I have a question about guns

LongestRoad · April 2018

How come there were no school shootings when guns have been around in America with access to them and in the past
before violent television and especially video games with lots of guns and gun fights, that we have no problem
whatsoever buying for and allowing our children to play??
Kids go on emotions and they don't fully understand death yet we give them access to this violence. How come no one is protesting this?

Go Beavers · April 2018

LongestRoad said:

How come there were no school shootings when guns have been around in America with access to them and in the past
before violent television and especially video games with lots of guns and gun fights, that we have no problem
whatsoever buying for and allowing our children to play??
Kids go on emotions and they don't fully understand death yet we give them access to this violence. How come no one is protesting this?

People have always had issue with violence in the media and in video games, but there’s no connection to those things and violent behavior. When people bring it up now, it seems more like a disingenuine attempt to shift away from gun control legislation. There’s other factors that play a role that include proliferation of guns and therefore greater access to guns. Another is that this same type of offender in the past would likely have been out of school much earlier in their education, either by expulsion ir dropping out. They wouldn’t have a connection to a school and their aggression would have manifested differently. In the past, society was more likely to throw these people away.

HesCalledDyer · April 2018

Thank the NRA.

elvistheking44 · April 2018

HesCalledDyer said:

Thank the NRA.

Wrong.

rgambs · April 2018

LongestRoad said:

How come there were no school shootings when guns have been around in America with access to them and in the past
before violent television and especially video games with lots of guns and gun fights, that we have no problem
whatsoever buying for and allowing our children to play??
Kids go on emotions and they don't fully understand death yet we give them access to this violence. How come no one is protesting this?

Why stop at TV and video games?
Why not magazines and books?
They used to execute people in public.

What about boxing and wrestling?

Depictions of violence have always existed and they've made the reasonable scapegoat that people with an agenda want to believe they are.

Halifax2TheMax · April 2018

LongestRoad said:

How come there were no school shootings when guns have been around in America with access to them and in the past
before violent television and especially video games with lots of guns and gun fights, that we have no problem
whatsoever buying for and allowing our children to play??
Kids go on emotions and they don't fully understand death yet we give them access to this violence. How come no one is protesting this?

Show me a news article from the 50's, 60's or 70's where a nine year old blew off her head with an Uzi at a gun range run by a cop with her "responsible" father teaching her how to shoot. What's changed? Parenting.

tbergs · April 2018

elvistheking44 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Thank the NRA.

Wrong.

It's not a simple wrong or a blame it all on the NRA, but they have played a huge part in where this country is at now with guns and gun control measures. They were a pretty decent organization until around the 70's and then things went to shit and they became a propaganda machine unwilling to come to the table for the good of all..

Founded in 1871, the group now has about 5 million members. More to the point, it is among the most feared and effective players in Washington and the 50 state capitals, where it lobbies, raises money and prepares field campaigns.

The power of the organization is legendary, especially the widely published report cards it issues giving A to F grades to lawmakers. The cards have been credited with the election (or blamed for the defeat) of many a candidate, including incumbents.

Even the nuances of the group's affection, an A+ over an A grade, for example, can make the difference for candidates, especially in Republican primaries.

That is why the NRA has anchored the opposition in every major gun-related debate since it altered its main aim from marksmanship to hard-edged political activism. That change came 40 years ago and was related to other shifts in political sentiment, including the departure of Southern rural conservatives from the Democratic Party. All these helped elect the first presidential candidate to ever be endorsed by the NRA, Ronald Reagan, in 1980.

The hard-liners took over the NRA after an NRA member was killed by federal agents.

In 1971, agents of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms killed an NRA member who was hiding a large number of illegal weapons. This, too, stirred a restive reaction within the NRA rank and file. To address it, the NRA's top managers created the group's first lobbying organ, the Institute for Legislative Action, in 1975.

The ILA was headed by a Texas lawyer named Harlon Carter, an immigration hawk who had headed of the Border Patrol in the 1950s.

"You don't stop crime by attacking guns," he said. "You stop crime by stopping criminals."

Hard-charging and uncompromising, Carter was soon at odds with the Old Guard of the parent NRA, who downsized his ILA staff. He fought back by organizing an uprising at the annual NRA convention in 1977 and forcing the power struggle to burst into the open.

In the end, Carter won, ascending to NRA's de facto leadership as its executive vice president. He installed another hard-liner, Neal Knox, to head the ILA. The new marching orders were to oppose all forms of gun control across the board and lobby aggressively for gun owners' rights in Congress and the legislatures.

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/10/556578593/the-nra-wasnt-always-against-gun-restrictions

HesCalledDyer · April 2018

elvistheking44 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Thank the NRA.

Wrong.

In large part, I am not.

mace1229 · April 2018

Halifax mentioned parenting. I would agree that has to be part of the problem. Parenting is completely different now than it was 50 years ago. In the 50s and 60s most families had one parent (the mom) always at home. There is no way I can be convinced it doesn't have an impact when most kids go home to an empty house compared to one with always one parent.
Other factors would include number of broken homes on the rise compared to several decades ago. Again, this causes a lot of conflict and stress on the children. Its commonly knowledge there is a direct correlation between broken homes and crime, it only makes since this carries over to gun violence too.
Internet plays a role with social media and bullying that is 24/7. Social media is linked to depression and anxiety and isolating kids.
Number of kids on antidepressants has increased, probably linked to all of the reasons above. The home is o where near where it was when my parents grew up.
One of the only things that is the same are guns. Guns were readily available then, and actually easier to get. They've only become more difficult to obtain, you can't go to the local hardware store and walk out with a gun anymore. Kids grew up with gunslingers as heroes. Instead of dancing puppets, kid shows were cowboys shooting bad guys. So I don't buy into this gun culture being new either. Its been around. The kids and homes have changed.
All that being said, I've said before I'm for gun control. I just don't think gun are the root of the problem.

Go Beavers · April 2018

If what you listed contributes to a rise in violence, then the violent crime rate and juvenile crime rate wouldn’t be going down like it has for over 20 years.

mace1229 · April 2018

I didn't say juvenile crime is on the rise. Just that some of the factors that contribute to crime are (and actually, some of them are on a slight decline, but no where near where they were 30 or 40 years ago). There are lots of other factors of course.
Every source about homes I've ever seen always state poverty and broken homes are more common with crimes.
These are the first 3 Google searches with broken homes, all state it as a contributing factor in crime. I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually deny a connection between the two before.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8109184/Children-from-broken-homes-nine-times-more-likely-to-commit-crimes.html

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201308/poverty-broken-homes-violence-the-making-gang-member

https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/report/the-real-root-causes-violent-crime-the-breakdown-marriage-family-and

mace1229 · April 2018

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-changing-culture/201510/are-mental-health-issues-the-rise

Rise of children with mental health issues and depression is also at a record high. Very easy to see a correlation between teen gun violence and the changes they face now.

Go Beavers · April 2018

mace1229 said:

I didn't say juvenile crime is on the rise. Just that some of the factors that contribute to crime are (and actually, some of them are on a slight decline, but no where near where they were 30 or 40 years ago). There are lots of other factors of course.
Every source about homes I've ever seen always state poverty and broken homes are more common with crimes.
These are the first 3 Google searches with broken homes, all state it as a contributing factor in crime. I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually deny a connection between the two before.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8109184/Children-from-broken-homes-nine-times-more-likely-to-commit-crimes.html

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201308/poverty-broken-homes-violence-the-making-gang-member

https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/report/the-real-root-causes-violent-crime-the-breakdown-marriage-family-and

There’s definitely a correllation, but I guess I’m wondering about What people’s next step in their thinking is. To me what’s important is how kids and parent’s are successful in a single parent home, because obviously this happens. The kid’s success can depend a lot on whether or not they’re in poverty, access to resources and opportunity, and having other quality relationships where they feel connected.

What irks me is that often a conservative looks at the single parent home statistic from a good ol days myth perspective and start coming down on feminist ideals and encourage outdated gender roles in some attempt to maintain the traditional nuclear family.

dankind · April 2018

stuckinline · April 2018

Bullying may add to this issue
http://www.pacer.org/bullying/resources/stats.asp

LongestRoad · April 2018

rgambs said:

LongestRoad said:

How come there were no school shootings when guns have been around in America with access to them and in the past
before violent television and especially video games with lots of guns and gun fights, that we have no problem
whatsoever buying for and allowing our children to play??
Kids go on emotions and they don't fully understand death yet we give them access to this violence. How come no one is protesting this?

Why stop at TV and video games?
Why not magazines and books?
They used to execute people in public.

What about boxing and wrestling?

Depictions of violence have always existed and they've made the reasonable scapegoat that people with an agenda want to believe they are.

Watching gun fights on television and playing video games where you're shooting people are much more intense. And who has an agenda? The people who want to take our guns so they can control us? Look at history to know what's happened to people who allowed their governments to take their guns. I don't believe people should want to own machine guns but we should start putting the blame on the violence that the children today are subjected to on a daily basis through the video games and violent shows.

oftenreading · April 2018

LongestRoad said:

rgambs said:

LongestRoad said:

How come there were no school shootings when guns have been around in America with access to them and in the past
before violent television and especially video games with lots of guns and gun fights, that we have no problem
whatsoever buying for and allowing our children to play??
Kids go on emotions and they don't fully understand death yet we give them access to this violence. How come no one is protesting this?

Why stop at TV and video games?
Why not magazines and books?
They used to execute people in public.

What about boxing and wrestling?

Depictions of violence have always existed and they've made the reasonable scapegoat that people with an agenda want to believe they are.

Watching gun fights on television and playing video games where you're shooting people are much more intense. And who has an agenda? The people who want to take our guns so they can control us? Look at history to know what's happened to people who allowed their governments to take their guns. I don't believe people should want to own machine guns but we should start putting the blame on the violence that the children today are subjected to on a daily basis through the video games and violent shows.

And yet again we have to point out that virtually all other western nations have those same shows and video games, with very different expressions of violence in the culture at large.

So we come back to what actually is different between the countries.

Hi! · April 2018

And I would turn on the TV

But it's so embarrassing
To see all the other people
I don't know what they mean
And it was magic at first
When they spoke without sound
But now this world is gonna hurt
You better turn that thing down
Turn it around

Well, it wasn't me, says the boy with the gun,
Sure, I pulled the trigger but it needed to be done,
Because life's been killing me ever since it begun
You can't blame me because I'm to young

You can't blame me, sure the killer was my son
But I didn't teach him to pull the trigger of the gun
It's the killin' on his TV screen,
You can't blame me it's those images he's seen

Well, you can't blame me, says the media man
I wasn't the one who came up with the plan
But I just point my camera at what the people wanna see,
Now it's a two-way mirror, and you can't blame me

You can't blame me, says the singer of the song
And the maker of the movie which he based his life on
It's only entertainment as anyone can see
It's smoke machines and makeup, man you can't fool me

It was you, it was me, it was every man,
We've all got the blood on our hands
We only receive what we demand,
If we want hell, then hell's what we'll have

And I would turn on the TV
But it's so embarrassing
To see all the other people
I don't know what they mean
And it was magic at first
But let everyone down
But now this world is gonna hurt
You better turn it around
Turn it around

Cookie Jar
Jack Johnson

HesCalledDyer · April 2018

LongestRoad said:

rgambs said:

LongestRoad said:

How come there were no school shootings when guns have been around in America with access to them and in the past
before violent television and especially video games with lots of guns and gun fights, that we have no problem
whatsoever buying for and allowing our children to play??
Kids go on emotions and they don't fully understand death yet we give them access to this violence. How come no one is protesting this?

Why stop at TV and video games?
Why not magazines and books?
They used to execute people in public.

What about boxing and wrestling?

Depictions of violence have always existed and they've made the reasonable scapegoat that people with an agenda want to believe they are.

Watching gun fights on television and playing video games where you're shooting people are much more intense. And who has an agenda? The people who want to take our guns so they can control us? Look at history to know what's happened to people who allowed their governments to take their guns. I don't believe people should want to own machine guns but we should start putting the blame on the violence that the children today are subjected to on a daily basis through the video games and violent shows.

The whole “look at history of governments who take the people’s guns away” argument is so weak and utterly stupid. There are only a handful of countries in the entire world that have permissive gun laws.

mace1229 · April 2018

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

I didn't say juvenile crime is on the rise. Just that some of the factors that contribute to crime are (and actually, some of them are on a slight decline, but no where near where they were 30 or 40 years ago). There are lots of other factors of course.
Every source about homes I've ever seen always state poverty and broken homes are more common with crimes.
These are the first 3 Google searches with broken homes, all state it as a contributing factor in crime. I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually deny a connection between the two before.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8109184/Children-from-broken-homes-nine-times-more-likely-to-commit-crimes.html

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201308/poverty-broken-homes-violence-the-making-gang-member

https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/report/the-real-root-causes-violent-crime-the-breakdown-marriage-family-and

There’s definitely a correllation, but I guess I’m wondering about What people’s next step in their thinking is. To me what’s important is how kids and parent’s are successful in a single parent home, because obviously this happens. The kid’s success can depend a lot on whether or not they’re in poverty, access to resources and opportunity, and having other quality relationships where they feel connected.

What irks me is that often a conservative looks at the single parent home statistic from a good ol days myth perspective and start coming down on feminist ideals and encourage outdated gender roles in some attempt to maintain the traditional nuclear family.

I don't think conservatives look down on feminist ideas. Half of the group you're referring to are women. I think many do look down on bad decisions. They look down on the dead-beat dads and the 20-something single mom with 6 kids and no way to support them. But I would disagree that they look down the feminist ideas.It is very difficult financially to have a stay-at-home-mom these days, and most conservative households have working moms.

mickeyrat · April 2018

LongestRoad said:

rgambs said:

LongestRoad said:

How come there were no school shootings when guns have been around in America with access to them and in the past
before violent television and especially video games with lots of guns and gun fights, that we have no problem
whatsoever buying for and allowing our children to play??
Kids go on emotions and they don't fully understand death yet we give them access to this violence. How come no one is protesting this?

Why stop at TV and video games?
Why not magazines and books?
They used to execute people in public.

What about boxing and wrestling?

Depictions of violence have always existed and they've made the reasonable scapegoat that people with an agenda want to believe they are.

Watching gun fights on television and playing video games where you're shooting people are much more intense. And who has an agenda? The people who want to take our guns so they can control us? Look at history to know what's happened to people who allowed their governments to take their guns. I don't believe people should want to own machine guns but we should start putting the blame on the violence that the children today are subjected to on a daily basis through the video games and violent shows.

those kinds of games, movies and shows are available in other countries that dont seem to have this problem.......... how do you explain that?

I have a question about guns

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