Donald Trump

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's the political system that has failed, not the education system. 

as repugnant as the man is, I can sort of see why so many people voted for him. just like patriotism, these folks are indoctrinated from a very young age as to which party is evil and which is good. they can rationalize that, as much of a fucking creep as he is, they see it as he's just a small fry towards the greater good, which is the republican machine of keeping taxes down (but not really), jobs local (but not really), guns in my hands, and men and women married and having babies. 

republicans aren't dumber than you. they just have different values. and just like you wanted to vote for hillary, as corrupt and money and war hungry as the right thinks she is, and as some of the left believes she is, were wiling to vote her in. they didn't want to risk their military lives for her supposed war mongering ways. not to mention you'll never in our lifetime hear a republican wanting to slash the military at the same time as sending them off to war. that just doesn't happen. 

I think, as much as even I have been a party to the trump-bashing, it would be infinitely more productive to find ways to constructively criticize him and his admin in a way that may actually sway some voters into thinking a bit differently in 3 years. instead of just the "fuck you are all idiots" mantra. that won't work. if anything, it will make things worse and make his base dig their heels in even deeper. 

That is a lost cause. If his base hasn't abandoned him by now, they never will. You would be wasting your breath trying to turn those cult members.

Better to focus efforts on those Americans who didn't vote last election, more than enough to beat him.

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's the political system that has failed, not the education system. 

as repugnant as the man is, I can sort of see why so many people voted for him. just like patriotism, these folks are indoctrinated from a very young age as to which party is evil and which is good. they can rationalize that, as much of a fucking creep as he is, they see it as he's just a small fry towards the greater good, which is the republican machine of keeping taxes down (but not really), jobs local (but not really), guns in my hands, and men and women married and having babies. 

republicans aren't dumber than you. they just have different values. and just like you wanted to vote for hillary, as corrupt and money and war hungry as the right thinks she is, and as some of the left believes she is, were wiling to vote her in. they didn't want to risk their military lives for her supposed war mongering ways. not to mention you'll never in our lifetime hear a republican wanting to slash the military at the same time as sending them off to war. that just doesn't happen. 

I think, as much as even I have been a party to the trump-bashing, it would be infinitely more productive to find ways to constructively criticize him and his admin in a way that may actually sway some voters into thinking a bit differently in 3 years. instead of just the "fuck you are all idiots" mantra. that won't work. if anything, it will make things worse and make his base dig their heels in even deeper. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's the political system that has failed, not the education system. 

as repugnant as the man is, I can sort of see why so many people voted for him. just like patriotism, these folks are indoctrinated from a very young age as to which party is evil and which is good. they can rationalize that, as much of a fucking creep as he is, they see it as he's just a small fry towards the greater good, which is the republican machine of keeping taxes down (but not really), jobs local (but not really), guns in my hands, and men and women married and having babies. 

republicans aren't dumber than you. they just have different values. and just like you wanted to vote for hillary, as corrupt and money and war hungry as the right thinks she is, and as some of the left believes she is, were wiling to vote her in. they didn't want to risk their military lives for her supposed war mongering ways. not to mention you'll never in our lifetime hear a republican wanting to slash the military at the same time as sending them off to war. that just doesn't happen. 

I think, as much as even I have been a party to the trump-bashing, it would be infinitely more productive to find ways to constructively criticize him and his admin in a way that may actually sway some voters into thinking a bit differently in 3 years. instead of just the "fuck you are all idiots" mantra. that won't work. if anything, it will make things worse and make his base dig their heels in even deeper. 

Re your comment about dumb.... Well, that is a touchy subject obviously, but I'm going to "go there", lol ... Many would argue that Republicans (Trump supporters, I should say) are, as a group, dumber, and that some of their shared values may very well be a reflection of that. So might their blind loyalty. In a lot of cases they are being harmed (directly, in many cases) by what they claim to support, which, some might argue, is a sign of being dumb. And if you're going to guess at who has the higher collective IQ - Trump supporters or Bernie supporters - can you honestly say that you don't know which guess would be the correct one? As for swaying them by not calling them what they are - idiots.... Hahaha, that's not going to work, so why bother? Seriously. They can't dig their heels in any deeper. Logical, rational thinking and communication is not going to touch them man. The ONLY thing that will change their minds is them being directly, personally harmed by something that they can't deny was Trump's fault. But they are so entrenched at this point, I'm not sure ANYTHING would convince them something was Trump's fault anyway.
... Am I saying these people are beyond hope? Yes. I think I am. Here's hoping for better in the younger generations. I think there is room for hope there.

but the same could be said about democrats, hillary supporters. people who perport to be peace loving, anti-war, when many people believe that's the exact opposite of what she would have given them. same thing with how everyone thinks trump is less corrupt than hillary. i mean, really? he is obviously more outwardly corrupt, or fits the mold i should say, but there's no way that hillary's is squeeky clean. so, i think it goes both ways. it's all too easy to criticize trump supporters as stupid and whatnot, based on everything he has promised vs everything he has done so far, everything he has said in the media, but he has struck a chord for a reason. one example, i have sighted before, is my uncle. catholic conservative, vert intelligent and successful lawyer, but also a guy who shoots from the hip, and appreciates a guy who doesn't bullshit. he's canadian, so of course it means nothing, but i don't think it's fair to paint all trump supporters as how many of us and others have portrayed them. because, honestly, i think in some way the reason we have done that is because we simply can't explain why they'd vote for him, so they "must be stupider" than we are. we put ourselves in this intellectual tower and laugh, even though he/they are the ones in power. as i have stated several times, there's no fucking way that 63 million people who voted for him are all stupid. not even close. 

democrats put themselves on this pedestal of being the intellectuals, the inner city business people, the lawyers, etc, and paint republican voters as these back road hicks with no teeth. it's simply not accurate. they always have. look at bush. look at obama. look at bill clinton. and yes, look at trump. look at how we all look at each of these guys and their voters based on their party. 

people who keep harping on trump for his sexual predatory nature, victim shaming, etc, have a very valid point about hillary and how hypocritical it is to dismiss her victim blaming/shaming when it comes to bill. no, this isn't about bill, and no, i'm not comparing her victim shaming to trump's sexual misconduct, but she's far from innocent. this is about how she defended bill, and all the many many women who came forward, and still have to this day, and she calls them names. when republicans do that, it's repulsive. when hillary does it, she's being a strong woman. 

you are right, as i already mentioned, yes, you most likely won't get anywhere with trump's base. but you will get somewhere with people like me, who don't vote down party lines, who vote based on the issues of the day, the swing votes, and especially, as dignin said, the non-voters. 

so i suppose make fun of all the trump supporters as morons as much as you wish. but while it definitely won't help the cause, it certainly still could hurt it. when people feel bullied, and when others see people being bullied, it tends to galvanize the group and even recruit more sympathy, no matter what they have done to 'deserve' the bullying in the first place. 

Cliffy6745 said:

ohhhhhhh, boy

https://twitter.com/vicenews/status/935235963852292096

MayDay10 said:

yeah.  to be honest, most of the people i know who voted for trump arent intelligent and not well educated.  they have blatanty voted against their own interests.  they sat there and stewed on unwarranted hatred for obama for 8 years.  for example, my mom hates "obamacare".  she was getting fucked by her work provided plan and at one point i suggested she look into the ACA plans.  she asked what that is and i said its known as obamacare.  her reply is "i dont like handouts... i cant wait until that thing goes away".  meanwhile, it saved my sister's life twice.  literally.   

another type i know are the ones who vote on 1 issue and that is abortion.  to me, that is ignorance.  especially while their candidate pisses on the poor, different races, nationalities, mocks disability, and is also enabling industry to kill off more of gods creatures including humans.

i have some friends also, who listen to "conservative" talk radio all day.  they are constantly fed a false reality in an echo chamber.  republican is like a religion to them.  its another form of ignorance. really, i have never been able to grasp "conservative" talk radio anyways.  how can people desire to listen to that all day?  is there any mainstream "liberal" equivalent?  who has time to sit there and stew day in and day out?  then cry that obama and the "liberals" cause all their real, imaginary, and hypothetical problems.  its nonsense.  science and facts are openly ignored and thrown in a trash bin.

the last kind i know are wealthy people i work with including the owners.  staunch republicans who vote in their best financial interests.  that makes sense, although they do a lot of mental gymnastics to justify trump... and were anti trump throughout the primary. 

hillary isnt perfect.  certainly isnt a warhawk.  that was invented.  at least she has the experience and also would have to pretend to help the middle class.  obama did a good job and i think it would largely be a continuation.  i dont love the entire platform.  she represents my interests well. 

meanwhile, if you are upper middle class on down, trump is fucking you in plain sight.  whether its the joke of a tax plan, allowing industry to poison you, net neutrality allowing monopolies to extract money from you, deregulating banks, wall street, and industry... for fucks sake, he is in the process of sabotaging a consumer financial protections watchdog and people are cheering for it... the same people who think obama is the devil (and a kenyan muslim).  many were also convinced obama was going to summon all his power, declare martial law, and become dictator