Donald Trump

PJ_Soul · July 2017

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

All things being similar, I'd probably give a bump to an Art History major over a business major when hiring.

All other things being equal, I wouldn't. But it depends on the role.

Which brings up a good point. I'm looking for someone who can look at a problem differently and access a range of thinking and communication styles.

Depending on the position, liberal arts majors don't do too bad. They start out a little behind, but eventually catch up to other college majors. Interesting article here:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2015/11/13/liberal-arts-degrees-critics/?source=dam

I agree.. I think Art History is a little bit of a stretch, but someone with a liberal arts major can usually construct a complete sentence, which is more than can be said about some degrees. At the end of the day, people that are motivated, positive, able to think in an integrated way and are persuasive can succeed at most "business management" jobs. Some jobs are specialized of course and that's where I get into my statement about funding "in need" jobs. They aren't marketing and business admin jobs. They are applied math, engineering fields, etc. An Art History major would have a tough time being successful in such a field.

Why are we even talking business degrees? Personally I would focus on Engineering/Science degrees at universities and trades at 2 year.

I don;t have anything against someone following their passion and we certainly need all types. But, I don;t think you have a human right to pursue whatever degree you want in college and have someone else pick up the bill. I think the areas the country is in need of should receive the support.

And I'm sorry I took us away from the topic...so back to Trump. His comments to Brigitte Macron are par for the course from him. The sad thing is in his mind, he was doing nothing wrong. That him commenting about her physical appearance is a true compliment because a woman's physical appearance is the most important aspect and he is obviously the best judge. So him giving his approval was a tremendous compliment for Brigitte.

Yeah, I didn't even realize that anyone was talking about business degrees. Most of those are a bit of a joke as far as personal success goes. I was also assuming we were talking about math, science, computer programming, med school, nursing school, engineering, and the trades. By the way, arts degrees include studies in Economics, languages, psychology, humanities, sociology, anthropology, political science, international studies, public policy, labour studies, gerontology, criminology, and urban studies. Stupid useless arts degrees, right?? I totally agree that it would be a violation of rights to favour particular studies over others in terms of tuition costs. The way you promote particular areas of study is to control funding in various ways, not to ding particular students directly and not others. That's crazy talk.

I don't think anyone criticized Liberal Arts degrees as a whole, rather that if government is going to physically pay tuition, there should be a societal need. Doesn't matter to me if it's an art or a STEM. However as we sit here, we have 6MM jobs in the US unfilled (many of the STEM oriented), many because our citizens don't have the skills to fill them.

That still seems like a really scary idea. As mentioned, it seems to violate student rights. There are plenty of other ways to promote in-demand areas. This varying tuition support based on area of study idea is the worst idea possible. And as Go Beavers said, there is a societal need for liberal arts degrees. I don't understand your mentality here at all - I have to assume you don't understand the importance of the liberals arts and the role they have in society. Nobody is suggesting that STEM oriented jobs don't need to be filled. You know how a lot of countries fill jobs in the way you're talking about? A good education system that doesn't punish students and good immigration policies.

mrussel1 · July 2017

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

All things being similar, I'd probably give a bump to an Art History major over a business major when hiring.

All other things being equal, I wouldn't. But it depends on the role.

Which brings up a good point. I'm looking for someone who can look at a problem differently and access a range of thinking and communication styles.

Depending on the position, liberal arts majors don't do too bad. They start out a little behind, but eventually catch up to other college majors. Interesting article here:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2015/11/13/liberal-arts-degrees-critics/?source=dam

I agree.. I think Art History is a little bit of a stretch, but someone with a liberal arts major can usually construct a complete sentence, which is more than can be said about some degrees. At the end of the day, people that are motivated, positive, able to think in an integrated way and are persuasive can succeed at most "business management" jobs. Some jobs are specialized of course and that's where I get into my statement about funding "in need" jobs. They aren't marketing and business admin jobs. They are applied math, engineering fields, etc. An Art History major would have a tough time being successful in such a field.

Why are we even talking business degrees? Personally I would focus on Engineering/Science degrees at universities and trades at 2 year.

I don;t have anything against someone following their passion and we certainly need all types. But, I don;t think you have a human right to pursue whatever degree you want in college and have someone else pick up the bill. I think the areas the country is in need of should receive the support.

And I'm sorry I took us away from the topic...so back to Trump. His comments to Brigitte Macron are par for the course from him. The sad thing is in his mind, he was doing nothing wrong. That him commenting about her physical appearance is a true compliment because a woman's physical appearance is the most important aspect and he is obviously the best judge. So him giving his approval was a tremendous compliment for Brigitte.

Yeah, I didn't even realize that anyone was talking about business degrees. Most of those are a bit of a joke as far as personal success goes. I was also assuming we were talking about math, science, computer programming, med school, nursing school, engineering, and the trades. By the way, arts degrees include studies in Economics, languages, psychology, humanities, sociology, anthropology, political science, international studies, public policy, labour studies, gerontology, criminology, and urban studies. Stupid useless arts degrees, right?? I totally agree that it would be a violation of rights to favour particular studies over others in terms of tuition costs. The way you promote particular areas of study is to control funding in various ways, not to ding particular students directly and not others. That's crazy talk.

I don't think anyone criticized Liberal Arts degrees as a whole, rather that if government is going to physically pay tuition, there should be a societal need. Doesn't matter to me if it's an art or a STEM. However as we sit here, we have 6MM jobs in the US unfilled (many of the STEM oriented), many because our citizens don't have the skills to fill them.

There is a societal need for liberal arts majors.

Let me rephrase for both you and @PJ_Soul because maybe I'm being misunderstood, or maybe we just disagree. I'm not talking about a societal need in general. Of course there is a societal need for all degrees, BS or BA.. I'm talking about specific needs in the job market to close existing gaps. The goal is to influence new students to take on degrees they might not ordinarily not do because of lack of understanding or lack of interest. If we start running short of history teachers (like we are on electricians today), then the gov't can shift and reimburse history degrees until we close the gap.
I'm not sure why this is controversial to you guys. You apply this theory in your every day lives. Again, I'm saying this as a person who has 2 liberal arts degrees. I'm not anti-LA, but I'm pro-pragmatism.

Go Beavers · July 2017

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

And Sander's plan of taxpayer funded tuition would have helped the current problem of jobs left open due to lack of specific skills. It could also have been applied to a specific trade school so people with almost zip income could eventually fill those open jobs rather than sit idle in an low wage, unskilled position.

The problem that exists, and what the left always fails to address, is that they don't do anything to cap the problem and control it. Their answer is to just throw more money at it, but they never stop the runaway train.

Someone has said it and that is until they take away the government backed gaurantee the schools have no incentive to control costs.

But really this deserves a thread of its own.

Aren't you taking away the free market side of the equation, which is students are choosing to go to college even at the current cost. They still see a value in it, regardless of their interest rate on their loan.

HughFreakingDillon · July 2017

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

All things being similar, I'd probably give a bump to an Art History major over a business major when hiring.

All other things being equal, I wouldn't. But it depends on the role.

Which brings up a good point. I'm looking for someone who can look at a problem differently and access a range of thinking and communication styles.

Depending on the position, liberal arts majors don't do too bad. They start out a little behind, but eventually catch up to other college majors. Interesting article here:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2015/11/13/liberal-arts-degrees-critics/?source=dam

I agree.. I think Art History is a little bit of a stretch, but someone with a liberal arts major can usually construct a complete sentence, which is more than can be said about some degrees. At the end of the day, people that are motivated, positive, able to think in an integrated way and are persuasive can succeed at most "business management" jobs. Some jobs are specialized of course and that's where I get into my statement about funding "in need" jobs. They aren't marketing and business admin jobs. They are applied math, engineering fields, etc. An Art History major would have a tough time being successful in such a field.

Why are we even talking business degrees? Personally I would focus on Engineering/Science degrees at universities and trades at 2 year.

I don;t have anything against someone following their passion and we certainly need all types. But, I don;t think you have a human right to pursue whatever degree you want in college and have someone else pick up the bill. I think the areas the country is in need of should receive the support.

And I'm sorry I took us away from the topic...so back to Trump. His comments to Brigitte Macron are par for the course from him. The sad thing is in his mind, he was doing nothing wrong. That him commenting about her physical appearance is a true compliment because a woman's physical appearance is the most important aspect and he is obviously the best judge. So him giving his approval was a tremendous compliment for Brigitte.

Yeah, I didn't even realize that anyone was talking about business degrees. Most of those are a bit of a joke as far as personal success goes. I was also assuming we were talking about math, science, computer programming, med school, nursing school, engineering, and the trades. By the way, arts degrees include studies in Economics, languages, psychology, humanities, sociology, anthropology, political science, international studies, public policy, labour studies, gerontology, criminology, and urban studies. Stupid useless arts degrees, right?? I totally agree that it would be a violation of rights to favour particular studies over others in terms of tuition costs. The way you promote particular areas of study is to control funding in various ways, not to ding particular students directly and not others. That's crazy talk.

I don't think anyone criticized Liberal Arts degrees as a whole, rather that if government is going to physically pay tuition, there should be a societal need. Doesn't matter to me if it's an art or a STEM. However as we sit here, we have 6MM jobs in the US unfilled (many of the STEM oriented), many because our citizens don't have the skills to fill them.

There is a societal need for liberal arts majors.

Let me rephrase for both you and @PJ_Soul because maybe I'm being misunderstood, or maybe we just disagree. I'm not talking about a societal need in general. Of course there is a societal need for all degrees, BS or BA.. I'm talking about specific needs in the job market to close existing gaps. The goal is to influence new students to take on degrees they might not ordinarily not do because of lack of understanding or lack of interest. If we start running short of history teachers (like we are on electricians today), then the gov't can shift and reimburse history degrees until we close the gap.
I'm not sure why this is controversial to you guys. You apply this theory in your every day lives. Again, I'm saying this as a person who has 2 liberal arts degrees. I'm not anti-LA, but I'm pro-pragmatism.

but if you give the government the power to start influencing what people study monetarily, blammo, you've just created a new type of lobbyist.

mrussel1 · July 2017

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

And Sander's plan of taxpayer funded tuition would have helped the current problem of jobs left open due to lack of specific skills. It could also have been applied to a specific trade school so people with almost zip income could eventually fill those open jobs rather than sit idle in an low wage, unskilled position.

The problem that exists, and what the left always fails to address, is that they don't do anything to cap the problem and control it. Their answer is to just throw more money at it, but they never stop the runaway train.

Someone has said it and that is until they take away the government backed gaurantee the schools have no incentive to control costs.

But really this deserves a thread of its own.

Aren't you taking away the free market side of the equation, which is students are choosing to go to college even at the current cost. They still see a value in it, regardless of their interest rate on their loan.

Here is the law of unintended consequences at work.
1. We think college is too expensive
2. A solution to get the colleges to bring down the cost is to reduce the supply (the number of students)
3. Kill low interest student loans, reducing the number of people who can afford to attend college. It would take several years for a college to really feel this effect, so you now have the first generation...probably ever... that has a lower college participation rate than the previous.
4. Tuition comes down! Great!!
5. The US is even less competitive on the world stage because our education gap just widened.

Sounds like a great plan.

PJ_Soul · July 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

All things being similar, I'd probably give a bump to an Art History major over a business major when hiring.

All other things being equal, I wouldn't. But it depends on the role.

Which brings up a good point. I'm looking for someone who can look at a problem differently and access a range of thinking and communication styles.

Depending on the position, liberal arts majors don't do too bad. They start out a little behind, but eventually catch up to other college majors. Interesting article here:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2015/11/13/liberal-arts-degrees-critics/?source=dam

I agree.. I think Art History is a little bit of a stretch, but someone with a liberal arts major can usually construct a complete sentence, which is more than can be said about some degrees. At the end of the day, people that are motivated, positive, able to think in an integrated way and are persuasive can succeed at most "business management" jobs. Some jobs are specialized of course and that's where I get into my statement about funding "in need" jobs. They aren't marketing and business admin jobs. They are applied math, engineering fields, etc. An Art History major would have a tough time being successful in such a field.

Why are we even talking business degrees? Personally I would focus on Engineering/Science degrees at universities and trades at 2 year.

I don;t have anything against someone following their passion and we certainly need all types. But, I don;t think you have a human right to pursue whatever degree you want in college and have someone else pick up the bill. I think the areas the country is in need of should receive the support.

And I'm sorry I took us away from the topic...so back to Trump. His comments to Brigitte Macron are par for the course from him. The sad thing is in his mind, he was doing nothing wrong. That him commenting about her physical appearance is a true compliment because a woman's physical appearance is the most important aspect and he is obviously the best judge. So him giving his approval was a tremendous compliment for Brigitte.

Yeah, I didn't even realize that anyone was talking about business degrees. Most of those are a bit of a joke as far as personal success goes. I was also assuming we were talking about math, science, computer programming, med school, nursing school, engineering, and the trades. By the way, arts degrees include studies in Economics, languages, psychology, humanities, sociology, anthropology, political science, international studies, public policy, labour studies, gerontology, criminology, and urban studies. Stupid useless arts degrees, right?? I totally agree that it would be a violation of rights to favour particular studies over others in terms of tuition costs. The way you promote particular areas of study is to control funding in various ways, not to ding particular students directly and not others. That's crazy talk.

I don't think anyone criticized Liberal Arts degrees as a whole, rather that if government is going to physically pay tuition, there should be a societal need. Doesn't matter to me if it's an art or a STEM. However as we sit here, we have 6MM jobs in the US unfilled (many of the STEM oriented), many because our citizens don't have the skills to fill them.

There is a societal need for liberal arts majors.

Let me rephrase for both you and @PJ_Soul because maybe I'm being misunderstood, or maybe we just disagree. I'm not talking about a societal need in general. Of course there is a societal need for all degrees, BS or BA.. I'm talking about specific needs in the job market to close existing gaps. The goal is to influence new students to take on degrees they might not ordinarily not do because of lack of understanding or lack of interest. If we start running short of history teachers (like we are on electricians today), then the gov't can shift and reimburse history degrees until we close the gap.
I'm not sure why this is controversial to you guys. You apply this theory in your every day lives. Again, I'm saying this as a person who has 2 liberal arts degrees. I'm not anti-LA, but I'm pro-pragmatism.

but if you give the government the power to start influencing what people study monetarily, blammo, you've just created a new type of lobbyist.

Right. And to charge some students with particular interests but not other students with other interests, that is the government controlling what people choose to study through financial persecution, essentially. Again, there are tons of ways to promote certain areas of study. Fucking with student-paid tuition fees to get it done is literally the worst, most damaging, and most unfair way to go about it. I am also pro-pragmatism. I just don't think your theory is pragmatic.

cincybearcat · July 2017

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

All things being similar, I'd probably give a bump to an Art History major over a business major when hiring.

All other things being equal, I wouldn't. But it depends on the role.

Which brings up a good point. I'm looking for someone who can look at a problem differently and access a range of thinking and communication styles.

Depending on the position, liberal arts majors don't do too bad. They start out a little behind, but eventually catch up to other college majors. Interesting article here:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2015/11/13/liberal-arts-degrees-critics/?source=dam

I agree.. I think Art History is a little bit of a stretch, but someone with a liberal arts major can usually construct a complete sentence, which is more than can be said about some degrees. At the end of the day, people that are motivated, positive, able to think in an integrated way and are persuasive can succeed at most "business management" jobs. Some jobs are specialized of course and that's where I get into my statement about funding "in need" jobs. They aren't marketing and business admin jobs. They are applied math, engineering fields, etc. An Art History major would have a tough time being successful in such a field.

Why are we even talking business degrees? Personally I would focus on Engineering/Science degrees at universities and trades at 2 year.

I don;t have anything against someone following their passion and we certainly need all types. But, I don;t think you have a human right to pursue whatever degree you want in college and have someone else pick up the bill. I think the areas the country is in need of should receive the support.

And I'm sorry I took us away from the topic...so back to Trump. His comments to Brigitte Macron are par for the course from him. The sad thing is in his mind, he was doing nothing wrong. That him commenting about her physical appearance is a true compliment because a woman's physical appearance is the most important aspect and he is obviously the best judge. So him giving his approval was a tremendous compliment for Brigitte.

Yeah, I didn't even realize that anyone was talking about business degrees. Most of those are a bit of a joke as far as personal success goes. I was also assuming we were talking about math, science, computer programming, med school, nursing school, engineering, and the trades. By the way, arts degrees include studies in Economics, languages, psychology, humanities, sociology, anthropology, political science, international studies, public policy, labour studies, gerontology, criminology, and urban studies. Stupid useless arts degrees, right?? I totally agree that it would be a violation of rights to favour particular studies over others in terms of tuition costs. The way you promote particular areas of study is to control funding in various ways, not to ding particular students directly and not others. That's crazy talk.

I don't think anyone criticized Liberal Arts degrees as a whole, rather that if government is going to physically pay tuition, there should be a societal need. Doesn't matter to me if it's an art or a STEM. However as we sit here, we have 6MM jobs in the US unfilled (many of the STEM oriented), many because our citizens don't have the skills to fill them.

There is a societal need for liberal arts majors.

Let me rephrase for both you and @PJ_Soul because maybe I'm being misunderstood, or maybe we just disagree. I'm not talking about a societal need in general. Of course there is a societal need for all degrees, BS or BA.. I'm talking about specific needs in the job market to close existing gaps. The goal is to influence new students to take on degrees they might not ordinarily not do because of lack of understanding or lack of interest. If we start running short of history teachers (like we are on electricians today), then the gov't can shift and reimburse history degrees until we close the gap.
I'm not sure why this is controversial to you guys. You apply this theory in your every day lives. Again, I'm saying this as a person who has 2 liberal arts degrees. I'm not anti-LA, but I'm pro-pragmatism.

I agree.

And this kinda happens in a small way through government funded organizations that offer grants. I received my master's fully funded by an organization that received government aid and uses it to promote people studying their fields of need.

PJ_Soul · July 2017

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

All things being similar, I'd probably give a bump to an Art History major over a business major when hiring.

All other things being equal, I wouldn't. But it depends on the role.

Which brings up a good point. I'm looking for someone who can look at a problem differently and access a range of thinking and communication styles.

Depending on the position, liberal arts majors don't do too bad. They start out a little behind, but eventually catch up to other college majors. Interesting article here:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2015/11/13/liberal-arts-degrees-critics/?source=dam

I agree.. I think Art History is a little bit of a stretch, but someone with a liberal arts major can usually construct a complete sentence, which is more than can be said about some degrees. At the end of the day, people that are motivated, positive, able to think in an integrated way and are persuasive can succeed at most "business management" jobs. Some jobs are specialized of course and that's where I get into my statement about funding "in need" jobs. They aren't marketing and business admin jobs. They are applied math, engineering fields, etc. An Art History major would have a tough time being successful in such a field.

Why are we even talking business degrees? Personally I would focus on Engineering/Science degrees at universities and trades at 2 year.

I don;t have anything against someone following their passion and we certainly need all types. But, I don;t think you have a human right to pursue whatever degree you want in college and have someone else pick up the bill. I think the areas the country is in need of should receive the support.

And I'm sorry I took us away from the topic...so back to Trump. His comments to Brigitte Macron are par for the course from him. The sad thing is in his mind, he was doing nothing wrong. That him commenting about her physical appearance is a true compliment because a woman's physical appearance is the most important aspect and he is obviously the best judge. So him giving his approval was a tremendous compliment for Brigitte.

Yeah, I didn't even realize that anyone was talking about business degrees. Most of those are a bit of a joke as far as personal success goes. I was also assuming we were talking about math, science, computer programming, med school, nursing school, engineering, and the trades. By the way, arts degrees include studies in Economics, languages, psychology, humanities, sociology, anthropology, political science, international studies, public policy, labour studies, gerontology, criminology, and urban studies. Stupid useless arts degrees, right?? I totally agree that it would be a violation of rights to favour particular studies over others in terms of tuition costs. The way you promote particular areas of study is to control funding in various ways, not to ding particular students directly and not others. That's crazy talk.

I don't think anyone criticized Liberal Arts degrees as a whole, rather that if government is going to physically pay tuition, there should be a societal need. Doesn't matter to me if it's an art or a STEM. However as we sit here, we have 6MM jobs in the US unfilled (many of the STEM oriented), many because our citizens don't have the skills to fill them.

There is a societal need for liberal arts majors.

Let me rephrase for both you and @PJ_Soul because maybe I'm being misunderstood, or maybe we just disagree. I'm not talking about a societal need in general. Of course there is a societal need for all degrees, BS or BA.. I'm talking about specific needs in the job market to close existing gaps. The goal is to influence new students to take on degrees they might not ordinarily not do because of lack of understanding or lack of interest. If we start running short of history teachers (like we are on electricians today), then the gov't can shift and reimburse history degrees until we close the gap.
I'm not sure why this is controversial to you guys. You apply this theory in your every day lives. Again, I'm saying this as a person who has 2 liberal arts degrees. I'm not anti-LA, but I'm pro-pragmatism.

I agree.

And this kinda happens in a small way through government funded organizations that offer grants. I received my master's fully funded by an organization that received government aid and uses it to promote people studying their fields of need.

No, that's not the same. Students receiving money to help pay tuition through grants is not equivalent to some students paying no tuition and some students paying tuition, depending on their field of study. Especially since most grants are partially decided based upon financial need, not only area of study.

cincybearcat · July 2017

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

All things being similar, I'd probably give a bump to an Art History major over a business major when hiring.

All other things being equal, I wouldn't. But it depends on the role.

Which brings up a good point. I'm looking for someone who can look at a problem differently and access a range of thinking and communication styles.

Depending on the position, liberal arts majors don't do too bad. They start out a little behind, but eventually catch up to other college majors. Interesting article here:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2015/11/13/liberal-arts-degrees-critics/?source=dam

I agree.. I think Art History is a little bit of a stretch, but someone with a liberal arts major can usually construct a complete sentence, which is more than can be said about some degrees. At the end of the day, people that are motivated, positive, able to think in an integrated way and are persuasive can succeed at most "business management" jobs. Some jobs are specialized of course and that's where I get into my statement about funding "in need" jobs. They aren't marketing and business admin jobs. They are applied math, engineering fields, etc. An Art History major would have a tough time being successful in such a field.

Why are we even talking business degrees? Personally I would focus on Engineering/Science degrees at universities and trades at 2 year.

I don;t have anything against someone following their passion and we certainly need all types. But, I don;t think you have a human right to pursue whatever degree you want in college and have someone else pick up the bill. I think the areas the country is in need of should receive the support.

And I'm sorry I took us away from the topic...so back to Trump. His comments to Brigitte Macron are par for the course from him. The sad thing is in his mind, he was doing nothing wrong. That him commenting about her physical appearance is a true compliment because a woman's physical appearance is the most important aspect and he is obviously the best judge. So him giving his approval was a tremendous compliment for Brigitte.

Yeah, I didn't even realize that anyone was talking about business degrees. Most of those are a bit of a joke as far as personal success goes. I was also assuming we were talking about math, science, computer programming, med school, nursing school, engineering, and the trades. By the way, arts degrees include studies in Economics, languages, psychology, humanities, sociology, anthropology, political science, international studies, public policy, labour studies, gerontology, criminology, and urban studies. Stupid useless arts degrees, right?? I totally agree that it would be a violation of rights to favour particular studies over others in terms of tuition costs. The way you promote particular areas of study is to control funding in various ways, not to ding particular students directly and not others. That's crazy talk.

I don't think anyone criticized Liberal Arts degrees as a whole, rather that if government is going to physically pay tuition, there should be a societal need. Doesn't matter to me if it's an art or a STEM. However as we sit here, we have 6MM jobs in the US unfilled (many of the STEM oriented), many because our citizens don't have the skills to fill them.

There is a societal need for liberal arts majors.

Let me rephrase for both you and @PJ_Soul because maybe I'm being misunderstood, or maybe we just disagree. I'm not talking about a societal need in general. Of course there is a societal need for all degrees, BS or BA.. I'm talking about specific needs in the job market to close existing gaps. The goal is to influence new students to take on degrees they might not ordinarily not do because of lack of understanding or lack of interest. If we start running short of history teachers (like we are on electricians today), then the gov't can shift and reimburse history degrees until we close the gap.
I'm not sure why this is controversial to you guys. You apply this theory in your every day lives. Again, I'm saying this as a person who has 2 liberal arts degrees. I'm not anti-LA, but I'm pro-pragmatism.

I agree.

And this kinda happens in a small way through government funded organizations that offer grants. I received my master's fully funded by an organization that received government aid and uses it to promote people studying their fields of need.

No, that's not the same. Students receiving money to help pay tuition through grants is not equivalent to some students paying no tuition and some students paying tuition, depending on their field of study. Especially since most grants are partially decided based upon financial need, not only area of study.

I used the wrong words. I was paid a stipend and got free tuition because of the field I was studying. Not based on need at all.

And I never said 'no tuition" as I think that is a terrible idea. The student must be invested or it becomes like high school with drop-outs.

Anyhow, I'm just going to agree to disagree as I really don't understand resistance to the government supporting career paths that the country current lacks the # of people with necessary skills.

PJ_Soul · July 2017

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

All things being similar, I'd probably give a bump to an Art History major over a business major when hiring.

All other things being equal, I wouldn't. But it depends on the role.

Which brings up a good point. I'm looking for someone who can look at a problem differently and access a range of thinking and communication styles.

Depending on the position, liberal arts majors don't do too bad. They start out a little behind, but eventually catch up to other college majors. Interesting article here:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2015/11/13/liberal-arts-degrees-critics/?source=dam

I agree.. I think Art History is a little bit of a stretch, but someone with a liberal arts major can usually construct a complete sentence, which is more than can be said about some degrees. At the end of the day, people that are motivated, positive, able to think in an integrated way and are persuasive can succeed at most "business management" jobs. Some jobs are specialized of course and that's where I get into my statement about funding "in need" jobs. They aren't marketing and business admin jobs. They are applied math, engineering fields, etc. An Art History major would have a tough time being successful in such a field.

Why are we even talking business degrees? Personally I would focus on Engineering/Science degrees at universities and trades at 2 year.

I don;t have anything against someone following their passion and we certainly need all types. But, I don;t think you have a human right to pursue whatever degree you want in college and have someone else pick up the bill. I think the areas the country is in need of should receive the support.

And I'm sorry I took us away from the topic...so back to Trump. His comments to Brigitte Macron are par for the course from him. The sad thing is in his mind, he was doing nothing wrong. That him commenting about her physical appearance is a true compliment because a woman's physical appearance is the most important aspect and he is obviously the best judge. So him giving his approval was a tremendous compliment for Brigitte.

Yeah, I didn't even realize that anyone was talking about business degrees. Most of those are a bit of a joke as far as personal success goes. I was also assuming we were talking about math, science, computer programming, med school, nursing school, engineering, and the trades. By the way, arts degrees include studies in Economics, languages, psychology, humanities, sociology, anthropology, political science, international studies, public policy, labour studies, gerontology, criminology, and urban studies. Stupid useless arts degrees, right?? I totally agree that it would be a violation of rights to favour particular studies over others in terms of tuition costs. The way you promote particular areas of study is to control funding in various ways, not to ding particular students directly and not others. That's crazy talk.

I don't think anyone criticized Liberal Arts degrees as a whole, rather that if government is going to physically pay tuition, there should be a societal need. Doesn't matter to me if it's an art or a STEM. However as we sit here, we have 6MM jobs in the US unfilled (many of the STEM oriented), many because our citizens don't have the skills to fill them.

There is a societal need for liberal arts majors.

Let me rephrase for both you and @PJ_Soul because maybe I'm being misunderstood, or maybe we just disagree. I'm not talking about a societal need in general. Of course there is a societal need for all degrees, BS or BA.. I'm talking about specific needs in the job market to close existing gaps. The goal is to influence new students to take on degrees they might not ordinarily not do because of lack of understanding or lack of interest. If we start running short of history teachers (like we are on electricians today), then the gov't can shift and reimburse history degrees until we close the gap.
I'm not sure why this is controversial to you guys. You apply this theory in your every day lives. Again, I'm saying this as a person who has 2 liberal arts degrees. I'm not anti-LA, but I'm pro-pragmatism.

I agree.

And this kinda happens in a small way through government funded organizations that offer grants. I received my master's fully funded by an organization that received government aid and uses it to promote people studying their fields of need.

No, that's not the same. Students receiving money to help pay tuition through grants is not equivalent to some students paying no tuition and some students paying tuition, depending on their field of study. Especially since most grants are partially decided based upon financial need, not only area of study.

I used the wrong words. I was paid a stipend and got free tuition because of the field I was studying. Not based on need at all.

And I never said 'no tuition" as I think that is a terrible idea. The student must be invested or it becomes like high school with drop-outs.

Anyhow, I'm just going to agree to disagree as I really don't understand resistance to the government supporting career paths that the country current lacks the # of people with necessary skills.

Yeah sure, agree to disagree. But FWIW, there are other countries that have free post-secondary education, and they definitely don't have problems as far as students not being invested goes. Of course, their secondary education systems are way way better too, so that probably makes the difference. I know that in France, high school students are required to choose their area of study when they are about 14 or 15, in 9th grade. They do that so that the students can become prepared and invested long before they even get to university.

Smellyman · July 2017

You know what is good? Somebody with talent and interest in arts to be an arts major. You know what is bad? Somebody with a talent and interest in arts to be an Engineering major.

mrussel1 · July 2017

Smellyman said:

You know what is good? Somebody with talent and interest in arts to be an arts major. You know what is bad? Somebody with a talent and interest in arts to be an Engineering major.

It's a free country, you can do what you want. Doesn't mean you'll be gainfully employed.