsing my news site I stumbled upon this, makes me sad. Makes me scared that when the few friends I have have kids then maybe we may drift apart.
https://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/successful-career-happy-marriage-so-why-don-t-i-have-any-friends-20180405-p4z7vf.html
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
OffSheGoes35 said:There should be a match.com for counselors/patients.Dublin 2006
Dublin 2010
Madrid 2018
Werchter 2022
London 1 2022
London 2 2022
Krakow 20220 -
ConorKavanagh said:OffSheGoes35 said:There should be a match.com for counselors/patients.0
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brianlux said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Browsing my news site I stumbled upon this, makes me sad. Makes me scared that when the few friends I have have kids then maybe we may drift apart.
https://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/successful-career-happy-marriage-so-why-don-t-i-have-any-friends-20180405-p4z7vf.html
Are there groups you can join in your area that share the same hobbie(s)?
I'd say I have 3 friends and I go back a long way with them.
Sad thing is, life gets in the way.
I haven't seen my old friend from primary (elementary as you say in the US) school in 2 years. Can't believe it's been 2 years.
It's so sad. He invited me to his birthday party in 2 weeks time which I look forward to.
We always talk of catching up but it never happens. I am in my bubble with university trying so hard to make it to honours that I sacrifice a social life and my art/music.
My other friend is also from primary school, once again, life. He's busy with being a singer songwriter and recording music. Last time I saw him was a few months ago at his gig.
My other friend, old neighbour, went to high school with, once again, life. Haven't seen him in 3 months.
Everyone is busy.
But it does feel lonely. I can't just call anyone up and say 'hey let's go out' because they've got their long term girlfriends and are busy with work/life.
I also feel guilty, I closed my Facebook and my friend who I haven't seen in 2 years didn't have my phone number. I became a Luke Skywalker hermit and shut everyone off because I felt like noone cares.
I used to have more "friends" 10 or so years ago but they were never true friends, just drinking/partying buddies that just wanted me around as a going out buddy, no deep and meaningful conversations with them, no real connection, nothing really in common.
If I can see the 3 friends I listed above more often I'd be content in life.
I don't feel like I need 100 friends, just really close friends who I am connected with.
I just fear what will happen when everyone has kids.
I always fear losing the ones I love and it makes me sad.Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
Thoughts_Arrive said:brianlux said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Browsing my news site I stumbled upon this, makes me sad. Makes me scared that when the few friends I have have kids then maybe we may drift apart.
https://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/successful-career-happy-marriage-so-why-don-t-i-have-any-friends-20180405-p4z7vf.html
Are there groups you can join in your area that share the same hobbie(s)?
I'd say I have 3 friends and I go back a long way with them.
Sad thing is, life gets in the way.
I haven't seen my old friend from primary (elementary as you say in the US) school in 2 years. Can't believe it's been 2 years.
It's so sad. He invited me to his birthday party in 2 weeks time which I look forward to.
We always talk of catching up but it never happens. I am in my bubble with university trying so hard to make it to honours that I sacrifice a social life and my art/music.
My other friend is also from primary school, once again, life. He's busy with being a singer songwriter and recording music. Last time I saw him was a few months ago at his gig.
My other friend, old neighbour, went to high school with, once again, life. Haven't seen him in 3 months.
Everyone is busy.
But it does feel lonely. I can't just call anyone up and say 'hey let's go out' because they've got their long term girlfriends and are busy with work/life.
I also feel guilty, I closed my Facebook and my friend who I haven't seen in 2 years didn't have my phone number. I became a Luke Skywalker hermit and shut everyone off because I felt like noone cares.
I used to have more "friends" 10 or so years ago but they were never true friends, just drinking/partying buddies that just wanted me around as a going out buddy, no deep and meaningful conversations with them, no real connection, nothing really in common.
If I can see the 3 friends I listed above more often I'd be content in life.
I don't feel like I need 100 friends, just really close friends who I am connected with.
I just fear what will happen when everyone has kids.
I always fear losing the ones I love and it makes me sad.
A big part of the problem for me is my hearing issues. Because I have hyperacusis, it's really hard to go out to bars, restaurants and especially to live music shows which was such a huge part of my life in the past. Even with earplugs it difficult. The one time I saw Pearl Jam live, I wore ear plugs and industrial head phones and still had pain in my ears for a weak after (but what a show- worth the pain!)
So now I have a number of on-line friends on a few places (especially here on the Ten Club forums) and that makes up the majority of my social life.
I'm thankful for this place and you good people!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
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