Police abuse

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  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,926
    There has been so much discussion (both in the media and this forum) about the peaceful BLM movement being infiltrated by bad actors.  However, when a BLM organizer openly states that "I don't care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy's or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats," it discredits that entire argument.  There are BLM organizers openly condoning looting.  How can that be defended?  My brother lives downtown and has to show proof of residency to get past certain "check points" just to get to his damn apartment.  This has spiraled out of control with no clear, constructive purpose anymore.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,712
    edited August 2020
    bbiggs said:
    There has been so much discussion (both in the media and this forum) about the peaceful BLM movement being infiltrated by bad actors.  However, when a BLM organizer openly states that "I don't care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy's or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats," it discredits that entire argument.  There are BLM organizers openly condoning looting.  How can that be defended?  My brother lives downtown and has to show proof of residency to get past certain "check points" just to get to his damn apartment.  This has spiraled out of control with no clear, constructive purpose anymore.
    Which city? There was talk of that sort of thing in CHOP/CHAZ back when that was thing. Is your brother in Seattle?
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  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,411
    There is a line that shouldn’t be crossed. It’s the law, give or take a little one way or the other.

    When peaceful protest is ignored or openly combatted, what approach would you recommend?

    If military is what it takes to ease tension, then fine. Not fine with them escalating of which I’ve seen a lot. 

    Why would I have a problem with someone defending their property within the constraints of the law? I’d like to think that no one views their stock as more important than most all human life but if they feel truly endangered I get it. 


    I do my best to see things from different perspectives, even if there are things I’ll never understand.  Not a cop hater, not cheering on riots or looting, dislike the rampant weaponizing of viewpoints. We’re all practically identical in what we ultimately want out of life and there are a million ideas on how to get there and I bet none of them are 100% right. I’ve tried, especially lately  after lashing out at a family member that’s a fervent Trumper, to understand more of that general perspective. I like being “ around” people that care about other people and thats a big part of why I’ve hung around here(probably what 90% left leaning?) and why I stick around the area I grew up, which is red as red can be. 



  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    DewieCox said:
    There is a line that shouldn’t be crossed. It’s the law, give or take a little one way or the other.

    When peaceful protest is ignored or openly combatted, what approach would you recommend?

    If military is what it takes to ease tension, then fine. Not fine with them escalating of which I’ve seen a lot. 

    Why would I have a problem with someone defending their property within the constraints of the law? I’d like to think that no one views their stock as more important than most all human life but if they feel truly endangered I get it. 


    I do my best to see things from different perspectives, even if there are things I’ll never understand.  Not a cop hater, not cheering on riots or looting, dislike the rampant weaponizing of viewpoints. We’re all practically identical in what we ultimately want out of life and there are a million ideas on how to get there and I bet none of them are 100% right. I’ve tried, especially lately  after lashing out at a family member that’s a fervent Trumper, to understand more of that general perspective. I like being “ around” people that care about other people and thats a big part of why I’ve hung around here(probably what 90% left leaning?) and why I stick around the area I grew up, which is red as red can be. 



    I think I better understand you now.  I think I misunderstood you to be saying that you are good with whatever it takes to make changes, whether it be looting, murder, etc.  I realize that isn’t your stance, and you seem way more level headed than the impression I got by reading your last comment at first glance.  When I see the craziness in these cities, my first thought is that there has got to be a method or avenue for change, but looting, rioting, assault is not it and should not be validated.  There is so much counterproductive shit happening and being endorsed that undermines the whole movement.  As Jesse Jackson put it, “embarrassing”.
  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,926
    bbiggs said:
    There has been so much discussion (both in the media and this forum) about the peaceful BLM movement being infiltrated by bad actors.  However, when a BLM organizer openly states that "I don't care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy's or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats," it discredits that entire argument.  There are BLM organizers openly condoning looting.  How can that be defended?  My brother lives downtown and has to show proof of residency to get past certain "check points" just to get to his damn apartment.  This has spiraled out of control with no clear, constructive purpose anymore.
    Which city? There was talk of that sort of thing in CHOP/CHAZ back when that was thing. Is your brother in Seattle?
    Chicago.  They blocked off a lot of the major arteries within downtown, so if you were an actual resident and needed to use that street to get home, you had to show ID.

  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,411
    Yes, ugly, frightening and embarrassing. 
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,712
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    There has been so much discussion (both in the media and this forum) about the peaceful BLM movement being infiltrated by bad actors.  However, when a BLM organizer openly states that "I don't care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy's or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats," it discredits that entire argument.  There are BLM organizers openly condoning looting.  How can that be defended?  My brother lives downtown and has to show proof of residency to get past certain "check points" just to get to his damn apartment.  This has spiraled out of control with no clear, constructive purpose anymore.
    Which city? There was talk of that sort of thing in CHOP/CHAZ back when that was thing. Is your brother in Seattle?
    Chicago.  They blocked off a lot of the major arteries within downtown, so if you were an actual resident and needed to use that street to get home, you had to show ID.

    Oh okay. I thought you were referring to a CHAZ-like situation where CHAZ-people were demanding IDs from locals. So this seems like a safety-measure rather than anarchists throwing their weight around. Nevertheless, it's ridiculous that's it's come to that in Chicago. But not surprising. 
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  • 23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,415
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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    23scidoo said:
    Nothing to see here, just enforcing mandatory mask laws, move along folks.
  • 23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,415
    PJPOWER said:
    23scidoo said:
    Nothing to see here, just enforcing mandatory mask laws, move along folks.
    ha, ok..
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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,258
    https://twitter.com/attorneycrump/status/1294671229505478658?s=21
    Just a noise complaint gets you a total beat down! Nice cops

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482
    And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


    https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,072
    And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


    https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting
    This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.
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  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,411
    Be interesting to see how it actually played out and the actual motivation to “escalate”. 

    Sad that its a step I n the right direction as far as accountability. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


    https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting
    This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.
    I can agree there doesn’t seem to be reasonable use of deadly force.
    But what do you mean a needless interaction created by the cop and then escalated by the cop?
    According to that article he was stopping him a traffic offense. What is needless about that? He then fled and refused to pull over. Again, how is that the cop escalating it?
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,821
    mace1229 said:
    And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


    https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting
    This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.
    I can agree there doesn’t seem to be reasonable use of deadly force.
    But what do you mean a needless interaction created by the cop and then escalated by the cop?
    According to that article he was stopping him a traffic offense. What is needless about that? He then fled and refused to pull over. Again, how is that the cop escalating it?
    The cop ran him off the road for a broken tail light. He then fired into the car without even providing a verbal warning first. I’d call that escalating. 
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,072
    mace1229 said:
    And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


    https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting
    This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.
    I can agree there doesn’t seem to be reasonable use of deadly force.
    But what do you mean a needless interaction created by the cop and then escalated by the cop?
    According to that article he was stopping him a traffic offense. What is needless about that? He then fled and refused to pull over. Again, how is that the cop escalating it?
    The cop ran him off the road for a broken tail light. He then fired into the car without even providing a verbal warning first. I’d call that escalating. 
    Yes, sorry didn't see this until now.  But this exactly.  
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,072
    I was stopped once for having a fog light out.  A FOG LIGHT.  I was near a university and I think they were trying to get me for more.  Thankfully I'm white.  My daughter was an infant in the car, crying and it was like -20F (without the windchill).  A FOG LIGHT OUT.  Stupid cops generate so many needless interactions its embarrassing.  As I said, thank god I was white and I just got a ticket for a FOG LIGHT out (not a headlight).  I had left the fog lights on from the previous drive.

    Here's the deal.  If cops actually thought the best of people instead of always thinking the worst...there'd be less needless interactions and far less escalation.  But they don't.  They assume the worst and actively go and try and catch it even when it's not happening.  
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  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,411
    Judging from the story, fleeing is the initial escalation, though the cop blew the whole thing out of the water and doesn’t seem to be a reliable source.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    mace1229 said:
    And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


    https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting
    This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.
    I can agree there doesn’t seem to be reasonable use of deadly force.
    But what do you mean a needless interaction created by the cop and then escalated by the cop?
    According to that article he was stopping him a traffic offense. What is needless about that? He then fled and refused to pull over. Again, how is that the cop escalating it?
    The cop ran him off the road for a broken tail light. He then fired into the car without even providing a verbal warning first. I’d call that escalating. 
    They both escalated the situation. The cop just had the last word.
    And still wasn’t a “needless interaction” at first. The cop was just in pulling him over.
    And he wasn’t run off the road for a broken tail like, he was run off for fleeing. One’s a fix-it ticket and ones a felony with real jail time.

    The cop seems to have done a lot wrong here. And the charges against him seem to fit. I just don’t agree with saying it was a needless interaction that started it and don’t agree with the assessment this cop is running people off the road over a fix-it ticket.
  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TX Posts: 1,167
    mace1229 said:
    And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


    https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting
    This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.
    I can agree there doesn’t seem to be reasonable use of deadly force.
    But what do you mean a needless interaction created by the cop and then escalated by the cop?
    According to that article he was stopping him a traffic offense. What is needless about that? He then fled and refused to pull over. Again, how is that the cop escalating it?
    The cop ran him off the road for a broken tail light. He then fired into the car without even providing a verbal warning first. I’d call that escalating. 
    He tried to pull him over for a broken tail light, it appears he then tried a PIT maneuver after the victim refused to stop and led a chase down several county roads. Refusing to stop and running "escalated" the situation from a normal traffic stop. What ultimately happened appears very unnecessary, but creating a situation where you force a police officer to make a split second decision is never a good idea.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,821
    Good policing practice requires assessing when it makes sense to pursue someone and when it doesn’t. Police pursuit tends to lead to bad outcomes, which is why it is now discouraged and tighter guidelines are in place in competent police departments. 

    The pursuit was needless. That officer had no reasonable cause for it, since he had no reason to suspect the victim other than a broken tail light (and of course the colour of his skin). That was his first mistake, but unfortunately for the victim not his last. 

    And my, I wonder why the victim would have been reluctant to stop his car for this officer? 
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,072
    Good policing practice requires assessing when it makes sense to pursue someone and when it doesn’t. Police pursuit tends to lead to bad outcomes, which is why it is now discouraged and tighter guidelines are in place in competent police departments. 

    The pursuit was needless. That officer had no reasonable cause for it, since he had no reason to suspect the victim other than a broken tail light (and of course the colour of his skin). That was his first mistake, but unfortunately for the victim not his last. 

    And my, I wonder why the victim would have been reluctant to stop his car for this officer? 
    Solid question.
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  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TX Posts: 1,167
    Good policing practice requires assessing when it makes sense to pursue someone and when it doesn’t. Police pursuit tends to lead to bad outcomes, which is why it is now discouraged and tighter guidelines are in place in competent police departments. 

    The pursuit was needless. That officer had no reasonable cause for it, since he had no reason to suspect the victim other than a broken tail light (and of course the colour of his skin). That was his first mistake, but unfortunately for the victim not his last. 

    And my, I wonder why the victim would have been reluctant to stop his car for this officer? 
    With roughly 50-60 million police to public interactions and around 1,000 people (of all races) losing their lives at the hands of police each year, the fear of one becoming a statistic is a bit excessive. Especially when you only factor those who were truly victims of wrongdoing. If deaths by police were a virus there would be very little public concern, but somehow the topic has been elevated to full blown pandemic mode. There are obviously issues in this country with policing, but the numbers do not match the current message being portrayed.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    JW269453 said:
    Good policing practice requires assessing when it makes sense to pursue someone and when it doesn’t. Police pursuit tends to lead to bad outcomes, which is why it is now discouraged and tighter guidelines are in place in competent police departments. 

    The pursuit was needless. That officer had no reasonable cause for it, since he had no reason to suspect the victim other than a broken tail light (and of course the colour of his skin). That was his first mistake, but unfortunately for the victim not his last. 

    And my, I wonder why the victim would have been reluctant to stop his car for this officer? 
    With roughly 50-60 million police to public interactions and around 1,000 people (of all races) losing their lives at the hands of police each year, the fear of one becoming a statistic is a bit excessive. Especially when you only factor those who were truly victims of wrongdoing. If deaths by police were a virus there would be very little public concern, but somehow the topic has been elevated to full blown pandemic mode. There are obviously issues in this country with policing, but the numbers do not match the current message being portrayed.
    Exactly. To say he was afraid for his life as the reason for not pulling over is ridiculous. I think that 50-60 million interactions is a low estimate. Not cooperating and turning a traffic stop into a felony will certainly increase your chances of this not ending well.
    As far as I can tell the cop didn’t have justification to shoot him. I agree on that. But let’s stop getting more people killed by spreading fear. I remember I heard CNN anchor justify Rayshard Brooks using that taser because he knew he’d be murdered if he got in that cop car. I thought our system was over crowded with minorities? How’d that happen if they are all murdered on the way?
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,411
    Sounds like the cop was a known shitbag, to some in the public at the very least. 
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,821
    Some people are actually questioning the fact that people of colour would do their very best to avoid being stopped by police, even after all that's happened over the past couple of months?
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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,821
    mace1229 said:
    JW269453 said:
    Good policing practice requires assessing when it makes sense to pursue someone and when it doesn’t. Police pursuit tends to lead to bad outcomes, which is why it is now discouraged and tighter guidelines are in place in competent police departments. 

    The pursuit was needless. That officer had no reasonable cause for it, since he had no reason to suspect the victim other than a broken tail light (and of course the colour of his skin). That was his first mistake, but unfortunately for the victim not his last. 

    And my, I wonder why the victim would have been reluctant to stop his car for this officer? 
    With roughly 50-60 million police to public interactions and around 1,000 people (of all races) losing their lives at the hands of police each year, the fear of one becoming a statistic is a bit excessive. Especially when you only factor those who were truly victims of wrongdoing. If deaths by police were a virus there would be very little public concern, but somehow the topic has been elevated to full blown pandemic mode. There are obviously issues in this country with policing, but the numbers do not match the current message being portrayed.
    Exactly. To say he was afraid for his life as the reason for not pulling over is ridiculous. I think that 50-60 million interactions is a low estimate. Not cooperating and turning a traffic stop into a felony will certainly increase your chances of this not ending well.
    As far as I can tell the cop didn’t have justification to shoot him. I agree on that. But let’s stop getting more people killed by spreading fear. I remember I heard CNN anchor justify Rayshard Brooks using that taser because he knew he’d be murdered if he got in that cop car. I thought our system was over crowded with minorities? How’d that happen if they are all murdered on the way?
    Hey, you’re right, I guess they don’t all die! Some just get racially profiled, detained without cause, roughed up and unfairly incarcerated. 
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  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,411
    Is driving around with a broken taillight and/or fleeing really doing their best to avoid being stopped? More went into him running  than a $100 ticket and if it was fear of it escalating to the extent that it did than fleeing seems justified. 

    I’ve never been profiled but if I was uncomfortable with the location or absence of a reason I’d at least go someplace more public or call 911. We need to get to where everyone believes that is a viable option. 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,072
    edited August 2020
    https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/07/09/philando-stops/

    Let's just stop pretending these are one offs.  Cops are targeting black men especially and making all kinds of reasons as to why to stop them.  And each time it creates a situation of frustration and fear.  Limiting encounters is the best option.

    52 times.  How many times have you been stopped?
    Post edited by cincybearcat on
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