Multiple Fatalities- Ariana Grande Concert

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  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    riley540 said:
    I think the religious texts are all pretty fucked. But most Christian people deny the shifty stuff.


    you don't think most Muslims deny the shitty stuff? a few assholes speak for billions?
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,554
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,407
    PJ_Soul said:
    riley540 said:
    I think the religious texts are all pretty fucked. But most Christian people deny the shifty stuff. Lots of good charity work done from all religions which I appreciate. Just can't get into the cultu judgey thing. 

    I used to attend a baptist church that was pretty nutty, but the amount of work they did for less fortunate people locally and globally was outstanding. So I can't dog them too hard. Great people stuck in some old school beliefs. 
    You don't need religion to do those good things though. Atheists do good work for the less fortunate too. Religion is bullshit, and I think attributing good acts to the existence of religion is like saying all of those people wouldn't help anyone if it weren't for their Church. Well, if that's true, they are actually jerks.
    I am genuinely intrigued to hear you say all religion is bullshit, but then in another thread you have mentioned it is rude for someone to wear a hat during the anthem. Generalizing that religion is bullshit is discrediting the good that it does for a lot of people who have nothing to do with violence, inequality or any other wrongful act. Some people have chosen religion as their form of community and that is great for them. Personally, not my thing, but the only one's who piss me off are the fanatics who seem to think it makes them better people or that they have some sort of higher moral ground. That can be said about most groups though. The Pearl Jam Ten Club is a group of people who mostly believe they are the best band ever, but among that same group are the detractors on both ends of the spectrum; the fanatics.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    No. There are not. There are good people within religions, but history has shown time and time again that religions are bad.

    Not only that... science has shown that there are no mythical figures that people waste their time praying to. We are flukes of nature. Once we eradicate ourselves... a new form of life will spring forth and, as dinosaurs and human beings did, eventually topple the fragile ecosystem of the earth becoming extinct themselves.

    Now with that said... what a great gift to be these 'flukes of nature'. Life is fantastic so enjoy it and don't tread on others as you do.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Go Beavers said:
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
    Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

    Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    tbergs said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    riley540 said:
    I think the religious texts are all pretty fucked. But most Christian people deny the shifty stuff. Lots of good charity work done from all religions which I appreciate. Just can't get into the cultu judgey thing. 

    I used to attend a baptist church that was pretty nutty, but the amount of work they did for less fortunate people locally and globally was outstanding. So I can't dog them too hard. Great people stuck in some old school beliefs. 
    You don't need religion to do those good things though. Atheists do good work for the less fortunate too. Religion is bullshit, and I think attributing good acts to the existence of religion is like saying all of those people wouldn't help anyone if it weren't for their Church. Well, if that's true, they are actually jerks.
    I am genuinely intrigued to hear you say all religion is bullshit, but then in another thread you have mentioned it is rude for someone to wear a hat during the anthem. Generalizing that religion is bullshit is discrediting the good that it does for a lot of people who have nothing to do with violence, inequality or any other wrongful act. Some people have chosen religion as their form of community and that is great for them. Personally, not my thing, but the only one's who piss me off are the fanatics who seem to think it makes them better people or that they have some sort of higher moral ground. That can be said about most groups though. The Pearl Jam Ten Club is a group of people who mostly believe they are the best band ever, but among that same group are the detractors on both ends of the spectrum; the fanatics.
    Your 10C idea has some merit.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Go Beavers said:
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
    Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

    Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.
    how is what he said "rushing" to defend it? can you describe what "rushing to defend" even means, and why you think that anyone defending anything you disagree with to be "rushing" to do so?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Go Beavers said:
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
    Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

    Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.
    yeah, because homosexuals' biggest issue over the past 100 years has been not getting a job at Tim Horton's because of too much "flair". 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Go Beavers said:
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
    Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

    Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.
    how is what he said "rushing" to defend it? can you describe what "rushing to defend" even means, and why you think that anyone defending anything you disagree with to be "rushing" to do so?
    Because any time anyone makes any legitimate critical remark towards Islam... he attempts to rationalize it. Keep up.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,554
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Go Beavers said:
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
    Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

    Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.
    It's not rushing to defend. It's perspective and also noting that culture and religion aren't always the same thing. Also, if you know any Christian fundamentalists, equality for gays and women isn't high on the list. 
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Go Beavers said:
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
    Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

    Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.
    yeah, because homosexuals' biggest issue over the past 100 years has been not getting a job at Tim Horton's because of too much "flair". 
    Homosexuals in North America fare about as well as they do in, oh... say Saudi Arabia? Is this what you are saying? Or are you saying forget the progress we have made and focus on when we treated gays really poorly because the 'now' counts for not?

    We aren't perfect, but we are a far cry from throwing gays off buildings, public stonings for women accused of adultery, or simply beating a woman to death because someone said she threw a Quran away.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Go Beavers said:
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
    Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

    Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.
    how is what he said "rushing" to defend it? can you describe what "rushing to defend" even means, and why you think that anyone defending anything you disagree with to be "rushing" to do so?
    Because any time anyone makes any legitimate critical remark towards Islam... he attempts to rationalize it. Keep up.
    I have kept up just fine thanks. 

    so the same, inverse argument could be made about you: rushing to criticize. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Go Beavers said:
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
    Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

    Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.
    yeah, because homosexuals' biggest issue over the past 100 years has been not getting a job at Tim Horton's because of too much "flair". 
    Homosexuals in North America fare about as well as they do in, oh... say Saudi Arabia? Is this what you are saying? Or are you saying forget the progress we have made and focus on when we treated gays really poorly because the 'now' counts for not?

    We aren't perfect, but we are a far cry from throwing gays off buildings, public stonings for women accused of adultery, or simply beating a woman to death because someone said she threw a Quran away.
    oh jesus, here we go. yep, that's exactly what I fucking said. 

    for fuck's sakes. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117

    the Islamic faith and its followers certainly have some issues to address... but so does the West

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131015-iraq-war-deaths-survey-2013/

  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    https://www.democracynow.org/2017/3/27/more_than_1_000_civilians_killed
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,554
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Go Beavers said:
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
    Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

    Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.
    how is what he said "rushing" to defend it? can you describe what "rushing to defend" even means, and why you think that anyone defending anything you disagree with to be "rushing" to do so?
    Because any time anyone makes any legitimate critical remark towards Islam... he attempts to rationalize it. Keep up.
    You may want to keep up. I haven't seen one reference to the Quran, which there would be if there was any ligitimate critique of Islam. I'm following along, and what I'm seeing is people parroting back fear based narratives that they are fed because they haven't done their own research on one of the world's major religions. 
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Go Beavers said:
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
    Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

    Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.
    yeah, because homosexuals' biggest issue over the past 100 years has been not getting a job at Tim Horton's because of too much "flair". 
    Homosexuals in North America fare about as well as they do in, oh... say Saudi Arabia? Is this what you are saying? Or are you saying forget the progress we have made and focus on when we treated gays really poorly because the 'now' counts for not?

    We aren't perfect, but we are a far cry from throwing gays off buildings, public stonings for women accused of adultery, or simply beating a woman to death because someone said she threw a Quran away.
    Are we?  Sodomy is still illegal in 14 states.  Matthew Shepard happened less than 20 years ago.  The US is not as progressive as we would like to think we are. 

    Also, ISIS 'reportedly' threw gays off roofs in Syria, not Saudi Arabia.  I'd like to see a citation there....
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    ^^^

    Um, apostasy is punished by death under Sharia Law.  Enough to drive one batty wouldn't you think?

  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    edited May 2017
    http://www.psr.org/assets/pdfs/body-count.pdf
    "This investigation comes to the conclusion that the war has, directly or indirectly, killed around 1 million people in Iraq, 220,000 in Afghanistan and 80,000 in Pakistan, i.e. a total of around 1.3 million. Not included in this figure are further war zones such as Yemen. The figure is approximately 10 times greater than that of which the public, experts and decision makers are aware of and propagated by the media and major NGOs. And this is only a conservative estimate. The total number of deaths in the three countries named above could also be in excess of 2 mil- lion, whereas a figure below 1 million is extremely unlikely."
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Go Beavers said:
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 
    Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

    Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.
    how is what he said "rushing" to defend it? can you describe what "rushing to defend" even means, and why you think that anyone defending anything you disagree with to be "rushing" to do so?
    Because any time anyone makes any legitimate critical remark towards Islam... he attempts to rationalize it. Keep up.
    I have kept up just fine thanks. 

    so the same, inverse argument could be made about you: rushing to criticize. 
    No.

    It's not even close. What are you talking about?

    First... there's the big stretch trying to suggest anti government types like Breivik (who isn't even a Christian) and McVeigh are 'Christian terrorists'.

    Second... even if one insisted on believing these acts by these idiots were borne from Christian ideals... they are isolated events and separated by decades of time- hardly anything at all like what we are experiencing by radical Islam in terms of persistence and methodology.

    Even in the best case scenario for someone badly wanting others to 'have the perspective' that Islamic terror has its close rivals.

    Third... when someone suggests the nationwide treatment of women and homosexuals is abhorrent... an immediate response is to claim that 'Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on'... so, in other words, it's no different there than here. Which... is wrong.
    "My brain's a good brain!"

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