The Concept of God
Comments
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The thoughts of the Bible being jacked up by man. What if that's true? What if man simply jacked up the Bible. Like how the media makes up facts? But behind every story there's the truth...?Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.0 -
Look around you. Do all humans look the same? No, because they have evolved in areas with different selection pressures.FoxyRedLa said:To the answers above thank you. I wonder why we haven't seen the start of anything. Something. Something big. What will mutated bacteria grow into? A super bug that is like locus? As in we can see it with our own eyes? Why haven't we seen a human mutation whether good or bad? As in a human that can breath under water or something. I do get it took thousands of years for humans to be what we are based on evolution just seems odd we can't even see the start of something.
We aee many, many human mutations if you look around. All those genetic diseases involving chromosomes or single genes? They're mutations. Sadly, most are deleterious; that's always the way. The odd one is advantageous.
So far there is no selection pressure favouring the ability to breathe underwater. We have plenty of land to live on. I'm not sure if you got the chance to read some of those articles as they may answer your questions about evolutionary processes.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
What time period are you asking about? You can't observe the kind of evolution that you are talking about within a lifetime. But if you're suggesting that, say, humans aren't still evolving, that isn't the case. One observable example of humans still evolving is the tendon on our inner wrists. Our bodies are phasing it out - some of us have it and some of us don't. https://www.davidwolfe.com/tendon-protrude-from-wrist/FoxyRedLa said:To the answers above thank you. I wonder why we haven't seen the start of anything. Something. Something big. What will mutated bacteria grow into? A super bug that is like locus? As in we can see it with our own eyes? Why haven't we seen a human mutation whether good or bad? As in a human that can breath under water or something. I do get it took thousands of years for humans to be what we are based on evolution just seems odd we can't even see the start of something.
As for humans just kind of randomly evolving into water breathing animals... why would that happen? We have no reason to evolve in that direction. If, though, humans were forced to largely live in water, then you probably would see them evolve into animals that could live in water after a million+ years (of course the entire species will be wiped out by then in any case, to the point is kind of moot).
Another good example of observable evolution in humans is the appendix. It used to be useful, now it's pretty redundant and can be removed without any harm done. Oh, and skin colour, eye colour, and size.
But to answer your question about bacteria, yes, superbugs are absolutely evolving. I'm not sure how much you know about the damage that superbugs are wreaking on people now, but maybe look it up. It is a bigger and bigger problem every day, and yes, at some point pretty soon they are likely to evolve to the point where they spread out of control no matter what we do to try and prevent the spread of them. We'll just have to wait and see how that goes. Keep in mind, evolution slows down or speeds up based on necessity. At the moment, humans don't really have much of a reason to evolve drastically because we've managed to get to the point where we control nature instead of the other way around.
Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Here is an interesting take on the slavery issue.rgambs said:
It's ok, it's just on one side of a demarcating line of civilization that I hopeAnnafalk said:
Freedom of speech and religion is a basic right. I haven't tried to convince anyone anything, just sharing my beliefs and talking should be ok, why enter this thread otherwise.rgambs said:
It isn't wrong to have beliefs, it is wrong to use those beliefs (which aren't supported by credible evidence) to influence the world and other people's lives.Annafalk said:Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
If I believe tomorrow won't come, that's fine for me.
But if I believe that and I go out convincing people to believe as I do, I can have intended or unintended consequences. Maybe people with darkness in their hearts act out their sick desires, maybe people spend all their money, etc.
It works the same way if I go out and convince people that they will live forever in paradise. Maybe they will take this fleeting life for granted and waste it.
If I believe an invisible man in the sky thinks a man can't love another man... whatever, that's weird, but whatever.
If I say so out loud, if I join an organisation which says so out loud, I am crossing a line which is not fucking cool.
that humanity will someday leave behind.
Then we can stop trying to determine right and wrong from ancient texts and start our determination with the existence of suffering and go from there.
The Bible condones, endorses, and codifies slavery as acceptable, why do you differ in opinion with your Holy Text?
You know that slavery is wrong and produces suffering is the answer.
If that standard were to be expanded fully, the Holy Texts will fall away as the silly, archaic, pieces of trash that they are.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html
Post edited by RYME on0 -
Slavery in biblical times was not the same slavery as the last few hundred years. It was more of an economic status. To pay off debts, people became "enslaved" to someone else to work off their debt. Some people sold themselves as "slaves" so they could be taken care of because they were poor or had no skill they could make a living off of. Even in the New Testament, some higher class people were "slaves" to those of a higher class than them. And even then, the Bible says that after 6 years they are free and you must compensate them for their work. It wasn't race based like what the US did to black people. It wasn't a "you're beneath me and I'm going to make you my slave". Actually the Bible condemns slavery for how we know it and race based slavery and those who may steal someone and sell them, that they should be put to death (Exodus 21:6) and in the New Testament slave traders are considered ungodly and sinful.rgambs said:
It's ok, it's just on one side of a demarcating line of civilization that I hopeAnnafalk said:
Freedom of speech and religion is a basic right. I haven't tried to convince anyone anything, just sharing my beliefs and talking should be ok, why enter this thread otherwise.rgambs said:
It isn't wrong to have beliefs, it is wrong to use those beliefs (which aren't supported by credible evidence) to influence the world and other people's lives.Annafalk said:Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
If I believe tomorrow won't come, that's fine for me.
But if I believe that and I go out convincing people to believe as I do, I can have intended or unintended consequences. Maybe people with darkness in their hearts act out their sick desires, maybe people spend all their money, etc.
It works the same way if I go out and convince people that they will live forever in paradise. Maybe they will take this fleeting life for granted and waste it.
If I believe an invisible man in the sky thinks a man can't love another man... whatever, that's weird, but whatever.
If I say so out loud, if I join an organisation which says so out loud, I am crossing a line which is not fucking cool. that humanity will someday leave behind.
Then we can stop trying to determine right and wrong from ancient texts and start our determination with the existence of suffering and go from there.
The Bible condones, endorses, and codifies slavery as acceptable, why do you differ in opinion with your Holy Text?
You know that slavery is wrong and produces suffering is the answer.
If that standard were to be expanded fully, the Holy Texts will fall away as the silly, archaic, pieces of trash that they are.
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Did you go to Catholic school?FoxyRedLa said:To the answers above thank you. I wonder why we haven't seen the start of anything. Something. Something big. What will mutated bacteria grow into? A super bug that is like locus? As in we can see it with our own eyes? Why haven't we seen a human mutation whether good or bad? As in a human that can breath under water or something. I do get it took thousands of years for humans to be what we are based on evolution just seems odd we can't even see the start of something.
I'm not trying to be a dick, you seem like a great person, I'm just wondering because my niece is going to Catholic school starting this year and I wonder if they really actually teach science and not give it lip service.
All your questions represent misunderstandings about the basics of evolution and one of the reasons I dislike religion is because I fault the church systems for these misunderstandings.
Evolution most often works through adaptations to external pressures. Bacteria are turning into bacteria that can survive exposure to once fatal antibiotics. That is the pressure that they are adapting to. No reason to get big, in fact, individuals with those mutations may be less likely to survive.
We do see bad mutations in humans, often those individuals don't survive.
It doesn't take thousands of years for complex organisms to make complex changes, it takes hundreds of thousands to millions.
If humans were to evolve to breathe under water, first we would need to be semi-aquatic to have pressure to do so in the first place. Then, for instance, some individual will mutate to develop a small portion of lung which functions (poorly) like a gill and that individual is less likely to drown and passes on the mutation. Now you take that and multiply it across many individuals and many many generations and eventually you have a human which breathes under water.
Gills don't sprout suddenly in a single generation, and hell, even if they did, the baby born with gills would suffocate in the air anyways.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
That was sometimes the case, but not always, and not always the kind of slavery mentioned in the Bible. There was horrible, abusive slavery where people were stolen away and worked to death in ancient times too, as well as the kind of indentured slavery that you're talking about. It just depended on the time and place.ponytd said:
Slavery in biblical times was not the same slavery as the last few hundred years. It was more of an economic status. To pay off debts, people became "enslaved" to someone else to work off their debt. Some people sold themselves as "slaves" so they could be taken care of because they were poor or had no skill they could make a living off of. Even in the New Testament, some higher class people were "slaves" to those of a higher class than them. And even then, the Bible says that after 6 years they are free and you must compensate them for their work. It wasn't race based like what the US did to black people. It wasn't a "you're beneath me and I'm going to make you my slave". Actually the Bible condemns slavery for how we know it and race based slavery and those who may steal someone and sell them, that they should be put to death (Exodus 21:6) and in the New Testament slave traders are considered ungodly and sinful.rgambs said:
It's ok, it's just on one side of a demarcating line of civilization that I hopeAnnafalk said:
Freedom of speech and religion is a basic right. I haven't tried to convince anyone anything, just sharing my beliefs and talking should be ok, why enter this thread otherwise.rgambs said:
It isn't wrong to have beliefs, it is wrong to use those beliefs (which aren't supported by credible evidence) to influence the world and other people's lives.Annafalk said:Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
If I believe tomorrow won't come, that's fine for me.
But if I believe that and I go out convincing people to believe as I do, I can have intended or unintended consequences. Maybe people with darkness in their hearts act out their sick desires, maybe people spend all their money, etc.
It works the same way if I go out and convince people that they will live forever in paradise. Maybe they will take this fleeting life for granted and waste it.
If I believe an invisible man in the sky thinks a man can't love another man... whatever, that's weird, but whatever.
If I say so out loud, if I join an organisation which says so out loud, I am crossing a line which is not fucking cool. that humanity will someday leave behind.
Then we can stop trying to determine right and wrong from ancient texts and start our determination with the existence of suffering and go from there.
The Bible condones, endorses, and codifies slavery as acceptable, why do you differ in opinion with your Holy Text?
You know that slavery is wrong and produces suffering is the answer.
If that standard were to be expanded fully, the Holy Texts will fall away as the silly, archaic, pieces of trash that they are.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
"We are literally star dust" I was simply trying to describe something as radical as humans forming from star dust. Not literally anything I wrote. Just something as radical. Didn't we already talk about Adam and dust? No I do not go to catholic school. I doubt they teach science. And yes I understand the basics of evolution and how long it takes. I just find it odd there is nothing like "we are literally star dust" happening right now. What ever "it" may be.Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.0 -
Well you're talking about the beginning of the existence of life, not evolution millions of years into the lifespan of a species or life on Earth in general. Those two things really can't be compared. Since we exist, the moment of the creation of the first carbon-based life that we know of is obviously far behind us... Maybe I am still not understanding what you mean?FoxyRedLa said:"We are literally star dust" I was simply trying to describe something as radical as humans forming from star dust. Not literally anything I wrote. Just something as radical. Didn't we already talk about Adam and dust? No I do not go to catholic school. I doubt they teach science. And yes I understand the basics of evolution and how long it takes. I just find it odd there is nothing like "we are literally star dust" happening right now. What ever "it" may be.
Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
The conditions on earth right now are substantially different than they were at the time when pre-life conditions were present, so it shouldn't be surprising that you don't see that happening here.FoxyRedLa said:"We are literally star dust" I was simply trying to describe something as radical as humans forming from star dust. Not literally anything I wrote. Just something as radical. Didn't we already talk about Adam and dust? No I do not go to catholic school. I doubt they teach science. And yes I understand the basics of evolution and how long it takes. I just find it odd there is nothing like "we are literally star dust" happening right now. What ever "it" may be.
But you don't know that it isn't happening elsewhere in the universemy small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Correct. But the Bible doesn't condone the horrible ones. It doesn't actually condone slavery. The Greek and Hebrew words for slave also mean bondservant or servant. And as far as the "bad slavery" that we think of from our US history, the Bible says those that practice that form should be put to death. No where in the Bible does say "yeah, go ahead and force these people to work for you and treat them like crap". The Egyptians did that and got the whole Plague thing thrown at themPJ_Soul said:
That was sometimes the case, but not always, and not always the kind of slavery mentioned in the Bible. There was horrible, abusive slavery where people were stolen away and worked to death in ancient times too, as well as the kind of indentured slavery that you're talking about. It just depended on the time and place.ponytd said:
Slavery in biblical times was not the same slavery as the last few hundred years. It was more of an economic status. To pay off debts, people became "enslaved" to someone else to work off their debt. Some people sold themselves as "slaves" so they could be taken care of because they were poor or had no skill they could make a living off of. Even in the New Testament, some higher class people were "slaves" to those of a higher class than them. And even then, the Bible says that after 6 years they are free and you must compensate them for their work. It wasn't race based like what the US did to black people. It wasn't a "you're beneath me and I'm going to make you my slave". Actually the Bible condemns slavery for how we know it and race based slavery and those who may steal someone and sell them, that they should be put to death (Exodus 21:6) and in the New Testament slave traders are considered ungodly and sinful.rgambs said:
It's ok, it's just on one side of a demarcating line of civilization that I hopeAnnafalk said:
Freedom of speech and religion is a basic right. I haven't tried to convince anyone anything, just sharing my beliefs and talking should be ok, why enter this thread otherwise.rgambs said:
It isn't wrong to have beliefs, it is wrong to use those beliefs (which aren't supported by credible evidence) to influence the world and other people's lives.Annafalk said:Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
If I believe tomorrow won't come, that's fine for me.
But if I believe that and I go out convincing people to believe as I do, I can have intended or unintended consequences. Maybe people with darkness in their hearts act out their sick desires, maybe people spend all their money, etc.
It works the same way if I go out and convince people that they will live forever in paradise. Maybe they will take this fleeting life for granted and waste it.
If I believe an invisible man in the sky thinks a man can't love another man... whatever, that's weird, but whatever.
If I say so out loud, if I join an organisation which says so out loud, I am crossing a line which is not fucking cool. that humanity will someday leave behind.
Then we can stop trying to determine right and wrong from ancient texts and start our determination with the existence of suffering and go from there.
The Bible condones, endorses, and codifies slavery as acceptable, why do you differ in opinion with your Holy Text?
You know that slavery is wrong and produces suffering is the answer.
If that standard were to be expanded fully, the Holy Texts will fall away as the silly, archaic, pieces of trash that they are.
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PJS and often - I do hear you and I do agree with you I do know I'm way out on a limb and do understand billions of years past before the most recent hundreds of thousands of years it took to the most recent what 6000 of what humans are now. I just was thinking with my imagination wondering why nothing else is changing so drastically. But I do get what you're all putting down in terms of evolution.Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.0 -
Sorry, but that's bullshit.ponytd said:
Slavery in biblical times was not the same slavery as the last few hundred years. It was more of an economic status. To pay off debts, people became "enslaved" to someone else to work off their debt. Some people sold themselves as "slaves" so they could be taken care of because they were poor or had no skill they could make a living off of. Even in the New Testament, some higher class people were "slaves" to those of a higher class than them. And even then, the Bible says that after 6 years they are free and you must compensate them for their work. It wasn't race based like what the US did to black people. It wasn't a "you're beneath me and I'm going to make you my slave". Actually the Bible condemns slavery for how we know it and race based slavery and those who may steal someone and sell them, that they should be put to death (Exodus 21:6) and in the New Testament slave traders are considered ungodly and sinful.rgambs said:
It's ok, it's just on one side of a demarcating line of civilization that I hopeAnnafalk said:
Freedom of speech and religion is a basic right. I haven't tried to convince anyone anything, just sharing my beliefs and talking should be ok, why enter this thread otherwise.rgambs said:
It isn't wrong to have beliefs, it is wrong to use those beliefs (which aren't supported by credible evidence) to influence the world and other people's lives.Annafalk said:Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
If I believe tomorrow won't come, that's fine for me.
But if I believe that and I go out convincing people to believe as I do, I can have intended or unintended consequences. Maybe people with darkness in their hearts act out their sick desires, maybe people spend all their money, etc.
It works the same way if I go out and convince people that they will live forever in paradise. Maybe they will take this fleeting life for granted and waste it.
If I believe an invisible man in the sky thinks a man can't love another man... whatever, that's weird, but whatever.
If I say so out loud, if I join an organisation which says so out loud, I am crossing a line which is not fucking cool. that humanity will someday leave behind.
Then we can stop trying to determine right and wrong from ancient texts and start our determination with the existence of suffering and go from there.
The Bible condones, endorses, and codifies slavery as acceptable, why do you differ in opinion with your Holy Text?
You know that slavery is wrong and produces suffering is the answer.
If that standard were to be expanded fully, the Holy Texts will fall away as the silly, archaic, pieces of trash that they are.
It's not a coincidence that it's the same defense taken up by white supremacists about racial slavery in America.
"Some slaves had a decent life so slavery isn't so bad."
It doesn't hold up to historical scrutiny, and it sure as hell doesn't hold up within the Bible, where slavery and rape and murder is groovy, as long as it's the heathen others that are the victims.
You think the tens of thousands of little girls that were stolen by Moses' army (with God's consent) to be raped until dead or discarded felt like "economic slaves"?
Exodus 21:20
If you beat a slave to death you will be punished, if he gets up after a few days it's ok because they are your property.
I'm sure those slaves were super keen on their "economic arrangement".
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
And yes others parts of the universe. Thank you for that. Good point.Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.0 -
RYME said:
I think you meant to say, "an interesting obfuscation and disinformation strategy on the slavery issue"
Here is an interesting take on the slavery issue.rgambs said:
It's ok, it's just on one side of a demarcating line of civilization that I hopeAnnafalk said:
Freedom of speech and religion is a basic right. I haven't tried to convince anyone anything, just sharing my beliefs and talking should be ok, why enter this thread otherwise.rgambs said:
It isn't wrong to have beliefs, it is wrong to use those beliefs (which aren't supported by credible evidence) to influence the world and other people's lives.Annafalk said:Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
If I believe tomorrow won't come, that's fine for me.
But if I believe that and I go out convincing people to believe as I do, I can have intended or unintended consequences. Maybe people with darkness in their hearts act out their sick desires, maybe people spend all their money, etc.
It works the same way if I go out and convince people that they will live forever in paradise. Maybe they will take this fleeting life for granted and waste it.
If I believe an invisible man in the sky thinks a man can't love another man... whatever, that's weird, but whatever.
If I say so out loud, if I join an organisation which says so out loud, I am crossing a line which is not fucking cool. that humanity will someday leave behind.
Then we can stop trying to determine right and wrong from ancient texts and start our determination with the existence of suffering and go from there.
The Bible condones, endorses, and codifies slavery as acceptable, why do you differ in opinion with your Holy Text?
You know that slavery is wrong and produces suffering is the answer.
If that standard were to be expanded fully, the Holy Texts will fall away as the silly, archaic, pieces of trash that they are.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.htmlMonkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Humans babies are still formed from stardust every time they are conceived.
The entire planet is made from stardust, and every living creatures is made from the "ingredients" that a body gathers to create another creature.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
FoxyRedLa said:Why did evolution stop? No more mutations?
Evolution has not stopped. Take a look at yourself for example.
You have evolved everyday since you were born. You don't look like you did when you were 5 and you certainly won't look like you do now when you are 90. All those mutations before what your are today existed at one time but are no longer here.
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I honestly don't know if you're being serious, joking, or trolling here.PJfanwillneverleave1 said:FoxyRedLa said:Why did evolution stop? No more mutations?
Evolution has not stopped. Take a look at yourself for example.
You have evolved everyday since you were born. You don't look like you did when you were 5 and you certainly won't look like you do now when you are 90. All those mutations before what your are today existed at one time but are no longer here.
I think joking? But just in case you are serious.... aging and evolution obviously aren't the same thing at all.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
^^^
Trying to illustrate a point that many people want to see evidence of the intermediates. Like the creature that first walked out of the sea, etc. Let's just say there were no cameras, how do you prove to people there was a little 5yr old you running around way back when.
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