The Concept of God

amethgr8 · August 2017

That's when I kind of moved away from believing in God. When I saw other religions that had their "book" and preached from it, prayed, etc. similar to what I experienced only in different ways. I thought all those kids in that country are being taught this other, and they are believing it just like I might being taught to believe this. Is t it ironic we all believe ours is the right way, because each "book" says so..

i went to church, not by choice, until junior high school. I see my nieces now in their late 20's, they were not babtised, their children are not, and probably have only attended a regular service a handful of times on the request of an elder. They do not necessarily believe in God, I know one that's does not for sure, and even tho their Grammys believe, they don't. I think early exposure has a lot to do with it. I didn't waiver away earlier in my life probably out of fear.

I have faith in life, mine, all my loved ones around me, their hopes and mine for myself and them, have got this far in life and I will make it the rest that of whatever's way I am to go. If I am at breaking point I think of someone I know who has it worse and came out okay and I just try to get up with a smile.

i think if someone has make it through a life treatening event and they live, or they walked when docs said they wouldn't, that outcome is a result of all their life energy. I certainly cannot explain everything. There is such sadness in the world for people it should not be sad, is that their energy? I don't know..having a God to turn to when a devasting event happens is little colsolation.

loving the convo!

amy

FoxyRedLa · August 2017

PJ_Soul said:

Atheists are Atheists because they don't believe in God, not because they hate religion. Some Atheists do "hate" religion or feel a disdain for it, or contempt, as HFD put it, but that is because of all the evidenced moral and sociological and economic and political reasons that might make a person feel that way, not because they don't believe in God.

What's a God-less religion?

evsgjamm · August 2017

I don't believe in God.

disclosure: I was baptized Christian, went to Sunday school, went to confirmation classes, was confirmed, in Saskatchewan, Canada.
We'll be baptizing our daughter only to show respect to her grandparents, whom are devout Christians / Roman Catholics.

PJfanwillneverleave1 · August 2017

As a concept an Atheist is just a person who does not believe in the belief of a god.

Annafalk · August 2017

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries. My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes. And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

which is why I can't give money to the christian's children's fund. "send us money under the pretense of helping poor people and we use it for indoctrination".

I can agree with that.

Not all christians as all other people are good people, I think people like that are pure evil.

Smellyman · August 2017

If you have 20 minutes give it a watch. If you have another 20 minutes watch Hitchens' speech at the same event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SJ6AV31MxA

brianlux · August 2017

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries. My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes. And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

And there is the boomerang that just came back and hit me in the face. That's what I love about you PJ soul

I am sorry - I know your heart is in the right place. I just gotta say what I gotta say - I believe these things as strongly as you believe in God. I guess we both just have to keep expressing what we think!

That's what keeps it fun for me. There are good apples and there are bad apples. There are good Christian Missionary programs, and there are sucky ones that suck money and profit for no good reason.

Okay.... TBH, I happen to think that there aren't any good missionary programs because I've never heard of any that don't intend to convert non-Christians. "Spreading the good word" is not a positive thing to me. It's a negative thing.

This reminds me, appropriately enough, of the saying, "hate the sin, don't hate the sinner". I know a guy who was a missionary in New Guinea. I've read enough about that small country to know that settlers, evangelists, missionaries, military and other assorted (mostly white) folks gave that place a royal ream job. So what this guy did there I would categorize as such. But the man is one of the kindest, sweetest, most big hearted guys I know. I will speak out against the action in any appropriate time or place but I would never sell the friendship down the river simply to be right.

Easy words, difficult task to accomplish, but the right thing is often the difficult thing to do.

rgambs · August 2017

Atheists do get mad sometimes.
I get mad that my sister in law is indoctrinating my niece and nephew into a club which rejects science and rational thought. I get even madder that this club is proven to be a haven for, and protector of, child rapists.

Annafalk · August 2017

rgambs said:

Atheists do get mad sometimes.
I get mad that my sister in law is indoctrinating my niece and nephew into a club which rejects science and rational thought. I get even madder that this club is proven to be a haven for, and protector of, child rapists.

That sounds horrible, how can she act so irresponsible? What does she say when you ask her about it?

HughFreakingDillon · August 2017

FoxyRedLa said:

PJ_Soul said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Just all the hate about organized religion.

Well... just so you know, a comment like that about Atheists is about equivalent to someone saying that all religious people are stupid (and that religious people aren't angry or hateful, for that matter, which we all know is very far from being the case, lol).

The reason I said that is because I thought the reason atheists were angry is because of "organized" religion. Why else would they have hatred towards religion itself?

HughFreakingDillon said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Just all the hate about organized religion.

there is a lot of anger towards organized religion, not religion itself. I don't even know if I'd use anger as the right word. Maybe "contempt". the reason for that can be seen throughout history, all the pain and strife organized religion, particularly the catholic church, has reigned down on people over the centuries is well documented. They STILL protect known pedophiles.

I don't see a difference between hate towards religion and hate towards organized religion.

what I mean is, there are plenty of people, I would say the majority of people who are religious, are good, and their beliefs come from a good place. the church they belong to, however, I don't hold in the same regard.

you can be religious without belonging to a church and giving money to a corrupt organization that claims to do good in the community but just uses that money to bring more and more people in so they can get more and more money and so they can build bigger and bigger buildings to gather in, when, from what I recall, that is in direct conflict with something in the bible, I can't recall if it was god or jesus or whoever said it.

that being said, there are religious views that I obviously think are evil. I've mentioned him a thousand times here, so my apologies, but my brother, his wife, and their son all believe that homosexuals are evil and are going to hell, and he thinks HE is the victim when he's called a bigot and that his religion is under attack. so, you can see where my objectivity on this matter can get slightly skewed.

my wife and two beautiful daughters are catholic. I respect their views. we talk about it openly in our house, why "daddy doesn't believe in god". and it's healthy that way. I am respectful to their views as they are to mine, and I try to explain my views as best I can so an 8 and 11 year old can understand and be open and respectful of the views of others.

HughFreakingDillon · August 2017

RYME said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Hugh is there anything else you can think of that you have Faith in that no one else can explain? Anything not even religious. Just throwing it out there.

good question. I was actually trying to think of that, and I really can't think of anything. I don't ascribe to faith. I can "hope" for things, but that's not the same. I'm not sitting here thinking that anything has an influence over what I'm hoping for, I'm just hoping the randomness of the universe turns out in my favour.

Ya see, HFD my faith says that there is nothing random about you, or your existence. That He created you as one of His children. That you are a unique individual. He created your soul with you in mind. Your DNA, & finger prints are different from anyone else's. He wants you to know that you are special to Him. He created you because He wanted to.
He wants to take the burdens and anxieties out of your life. Day to day issues, and struggles continue, they certainly do for everyone, but they become easier to deal with. He knows that believing would be difficult for many. That's why there are people around, who try to spread the good news whenever possible knowing full well that it might not be real popular.
No I don't run around on the streets yelling God and Jesus with bumper stickers all over my car. I'm not one of those.

If I had all the answers I certainly wouldn't be driving a semi-truck.
But I'm bringing this down in case HFD missed it because we started talking about missionaries.

I didn't miss it, I just wasn't sure how to respond to it at the time.

ok, so he wanted to create me. so that means he didn't want to create my two nieces that died, one in utero, and one a month old? see, this I don't get. nothing is random, yet we have free will. god created you, but if you get cancer, it's all part of his plan.

if I have free will, then my daughters being created by myself and my wife had zero to do with god.

if nothing is random, then they are his children because he wanted them to be.

so which is it?

FoxyRedLa · August 2017

Hugh I agree. I do not belong to a church. My kids are not baptized, however they each had a dedication ceremony where my husband and I and some family members came together and vowed in front of a nondenominational congregation that we would protect and teach our kids.

We are more than welcome to go to that church at any time, we dont.

I'm struggling to understand how someone can not believe in God but is ok with religion? Or whatever words you want to use here. You're ok with the good people that believe in God but not the people that just show up for xmas mass?

It doesn't matter really tho - I equated atheists with anger and am wrong so. Just seems God talk brings out the best in all of us....

HughFreakingDillon · August 2017

FoxyRedLa said:

Hugh I agree. I do not belong to a church. My kids are not baptized, however they each had a dedication ceremony where my husband and I and some family members came together and vowed in front of a nondenominational congregation that we would protect and teach our kids.

We are more than welcome to go to that church at any time, we dont.

I'm struggling to understand how someone can not believe in God but is ok with religion? Or whatever words you want to use here. You're ok with the good people that believe in God but not the people that just show up for xmas mass?

It doesn't matter really tho - I equated atheists with anger and am wrong so. Just seems God talk brings out the best in all of us....

why would I have a problem with someone's belief system? I would hope someone wouldn't have a problem with mine. I have no problem with anyone who believes anything they believe, as long as it doesn't lead to action that infringes on the rights and freedoms of others, or hurts others in any way. spiritual beliefs are very personal, so I don't judge others on that. I wouldn't be married to someone who prays everyday if I did!

I waffle between being agnostic and atheist, in that I don't currently believe there is a god, but I can also admit I can't prove there isn't one. something had to have created everything, whether it be a god or something else, who knows.

HughFreakingDillon · August 2017

FoxyRedLa said:

Hugh I agree. I do not belong to a church. My kids are not baptized, however they each had a dedication ceremony where my husband and I and some family members came together and vowed in front of a nondenominational congregation that we would protect and teach our kids.

We are more than welcome to go to that church at any time, we dont.

I'm struggling to understand how someone can not believe in God but is ok with religion? Or whatever words you want to use here. You're ok with the good people that believe in God but not the people that just show up for xmas mass?

It doesn't matter really tho - I equated atheists with anger and am wrong so. Just seems God talk brings out the best in all of us....

and I'm glad you have realized that misconception, as I think a lot of religious folks have this idea that all atheists are god-haters. we're not. we don't even really think about it that much. many of us just turned that way because of personal experiences/thoughts.

I don't even think it really makes sense to be identified as something I'm not, rather than what I am. when you think about it, it's kind of odd, isn't it? I wouldn't call myself ahomosexual. or afemale. LOL

rgambs · August 2017

Annafalk said:

rgambs said:

Atheists do get mad sometimes.
I get mad that my sister in law is indoctrinating my niece and nephew into a club which rejects science and rational thought. I get even madder that this club is proven to be a haven for, and protector of, child rapists.

That sounds horrible, how can she act so irresponsible? What does she say when you ask her about it?

She says she wants to be Catholic and that's all.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · August 2017

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries. My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes. And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

And there is the boomerang that just came back and hit me in the face. That's what I love about you PJ soul

I am sorry - I know your heart is in the right place. I just gotta say what I gotta say - I believe these things as strongly as you believe in God. I guess we both just have to keep expressing what we think!

That's what keeps it fun for me. There are good apples and there are bad apples. There are good Christian Missionary programs, and there are sucky ones that suck money and profit for no good reason.

Okay.... TBH, I happen to think that there aren't any good missionary programs because I've never heard of any that don't intend to convert non-Christians. "Spreading the good word" is not a positive thing to me. It's a negative thing.

I was answering HFD's question. And to my knowledge, the two missionaries that know didn't kill anybody, or cause any carnage, or sabotage the New Guinean way of life.

but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

Excellent question.

God only bothered to enlighten 'some' of his children with the way? Oceans dividing continents and no internet... how were, say, native Americans supposed to lead a Christian life and get to heaven?

Thirty Bills Unpaid · August 2017

Annafalk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Annafalk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

@RYME I will ask you directly: what makes your beliefs more believable than another religion's? you have to admit your beliefs are a product of your geography and/or your upbringing, no?

Annafalk said:

amethgr8 said:

Or the Jehovah Witnesses, their interpretation of god and the Bible is wrong? Compared to Christian belief?

I don't recall anyone has been talking down on other religions, you can believe what you want, but one has to speak from where one is standing.
You speak from your own point of view as everyone else does.

HughFreakingDillon said:

@RYME I will ask you directly: what makes your beliefs more believable than another religion's? you have to admit your beliefs are a product of your geography and/or your upbringing, no?

Hmmm good question. My grandma got me started. But after that one pursues as much or as little as they want after that. No one forced me to continue in my faith from about 4th grade on. Geography, I don't know about that, there are quite a few Christians around the world different denominations of course. Although you'd never know it, there's Christians in every country around the world but as you would expect in some places they cannot be outspoken about it.
Just like some of you went to a church when you were young changed your mind on it and have pretty much gone the other way. Free will comes back into play here.
Throughout life I've continued a healthy relationship with my Lord Jesus. I've been in a few dangerous situations that should have gone really really bad but didn't. No other explanation for me other than He must have intervened, for me to have come away unscathed. I have nothing against other religions. I read & study God's Word pray every day or two, I ask for forgiveness for things that I've done wrong, I thank Him for the blessings in my life, and ask for guidance and strength for things I struggle with.
Judging or condemning other religions is none of my business.

you are avoiding the question. I'll be more direct: had you been born in Japan, or North Africa, or Iran, do you really believe you would still be Christian?

no one is asking you to judge another religion. My question was: what do you believe makes Jesus/God your god, as opposed to Allah, or Buddah? do you believe those gods also exist, or yours is the one true god? if so, what makes your religion the "correct" one? I have asked this of many christians over the years, and no one has been able to explain it to me.

Jesus was declaring Himself the great “I Am,” the only path to heaven, the only true measure of righteousness, and the source of both physical and spiritual life.

And also;

"You should have no other gods before me"

does anyone know if other gods have these "rules" or not? if so, why not follow that god's rule? if not, is this christian god's way of saying he's not the only one, and is kind of a possessive god, kind of like an asshole boyfriend?

And also, what about the geography question? do you think you would have found christianity had you been born in iran?

There is only one God so I don't know of any other rules, but I know of course other religions has a lot of different rules.
I think people most probably adopts to the culture in which they are born.

My god is better than your god?

Those guys are believing in a god that isn't even there?

Sounds a touch atheist to me.

Annafalk · August 2017

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Annafalk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Annafalk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

@RYME I will ask you directly: what makes your beliefs more believable than another religion's? you have to admit your beliefs are a product of your geography and/or your upbringing, no?

Annafalk said:

amethgr8 said:

Or the Jehovah Witnesses, their interpretation of god and the Bible is wrong? Compared to Christian belief?

I don't recall anyone has been talking down on other religions, you can believe what you want, but one has to speak from where one is standing.
You speak from your own point of view as everyone else does.

HughFreakingDillon said:

@RYME I will ask you directly: what makes your beliefs more believable than another religion's? you have to admit your beliefs are a product of your geography and/or your upbringing, no?

Hmmm good question. My grandma got me started. But after that one pursues as much or as little as they want after that. No one forced me to continue in my faith from about 4th grade on. Geography, I don't know about that, there are quite a few Christians around the world different denominations of course. Although you'd never know it, there's Christians in every country around the world but as you would expect in some places they cannot be outspoken about it.
Just like some of you went to a church when you were young changed your mind on it and have pretty much gone the other way. Free will comes back into play here.
Throughout life I've continued a healthy relationship with my Lord Jesus. I've been in a few dangerous situations that should have gone really really bad but didn't. No other explanation for me other than He must have intervened, for me to have come away unscathed. I have nothing against other religions. I read & study God's Word pray every day or two, I ask for forgiveness for things that I've done wrong, I thank Him for the blessings in my life, and ask for guidance and strength for things I struggle with.
Judging or condemning other religions is none of my business.

you are avoiding the question. I'll be more direct: had you been born in Japan, or North Africa, or Iran, do you really believe you would still be Christian?

no one is asking you to judge another religion. My question was: what do you believe makes Jesus/God your god, as opposed to Allah, or Buddah? do you believe those gods also exist, or yours is the one true god? if so, what makes your religion the "correct" one? I have asked this of many christians over the years, and no one has been able to explain it to me.

Jesus was declaring Himself the great “I Am,” the only path to heaven, the only true measure of righteousness, and the source of both physical and spiritual life.

And also;

"You should have no other gods before me"

does anyone know if other gods have these "rules" or not? if so, why not follow that god's rule? if not, is this christian god's way of saying he's not the only one, and is kind of a possessive god, kind of like an asshole boyfriend?

And also, what about the geography question? do you think you would have found christianity had you been born in iran?

There is only one God so I don't know of any other rules, but I know of course other religions has a lot of different rules.
I think people most probably adopts to the culture in which they are born.

My god is better than your god?

Those guys are believing in a god that isn't even there?

Sounds a touch atheist to me.

I can't answer whom people from other religions are praying to, I have no idea. I hope it's the same God

PJ_Soul · August 2017

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

As a concept an Atheist is just a person who does not believe in the belief of a god.

No, an Atheist is a person who does not believe in God, period. We do believe in the belief of God (there is no reason not to).

PJ_Soul · August 2017

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries. My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes. And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

And there is the boomerang that just came back and hit me in the face. That's what I love about you PJ soul

I am sorry - I know your heart is in the right place. I just gotta say what I gotta say - I believe these things as strongly as you believe in God. I guess we both just have to keep expressing what we think!

That's what keeps it fun for me. There are good apples and there are bad apples. There are good Christian Missionary programs, and there are sucky ones that suck money and profit for no good reason.

Okay.... TBH, I happen to think that there aren't any good missionary programs because I've never heard of any that don't intend to convert non-Christians. "Spreading the good word" is not a positive thing to me. It's a negative thing.

This reminds me, appropriately enough, of the saying, "hate the sin, don't hate the sinner". I know a guy who was a missionary in New Guinea. I've read enough about that small country to know that settlers, evangelists, missionaries, military and other assorted (mostly white) folks gave that place a royal ream job. So what this guy did there I would categorize as such. But the man is one of the kindest, sweetest, most big hearted guys I know. I will speak out against the action in any appropriate time or place but I would never sell the friendship down the river simply to be right.

Easy words, difficult task to accomplish, but the right thing is often the difficult thing to do.

I don't hate the "sinner" at all. Never in my life have I said or thought anything about "hating" religious people just because they are religious... I judge individuals by their individual actions. I have been and am very close to some religious people. And some of them are very devout followers of Churches that I abhor, and I think anyone who tries to or wants to convert others are misguided at best. That doesn't mean I don't like them as people.

The Concept of God

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