Police abuse

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  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    edited September 2017
    https://youtu.be/rSlUkT_OIcc

    Here's a bit more to this story and arrest watch the whole video it gives great incite. To me it looks like she's pregnant.

    Peace
    Post edited by g under p on
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,831
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,410
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    edited September 2017
    tbergs said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    I don't believe there would have been any outcry if the unconscious man'a blood wasn't tested for alcohol, since (a) it wasn't legal, and (b) he isn't accused any legal wrongdoing. 
     
    Post edited by oftenreading on
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,410
    oftenreading said:
    tbergs said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    I don't believe there would have been any outcry if the unconscious man'a blood wasn't tested for alcohol, since (a) it wasn't legal, and (b) he isn't accused any legal wrongdoing. 
     
    You are putting a lot of faith in the media not spinning this.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,561
    tbergs said:
    oftenreading said:
    tbergs said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    I don't believe there would have been any outcry if the unconscious man'a blood wasn't tested for alcohol, since (a) it wasn't legal, and (b) he isn't accused any legal wrongdoing. 
     
    You are putting a lot of faith in the media not spinning this.
    I wouldn't see this making a peep. There's limits on how evidence can be gathered that the majority of the country is used to. 
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,831
    tbergs said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    I thought the same thing. Its pretty tough to know what was in their head, unless they admit it then its all speculation. When a fatality is involved I'm sure that changes everything as well.
    And I did a quick Google search, first 2 results say Utah does in fact have an implied consent law. If they have reason to suspect of believe drugs and/or alcohol are involved. There's probably similar laws with regards to a fatality accident as well.
    That being said, even if the nurse was wrong I don't think they handled it properly. Give her a citation (one equal to the citation that someone would get if they refused to take the DUI test), create a formal complaint with the nursing board or something, but no need to drag her off in cuffs.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,681
    oftenreading said:
    Incredibly awful story of law enforcement repeatedly tasering an 18 year old suspect who was already fully restrained. No other reason for it than vindictiveness, pure and simple. The facebook post by the local sheriff about the arrest is also disgusting.

    http://www.salon.com/2017/08/06/deputies-tasered-teenager-strapped-to-chair-for-nearly-a-minute_partner/

    Yup, that's torture, plain and simple. Those cops should go to prison.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    I thought the same thing. Its pretty tough to know what was in their head, unless they admit it then its all speculation. When a fatality is involved I'm sure that changes everything as well.
    And I did a quick Google search, first 2 results say Utah does in fact have an implied consent law. If they have reason to suspect of believe drugs and/or alcohol are involved. There's probably similar laws with regards to a fatality accident as well.
    That being said, even if the nurse was wrong I don't think they handled it properly. Give her a citation (one equal to the citation that someone would get if they refused to take the DUI test), create a formal complaint with the nursing board or something, but no need to drag her off in cuffs.
    That was a specific part of the argument, the officer didn't demonstrate probable cause because the victim was hit by a suspect fleeing.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    must see tv!


  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    That dude has balls!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    JC29856 said:
    must see tv!


    That would not have been my style to handle that situation but I can certainly understand the man's disgust. The officer must have already checked out (license & registration) that man speaking because the officer sure is calm during that outburst of frustration. Btw that man is absolutely right to voice his outrage.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    The dude was right though.

    The cop took his scolding well.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    g under p said:
    JC29856 said:
    must see tv!


    That would not have been my style to handle that situation but I can certainly understand the man's disgust. The officer must have already checked out (license & registration) that man speaking because the officer sure is calm during that outburst of frustration. Btw that man is absolutely right to voice his outrage.

    Peace

    I'm guessing the cop is calm because he knows he's being filmed.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    oftenreading said:
    g under p said:
    JC29856 said:
    must see tv!


    That would not have been my style to handle that situation but I can certainly understand the man's disgust. The officer must have already checked out (license & registration) that man speaking because the officer sure is calm during that outburst of frustration. Btw that man is absolutely right to voice his outrage.

    Peace

    I'm guessing the cop is calm because he knows he's being filmed.
    Thank the flying spaghetti monster for smart phones.
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    dignin said:
    oftenreading said:
    g under p said:
    JC29856 said:
    must see tv!


    That would not have been my style to handle that situation but I can certainly understand the man's disgust. The officer must have already checked out (license & registration) that man speaking because the officer sure is calm during that outburst of frustration. Btw that man is absolutely right to voice his outrage.

    Peace

    I'm guessing the cop is calm because he knows he's being filmed.
    Thank the flying spaghetti monster for smart phones.
    Thanks be to FSM, and pass the Parmesan. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    The dude was right though.

    The cop took his scolding well.
    He did take it well, it went on and on beyond what was necessary.
    At least come up with new words if you are going to go on and on, don't just repeat like a fool.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    rgambs said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    The dude was right though.

    The cop took his scolding well.
    He did take it well, it went on and on beyond what was necessary.
    At least come up with new words if you are going to go on and on, don't just repeat like a fool.
    Agreed.

    He made his point at least a minute before he bothered to stop. The blathering tended to make him look somewhat (as you said) foolish and he lost some of his luster.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    oftenreading said:
    dignin said:
    oftenreading said:
    g under p said:
    JC29856 said:
    must see tv!


    That would not have been my style to handle that situation but I can certainly understand the man's disgust. The officer must have already checked out (license & registration) that man speaking because the officer sure is calm during that outburst of frustration. Btw that man is absolutely right to voice his outrage.

    Peace

    I'm guessing the cop is calm because he knows he's being filmed.
    Thank the flying spaghetti monster for smart phones.
    Thanks be to FSM, and pass the Parmesan. 
    rAmen
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