Police abuse
Comments
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Yes, that is what I am saying, maybe a taser. As I have been informed by the 2A crowd, police are only there to clean up the mess after the damage has been already done. Otherwise, police have proven themselves trigger happy at the drop of a hat. The police have been militarized and we are the enemy.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Are you seriously suggesting your police force should be armed with a billy club and some pepper spray? Don't you think that places them at a disadvantage? .
won't get any arguments from me there.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:... the country initiated and supported sweeping gun reform to safeguard their country a few decades back and now they are reaping the benefits for doing so (you guys still need to evolve to such a state of mind).
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Good luck getting cops working gang infested LA with a billy club0
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I just read a couple articles about the Shaver shooting. I found it interesting because it cleared up some facts that had been wrong.
The shooter was not the one giving commands. Which is important because I've seen several comments here claiming that the shooter was intentionally baiting him into making a mistake. That can't be true if he wasn't making the commands. Other articles I have read also indicate the shooter was the one giving the commands. So if that is false, that is a big fact that many sources got wrong and has played a factor in the public opinion of this case. This CNN article makes a point to say that is not the case, that the shooter and the one giving commands are two different people. He was an inexperienced cop put in a situation where others were making bad commands.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/11/opinions/daniel-shaver-shooting-opinion-gagliano/index.html
I'm not saying the shooting was justified, or even the verdict was correct. Just saying it isn't as clear-cut of a bait 'em and shoot 'em scenario as many have made it out to be.0 -
But what was clear was the fact that he was lying on his stomach, unarmed, arms outstretched.mace1229 said:I just read a couple articles about the Shaver shooting. I found it interesting because it cleared up some facts that had been wrong.
The shooter was not the one giving commands. Which is important because I've seen several comments here claiming that the shooter was intentionally baiting him into making a mistake. That can't be true if he wasn't making the commands. Other articles I have read also indicate the shooter was the one giving the commands. So if that is false, that is a big fact that many sources got wrong and has played a factor in the public opinion of this case. This CNN article makes a point to say that is not the case, that the shooter and the one giving commands are two different people. He was an inexperienced cop put in a situation where others were making bad commands.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/11/opinions/daniel-shaver-shooting-opinion-gagliano/index.html
I'm not saying the shooting was justified, or even the verdict was correct. Just saying it isn't as clear-cut of a bait 'em and shoot 'em scenario as many have made it out to be.
Very easily, they could have walked to him and cuffed him. I'm not sure why they were shitting their pants?
"My brain's a good brain!"0 -
If you don't think a lot of people make excuses for the cops because "the guy was a thug" then I don't know what to tell you. Seeing a white guy killed by a cop might resonate with people. I'll tell you this, it resonated with me.mace1229 said:
I think it is insulting to think that those who support cops did so because the victims were black, and that that will change with Shaver being white.OnWis97 said:I was not familiar with the Shaver case.
Should be interesting...a cop acquitted of killing a white guy. And seemingly generating an excuse by playing a game of Simon Says and shooting when an mistake was made. It's pretty blatant...only the most diehard Blue Backers are using the ol' "he didn't follow instructions" excuse.
I hope the video becomes the most viral thing ever...a lot of cop excuse-makers, given that the victims are usually black, may have to re-think whether this could happen to them. This could happen to ANYONE.
That doesn't mean that every questionable/unjustified killing is racially motivated. And it doesn't mean everyone who "backs the blue" (and I mean that in reference to those I view as never, under any circumstances, questioning the shootings) does so because they perceive the victims as only black. Anecdotally though, there was a different tone to the aftermath of this acquittal than I usually see. Less interest in his background, less looking to blame the victim...some "he did not follow instructions" but not as much. There's a ton of nuance here; maybe a cop doesn't say "I'm gonna shoot this guy because of his race" but maybe his (and our entire culture's) biases play into why a black guy might not be following instructions vs. why a white guy might not. Nuance is not a strength in our social media culture...when it comes to publicized police killings of black men in this country, I'd wager that 90% of us either think they were all justified or they were murders. The reality is a lot grayer than that. (and nuance was not necessarily a strength of my post, either).
Believe it or not, I generally think most cops want to do a good job and serve the community; ALL of the community. And it's a difficult job; one I fully admit I could probably not do.
I stand by it, though...if white victims were making more news for the same reason, I think the tone of always believing the cop would be a bit less. So blame the media for jumping on the race issue if you want...if more white victims were publicized then maybe more people would buy into the notion about problems with training, etc.Post edited by OnWis97 on1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
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I don't disagree that the tactic was poor. The tactics have been criticized by other police as being poor.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
But what was clear was the fact that he was lying on his stomach, unarmed, arms outstretched.mace1229 said:I just read a couple articles about the Shaver shooting. I found it interesting because it cleared up some facts that had been wrong.
The shooter was not the one giving commands. Which is important because I've seen several comments here claiming that the shooter was intentionally baiting him into making a mistake. That can't be true if he wasn't making the commands. Other articles I have read also indicate the shooter was the one giving the commands. So if that is false, that is a big fact that many sources got wrong and has played a factor in the public opinion of this case. This CNN article makes a point to say that is not the case, that the shooter and the one giving commands are two different people. He was an inexperienced cop put in a situation where others were making bad commands.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/11/opinions/daniel-shaver-shooting-opinion-gagliano/index.html
I'm not saying the shooting was justified, or even the verdict was correct. Just saying it isn't as clear-cut of a bait 'em and shoot 'em scenario as many have made it out to be.
Very easily, they could have walked to him and cuffed him. I'm not sure why they were shitting their pants?
I just thought it was worth pointing out the shooter was not the one giving the instructions. Since it was said multiple times he was baiting him to make a mistake so he could shoot him, I thought it was worth mentioning.0 -
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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I don't remember exactly what was said, but I don't think anyone thought he was literally baiting this man so he could shoot him.mace1229 said:
I don't disagree that the tactic was poor. The tactics have been criticized by other police as being poor.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
But what was clear was the fact that he was lying on his stomach, unarmed, arms outstretched.mace1229 said:I just read a couple articles about the Shaver shooting. I found it interesting because it cleared up some facts that had been wrong.
The shooter was not the one giving commands. Which is important because I've seen several comments here claiming that the shooter was intentionally baiting him into making a mistake. That can't be true if he wasn't making the commands. Other articles I have read also indicate the shooter was the one giving the commands. So if that is false, that is a big fact that many sources got wrong and has played a factor in the public opinion of this case. This CNN article makes a point to say that is not the case, that the shooter and the one giving commands are two different people. He was an inexperienced cop put in a situation where others were making bad commands.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/11/opinions/daniel-shaver-shooting-opinion-gagliano/index.html
I'm not saying the shooting was justified, or even the verdict was correct. Just saying it isn't as clear-cut of a bait 'em and shoot 'em scenario as many have made it out to be.
Very easily, they could have walked to him and cuffed him. I'm not sure why they were shitting their pants?
I just thought it was worth pointing out the shooter was not the one giving the instructions. Since it was said multiple times he was baiting him to make a mistake so he could shoot him, I thought it was worth mentioning.
I think (on my part for sure) it's more that there is a culture in place that puts unreasonable expectations on suspects and gives them less opportunity to comply than they should have, and that was coupled in this case with an officer who is part of a culture of policing that is hypermasculine and indulges in sick fantasies about taking out bad guys.
Any scroll through a discussion on police issues will inevitably yield comments from police wishing suspects had run so they could be roughed up with a wide range of similar sentiments being expressed. It's beyond debate that sick, fucked up men are drawn to the authority of police work, and as a society we need to do a better job of weeding these "tough guys" out.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
No, it doesn't surprise me. Let's be honest... the running MT narrative is that the nation's police force had gone rogue and is executing black people during encounters that go slightly awry.Halifax2TheMax said:
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.
It's still slightly disproportionate (76% of the population accounting for roughly 55% of the killings) don't exactly support the aforementioned belief set.
That graph only tells a portion of the story. For example, link in all the other variables such as socioeconomics and how that relates to race... and how that lends itself to criminal activities.
Don't get me wrong... I believe there is an element of racial bias within policie departments. I just don't think it's on the scale many would like me to believe.
"My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Do you think this would have happened had the perps been white?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No, it doesn't surprise me. Let's be honest... the running MT narrative is that the nation's police force had gone rogue and is executing black people during encounters that go slightly awry.Halifax2TheMax said:
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.
It's still slightly disproportionate (76% of the population accounting for roughly 55% of the killings) don't exactly support the aforementioned belief set.
That graph only tells a portion of the story. For example, link in all the other variables such as socioeconomics and how that relates to race... and how that lends itself to criminal activities.
Don't get me wrong... I believe there is an element of racial bias within policie departments. I just don't think it's on the scale many would like me to believe.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/31/cleveland-car-chase-russell-williams-police-shooting
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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I would argue that there is inherent bias throughout the criminal justice system, from policing, to arresting and charging, to jury selection and sentencing (rock versus powder cocaine). Check the YouTube video of the white guy walking down the street with a rifle slung over his shoulder and the cop's interaction when he rolls up versus the cop who rolls up on the black guy doing the same. Not a definitive study by any means but there are enough real life examples of how police respond to black perps versus white and statistics to bear out the inherent bias in the other aspects of the criminal justice system. I don't remember too many AMT posters posting the story from Cleveland and lamenting the brutality of the police. Your race makes a difference as to how your viewed and treated, by the police and posters on AMT.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No, it doesn't surprise me. Let's be honest... the running MT narrative is that the nation's police force had gone rogue and is executing black people during encounters that go slightly awry.Halifax2TheMax said:
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.
It's still slightly disproportionate (76% of the population accounting for roughly 55% of the killings) don't exactly support the aforementioned belief set.
That graph only tells a portion of the story. For example, link in all the other variables such as socioeconomics and how that relates to race... and how that lends itself to criminal activities.
Don't get me wrong... I believe there is an element of racial bias within policie departments. I just don't think it's on the scale many would like me to believe.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Probably. According to that article they tried to ram police. And the chase started because they thought they heard shots coming from the car, so they assumed they were armed. The fact that they not only fled when they tried to investigate, but also tried to kill police in the process only made them further believe they were armed and dangerous.Halifax2TheMax said:
Do you think this would have happened had the perps been white?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No, it doesn't surprise me. Let's be honest... the running MT narrative is that the nation's police force had gone rogue and is executing black people during encounters that go slightly awry.Halifax2TheMax said:
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.
It's still slightly disproportionate (76% of the population accounting for roughly 55% of the killings) don't exactly support the aforementioned belief set.
That graph only tells a portion of the story. For example, link in all the other variables such as socioeconomics and how that relates to race... and how that lends itself to criminal activities.
Don't get me wrong... I believe there is an element of racial bias within policie departments. I just don't think it's on the scale many would like me to believe.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/31/cleveland-car-chase-russell-williams-police-shooting
What was it about color that made them shoot in this case? A white dude tries to kill police he's likely to get shot too. Not to mention fleeing at speeds of 110 mph.
Not every case of a black person who gets killed while trying to kill police is the result of racists cops.Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
Is this your idea of 'restraint?" I highly doubt, had the perps been white, that 137 shots would have been fired, some from a cop standing on the hod of their car.mace1229 said:
Probably. According to that article they tried to ram police. And the chase started because they thought they heard shots coming from the car, so they assumed they were armed. The fact that they not only fled when they tried to investigate, but also tried to kill police in the process only made them further believe they were armed and dangerous.Halifax2TheMax said:
Do you think this would have happened had the perps been white?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No, it doesn't surprise me. Let's be honest... the running MT narrative is that the nation's police force had gone rogue and is executing black people during encounters that go slightly awry.Halifax2TheMax said:
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.
It's still slightly disproportionate (76% of the population accounting for roughly 55% of the killings) don't exactly support the aforementioned belief set.
That graph only tells a portion of the story. For example, link in all the other variables such as socioeconomics and how that relates to race... and how that lends itself to criminal activities.
Don't get me wrong... I believe there is an element of racial bias within policie departments. I just don't think it's on the scale many would like me to believe.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/31/cleveland-car-chase-russell-williams-police-shooting
What was it about color that made them shoot in this case? A white dude tries to kill police he's likely to get shot too.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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"Tried to ram" is a trigger phrase used to justify force, it's often shown to be bullshit.mace1229 said:
Probably. According to that article they tried to ram police. And the chase started because they thought they heard shots coming from the car, so they assumed they were armed. The fact that they not only fled when they tried to investigate, but also tried to kill police in the process only made them further believe they were armed and dangerous.Halifax2TheMax said:
Do you think this would have happened had the perps been white?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No, it doesn't surprise me. Let's be honest... the running MT narrative is that the nation's police force had gone rogue and is executing black people during encounters that go slightly awry.Halifax2TheMax said:
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.
It's still slightly disproportionate (76% of the population accounting for roughly 55% of the killings) don't exactly support the aforementioned belief set.
That graph only tells a portion of the story. For example, link in all the other variables such as socioeconomics and how that relates to race... and how that lends itself to criminal activities.
Don't get me wrong... I believe there is an element of racial bias within policie departments. I just don't think it's on the scale many would like me to believe.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/31/cleveland-car-chase-russell-williams-police-shooting
What was it about color that made them shoot in this case? A white dude tries to kill police he's likely to get shot too. Not to mention fleeing at speeds of 110 mph.
Not every case of a black person who gets killed while trying to kill police is the result of racists cops.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Well when you flea at 110 mph, you lose all benefit of the doubt in my mind.rgambs said:
"Tried to ram" is a trigger phrase used to justify force, it's often shown to be bullshit.mace1229 said:
Probably. According to that article they tried to ram police. And the chase started because they thought they heard shots coming from the car, so they assumed they were armed. The fact that they not only fled when they tried to investigate, but also tried to kill police in the process only made them further believe they were armed and dangerous.Halifax2TheMax said:
Do you think this would have happened had the perps been white?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No, it doesn't surprise me. Let's be honest... the running MT narrative is that the nation's police force had gone rogue and is executing black people during encounters that go slightly awry.Halifax2TheMax said:
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.
It's still slightly disproportionate (76% of the population accounting for roughly 55% of the killings) don't exactly support the aforementioned belief set.
That graph only tells a portion of the story. For example, link in all the other variables such as socioeconomics and how that relates to race... and how that lends itself to criminal activities.
Don't get me wrong... I believe there is an element of racial bias within policie departments. I just don't think it's on the scale many would like me to believe.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/31/cleveland-car-chase-russell-williams-police-shooting
What was it about color that made them shoot in this case? A white dude tries to kill police he's likely to get shot too. Not to mention fleeing at speeds of 110 mph.
Not every case of a black person who gets killed while trying to kill police is the result of racists cops.0 -
Halifax2TheMax said:
Is this your idea of 'restraint?" I highly doubt, had the perps been white, that 137 shots would have been fired, some from a cop standing on the hod of their car.mace1229 said:
Probably. According to that article they tried to ram police. And the chase started because they thought they heard shots coming from the car, so they assumed they were armed. The fact that they not only fled when they tried to investigate, but also tried to kill police in the process only made them further believe they were armed and dangerous.Halifax2TheMax said:
Do you think this would have happened had the perps been white?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No, it doesn't surprise me. Let's be honest... the running MT narrative is that the nation's police force had gone rogue and is executing black people during encounters that go slightly awry.Halifax2TheMax said:
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.
It's still slightly disproportionate (76% of the population accounting for roughly 55% of the killings) don't exactly support the aforementioned belief set.
That graph only tells a portion of the story. For example, link in all the other variables such as socioeconomics and how that relates to race... and how that lends itself to criminal activities.
Don't get me wrong... I believe there is an element of racial bias within policie departments. I just don't think it's on the scale many would like me to believe.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/31/cleveland-car-chase-russell-williams-police-shooting
What was it about color that made them shoot in this case? A white dude tries to kill police he's likely to get shot too.Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
I'm not sure about 'posters on AMT' (outside of a very small few).Halifax2TheMax said:
I would argue that there is inherent bias throughout the criminal justice system, from policing, to arresting and charging, to jury selection and sentencing (rock versus powder cocaine). Check the YouTube video of the white guy walking down the street with a rifle slung over his shoulder and the cop's interaction when he rolls up versus the cop who rolls up on the black guy doing the same. Not a definitive study by any means but there are enough real life examples of how police respond to black perps versus white and statistics to bear out the inherent bias in the other aspects of the criminal justice system. I don't remember too many AMT posters posting the story from Cleveland and lamenting the brutality of the police. Your race makes a difference as to how your viewed and treated, by the police and posters on AMT.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No, it doesn't surprise me. Let's be honest... the running MT narrative is that the nation's police force had gone rogue and is executing black people during encounters that go slightly awry.Halifax2TheMax said:
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.
It's still slightly disproportionate (76% of the population accounting for roughly 55% of the killings) don't exactly support the aforementioned belief set.
That graph only tells a portion of the story. For example, link in all the other variables such as socioeconomics and how that relates to race... and how that lends itself to criminal activities.
Don't get me wrong... I believe there is an element of racial bias within policie departments. I just don't think it's on the scale many would like me to believe.
I'd ask the question for you regarding the 'racist cop variety': are these cops inherently racist... or do they become racist as a result of doing their job?
"My brain's a good brain!"0 -
And I'm sure you wouldn't flee when you did nothing wrong and you were being shot at.mace1229 said:
Well when you flea at 110 mph, you lose all benefit of the doubt in my mind.rgambs said:
"Tried to ram" is a trigger phrase used to justify force, it's often shown to be bullshit.mace1229 said:
Probably. According to that article they tried to ram police. And the chase started because they thought they heard shots coming from the car, so they assumed they were armed. The fact that they not only fled when they tried to investigate, but also tried to kill police in the process only made them further believe they were armed and dangerous.Halifax2TheMax said:
Do you think this would have happened had the perps been white?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No, it doesn't surprise me. Let's be honest... the running MT narrative is that the nation's police force had gone rogue and is executing black people during encounters that go slightly awry.Halifax2TheMax said:
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.
It's still slightly disproportionate (76% of the population accounting for roughly 55% of the killings) don't exactly support the aforementioned belief set.
That graph only tells a portion of the story. For example, link in all the other variables such as socioeconomics and how that relates to race... and how that lends itself to criminal activities.
Don't get me wrong... I believe there is an element of racial bias within policie departments. I just don't think it's on the scale many would like me to believe.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/31/cleveland-car-chase-russell-williams-police-shooting
What was it about color that made them shoot in this case? A white dude tries to kill police he's likely to get shot too. Not to mention fleeing at speeds of 110 mph.
Not every case of a black person who gets killed while trying to kill police is the result of racists cops.
I'm sure you would sit tight and save that benefit of doubt for the cops trying to kill you for no reason.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Not all 137 shots were fired from the hood, some were.mace1229 said:Halifax2TheMax said:
Is this your idea of 'restraint?" I highly doubt, had the perps been white, that 137 shots would have been fired, some from a cop standing on the hod of their car.mace1229 said:
Probably. According to that article they tried to ram police. And the chase started because they thought they heard shots coming from the car, so they assumed they were armed. The fact that they not only fled when they tried to investigate, but also tried to kill police in the process only made them further believe they were armed and dangerous.Halifax2TheMax said:
Do you think this would have happened had the perps been white?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No, it doesn't surprise me. Let's be honest... the running MT narrative is that the nation's police force had gone rogue and is executing black people during encounters that go slightly awry.Halifax2TheMax said:
Why the “pardon?” Does that surprise you given that whites make up 76% of the population?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Halifax2TheMax said:
If I'm reading this graph correctly... of 926 shootings so far this year:
440 victims were white... I says 'pardon'?
543 victims had a gun (149 had a knife)... potentially threats to the responding officers.
It's still slightly disproportionate (76% of the population accounting for roughly 55% of the killings) don't exactly support the aforementioned belief set.
That graph only tells a portion of the story. For example, link in all the other variables such as socioeconomics and how that relates to race... and how that lends itself to criminal activities.
Don't get me wrong... I believe there is an element of racial bias within policie departments. I just don't think it's on the scale many would like me to believe.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/31/cleveland-car-chase-russell-williams-police-shooting
What was it about color that made them shoot in this case? A white dude tries to kill police he's likely to get shot too.
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